The " war on the motorist"
Discussion
skyrover said:
A relatively small outlaw IMO for the best medical care in the world 
I realise you said it was your opinion so at this point I'm just being a troll, buuuut http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organiza...US are number 1 in spending but 38 in results. UK is number 18 but 26 in spending, who's really getting ripped off?
skyrover said:
A relatively small outlaw IMO for the best medical care in the world
You do have a point on University tuition fee's... they are very high.
Are you referring to the US system here?You do have a point on University tuition fee's... they are very high.
Here's how Forbes ranked the top 11:
1. United Kingdom
2. Switzerland
3. Sweden
4. Australia
5. Germany & Netherlands (tied)
7. New Zealand & Norway (tied)
9. France
10. Canada
11. United States
http://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunro/2014/06/16/u-...
EDIT// the Forbes article is from 2014, I had a look at the WHO rankings, but they were last done in 2,000
Motoring is cheap if you want it to be. My car gets 45 mpg all day long, tax is £145 a year and my insurance isn't much more. The car cost me about £3k and I've had it for getting on for 4 years.
Sure if you want to drive a flash car it can be expensive but is it much cheaper elsewhere except for oil rich Arab states or the US?
Sure if you want to drive a flash car it can be expensive but is it much cheaper elsewhere except for oil rich Arab states or the US?
skyrover said:
I can only comment on my personal experience, but I would never in a million years rank the UK system higher in terms of "quality of care"
The fact many American's are in poor health has little to do with their healthcare system and everything to do with lifestyle choices.
So what does that tell you?The fact many American's are in poor health has little to do with their healthcare system and everything to do with lifestyle choices.
That personal experience isn't good evidence of anything.
Who knew...
skyrover said:
I can only comment on my personal experience, but I would never in a million years rank the UK system higher in terms of "quality of care"
The fact many American's are in poor health has little to do with their healthcare system and everything to do with lifestyle choices.
This is complete bullsThe fact many American's are in poor health has little to do with their healthcare system and everything to do with lifestyle choices.
t.skyrover said:
Eski1991 said:
skyrover said:
The US average wage is $51,939 or £32,984.16
Schooling is free, unless private
Medical insurance is relatively cheap. (I paid approx £30 a month)
By schooling I meant college/university, sorry for the confusion. That is not the average wage, that is the average household income, which is £10k less than in the UK. You like your percentages so could you let me know what the percentage difference is for medical insurance in the UK vs US? £0 against £360PA?Schooling is free, unless private
Medical insurance is relatively cheap. (I paid approx £30 a month)
You do have a point on University tuition fee's... they are very high.
The war on motorists, has nothing to do with fuel duty or VED, that's always been like that
It has to do with all the injustices against the motorists things like
Councils over enforcing bus lanes, box junctions, parking etc, to balance their budget.
Private companies being able to fine motorist under the charade of it being a contract.
All the erosions of freedoms of the motorist
Councils taking out injunctions against gatherings of 2 or more cars in a public place
Speed limits constantly being reduced in spite of constantly falling accident statistics, numerous national speed limit stretches reduced to 50s and 20 being the new norm urban streets.
The laws being tightened up so you are now not allow to so much allow one of your friends or children to drive your car around an empty car park without them being licensed and insurer just like they were on the road.
Then there are the measures to try and push people out of their cars
Councils starting to levy charges on business who provide staff parking.
Councils who will only allow a maximum amount of parking per property on new houses, to try and lessen the amount of traffic increase, so they don't have to spend money on the roads.
Closing of roads and making them buses only.
These are the sorts of things people refer to as the war against motorists, not simply paying normal road tax and fuel duty, there hasn't really been an attack on these for quite some time, the last major ved hike was nearly 10 years ago except for the first year tax which was nearly 5 years ago, and the fuel duty rises have probably been well below inflation over the last 10 years.
It has to do with all the injustices against the motorists things like
Councils over enforcing bus lanes, box junctions, parking etc, to balance their budget.
Private companies being able to fine motorist under the charade of it being a contract.
All the erosions of freedoms of the motorist
Councils taking out injunctions against gatherings of 2 or more cars in a public place
Speed limits constantly being reduced in spite of constantly falling accident statistics, numerous national speed limit stretches reduced to 50s and 20 being the new norm urban streets.
The laws being tightened up so you are now not allow to so much allow one of your friends or children to drive your car around an empty car park without them being licensed and insurer just like they were on the road.
Then there are the measures to try and push people out of their cars
Councils starting to levy charges on business who provide staff parking.
Councils who will only allow a maximum amount of parking per property on new houses, to try and lessen the amount of traffic increase, so they don't have to spend money on the roads.
Closing of roads and making them buses only.
These are the sorts of things people refer to as the war against motorists, not simply paying normal road tax and fuel duty, there hasn't really been an attack on these for quite some time, the last major ved hike was nearly 10 years ago except for the first year tax which was nearly 5 years ago, and the fuel duty rises have probably been well below inflation over the last 10 years.
For most of the population it does not need to be expensive.
Highly fuel efficient cars are available very cheaply, roads are nearly all tariff free and population density is so high that most don't actually need to drive that far as the country is pretty compact, tesco, petrol station, post office, etc always nearby.
Try any developing country - insane duties on premium cars
Try europe - those motorway fees seriously add up
Try USA - the country is so spread out, you may pay less for 'gas' but you will use a hell of a lot of it
For me id rather costs were increased a little bit through road tolls and have a number of important and heavily used A roads converted into dual carriageways.
If you are on a low salary obviously it's going to be expensive, but the everything would be. But for average earners, especially average earners in careers and not in unskilled / casual employment, they can enjoy a high quality of motring much cheaper than most other places in the world.
Highly fuel efficient cars are available very cheaply, roads are nearly all tariff free and population density is so high that most don't actually need to drive that far as the country is pretty compact, tesco, petrol station, post office, etc always nearby.
Try any developing country - insane duties on premium cars
Try europe - those motorway fees seriously add up
Try USA - the country is so spread out, you may pay less for 'gas' but you will use a hell of a lot of it
For me id rather costs were increased a little bit through road tolls and have a number of important and heavily used A roads converted into dual carriageways.
If you are on a low salary obviously it's going to be expensive, but the everything would be. But for average earners, especially average earners in careers and not in unskilled / casual employment, they can enjoy a high quality of motring much cheaper than most other places in the world.
ging84 said:
The war on motorists, has nothing to do with fuel duty or VED, that's always been like that
It has to do with all the injustices against the motorists things like
Councils over enforcing bus lanes, box junctions, parking etc, to balance their budget.
Private companies being able to fine motorist under the charade of it being a contract.
All the erosions of freedoms of the motorist
Councils taking out injunctions against gatherings of 2 or more cars in a public place
Speed limits constantly being reduced in spite of constantly falling accident statistics, numerous national speed limit stretches reduced to 50s and 20 being the new norm urban streets.
The laws being tightened up so you are now not allow to so much allow one of your friends or children to drive your car around an empty car park without them being licensed and insurer just like they were on the road.
Then there are the measures to try and push people out of their cars
Councils starting to levy charges on business who provide staff parking.
Councils who will only allow a maximum amount of parking per property on new houses, to try and lessen the amount of traffic increase, so they don't have to spend money on the roads.
Closing of roads and making them buses only.
These are the sorts of things people refer to as the war against motorists, not simply paying normal road tax and fuel duty, there hasn't really been an attack on these for quite some time, the last major ved hike was nearly 10 years ago except for the first year tax which was nearly 5 years ago, and the fuel duty rises have probably been well below inflation over the last 10 years.
And now it's back on topic. It has to do with all the injustices against the motorists things like
Councils over enforcing bus lanes, box junctions, parking etc, to balance their budget.
Private companies being able to fine motorist under the charade of it being a contract.
All the erosions of freedoms of the motorist
Councils taking out injunctions against gatherings of 2 or more cars in a public place
Speed limits constantly being reduced in spite of constantly falling accident statistics, numerous national speed limit stretches reduced to 50s and 20 being the new norm urban streets.
The laws being tightened up so you are now not allow to so much allow one of your friends or children to drive your car around an empty car park without them being licensed and insurer just like they were on the road.
Then there are the measures to try and push people out of their cars
Councils starting to levy charges on business who provide staff parking.
Councils who will only allow a maximum amount of parking per property on new houses, to try and lessen the amount of traffic increase, so they don't have to spend money on the roads.
Closing of roads and making them buses only.
These are the sorts of things people refer to as the war against motorists, not simply paying normal road tax and fuel duty, there hasn't really been an attack on these for quite some time, the last major ved hike was nearly 10 years ago except for the first year tax which was nearly 5 years ago, and the fuel duty rises have probably been well below inflation over the last 10 years.
You forgot scamera vans and victim surcharges.
Edited by divetheworld on Wednesday 17th December 07:28
The government takes huge amounts every year off the motoring public in motor, and motoring related taxes, only a small proportion of which is spent on the roads, (which essentially allow all that cash to be generated. A bit like the government actually trying to starve the goose that lays its golden eggs year after year. But (unusually) I am not sure the drive to extract cash from the motoring public is entirely based on raising cash, As the various groups including green huggers have a hand in some of the motoring related decisions made by governments.
We are often exhorted to get out of our cars, but into / onto......what exactly?
When a way of getting about, that is `actually' better than using cars is devised, the general public will switch to using it in droves.
To date, no such better means of getting about in todays world has been invented.
We are often exhorted to get out of our cars, but into / onto......what exactly?
When a way of getting about, that is `actually' better than using cars is devised, the general public will switch to using it in droves.
To date, no such better means of getting about in todays world has been invented.
What the actual fk are you on about OP.
king talivans and cameras everywhere you nugget. It's never been more difficult to escape the speed stazi. Time was I could blat about the countryside with nary a care in the world, but now you've got to keep your eyes peeled on the horizon for a van nestling in a layby. Bad times.
tbox Saxos. When I was a yoof I paid about 500 quid, tops.
tbox old boy, and are paying nonepence or £20 a year to tax it. Those of us with proper cars are paying £500 a year I'll have you know.
k are you on about OP.Mr Gear said:
What are people talking about exactly?
Well, allow me to elucidate.Mr Gear said:
It's never been so cheap and easy to own and operate a motor vehicle.
Obviously operating my substantial fleet is well within my considerable goateed means, being the company director that I am. However, it's not 'cheap' or 'easy', not by a long chalk Sonny Jim. Mr Gear said:
I haven't seen a policeman hiding in a bush with a radar gun for about 10 years.
There's fking talivans and cameras everywhere you nugget. It's never been more difficult to escape the speed stazi. Time was I could blat about the countryside with nary a care in the world, but now you've got to keep your eyes peeled on the horizon for a van nestling in a layby. Bad times.Mr Gear said:
I see cars parked with gay abandon on double-yellow lines.
And they'll all be ticketed remotely thanks to Orwellian CCTV cameras filming your every move, with entire teams of people employed to scour the feeds looking for their next victim. If they don't get you, roving wardens on scooters will.Mr Gear said:
Insurance is cheap
It might be for you and me with a few years under our belt, but young 'uns today are paying two, three or four thousand a year to insure their stbox Saxos. When I was a yoof I paid about 500 quid, tops.Mr Gear said:
fuel is cheap
Do you mean cheaper than last week? If so I'll give you that, however at more than £5 a gallon it's three times more expensive than when I started driving just over 20 years ago.Mr Gear said:
tax is hilariously cheap or even free!
I can only assume you drive a diesel stbox old boy, and are paying nonepence or £20 a year to tax it. Those of us with proper cars are paying £500 a year I'll have you know.Mr Gear said:
And yet a colleague of mine was droning on about how the motorist pays for everything in this country and how he can barely afford to drive his car to work because he's got 9 points on his licence and pays £300 a year road tax or something. Idiot.
/rant
Oh...errrr. Do I work with you?/rant
In one way I agree, anyone with a full time job should be able to afford to run a car in this country. However, when you compare like for like running costs to the USA and some other European countries, we have it expensive, and that's when the war on the motorist people come out.
Last month I drove 120 miles in the states in a V6 Nissan, and it cost me $6 in fuel. That's £3.81 today. You're not going to get that sort of figure in the UK, especially in a V6 vehicle.
We do however have high depreciation, so take advantage by buying great older cars with big engines!
Last month I drove 120 miles in the states in a V6 Nissan, and it cost me $6 in fuel. That's £3.81 today. You're not going to get that sort of figure in the UK, especially in a V6 vehicle.
We do however have high depreciation, so take advantage by buying great older cars with big engines!
Um, OP is living in La La land me thinks.
One thing did make me smile a little though... A short time ago the government was urging the petrochem companies to pass on the savings from the reduced price of a barrel of oil... Kinda hypocritical of a government that taxes fuel to the tune of almost 80% of price of petrol at the pumps.
One thing did make me smile a little though... A short time ago the government was urging the petrochem companies to pass on the savings from the reduced price of a barrel of oil... Kinda hypocritical of a government that taxes fuel to the tune of almost 80% of price of petrol at the pumps.
Mr Gear said:
It's a fking bargain! I can drive from London to Brighton and back for about a tenner. Compare that to what the train costs and then tell me it's expensive.
This I agree with. I have paid for a car, paid for insurance, paid for tax and paid for an MoT. Whether I use it 1 day in a year or 365 days in a year, the basic cost each year is insurance and tax and MoT. A train ticket to my parents in brighton from london victoria is...I dunno something obscene, maybe 20 quid 1 way? And I have to get an underground ticket to london victoria, and the whole journey door to door is 3-3.5 hours king bargain! I can drive from London to Brighton and back for about a tenner. Compare that to what the train costs and then tell me it's expensive.From norf lundun, the 220 mile round trip (M25 - M23 - A23 then back aagin) is about 25 quid in fuel. Thats with just me in the car, or me and 3 other occupants in the car.
So I'll take the car. Fuel isnt as cheap as it once was, but its still cheaper to buy fuel than a train ticket.
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