The " war on the motorist"
Discussion
Car purchase price £250 in March (Full leather, cruise, decent stereo loads of other toys)
Insurance £150 (oldish fart)
MOT £55 car had 11 months
Tax £220 a year car had 5 months
Averages 40 to the Gallon
Mileage to date 12000 miles £1906
Repairs to date £0
Servicing to date Oil and Filter and some sundries £100
Total Cost £2479 or 20.6p per mile
Daily cost on public transport even with a season ticket £20 a day or £3600 for the same period.
Add other sundries, None as I haven't be caught for anything and don't have to pay to park.
Quite cheap I think
Insurance £150 (oldish fart)
MOT £55 car had 11 months
Tax £220 a year car had 5 months
Averages 40 to the Gallon
Mileage to date 12000 miles £1906
Repairs to date £0
Servicing to date Oil and Filter and some sundries £100
Total Cost £2479 or 20.6p per mile
Daily cost on public transport even with a season ticket £20 a day or £3600 for the same period.
Add other sundries, None as I haven't be caught for anything and don't have to pay to park.
Quite cheap I think
T0nup said:
Um, OP is living in La La land me thinks.
One thing did make me smile a little though... A short time ago the government was urging the petrochem companies to pass on the savings from the reduced price of a barrel of oil... Kinda hypocritical of a government that taxes fuel to the tune of almost 80% of price of petrol at the pumps.
This is spot on. Didn't Gordon Brown try to tell OPEC to reduce the price of oil some years ago, and they turned round and told him, how can you ask us to do that, when most of the price of a gallon that `you' take off `your motorists' is tax.One thing did make me smile a little though... A short time ago the government was urging the petrochem companies to pass on the savings from the reduced price of a barrel of oil... Kinda hypocritical of a government that taxes fuel to the tune of almost 80% of price of petrol at the pumps.
thescamper said:
Car purchase price £250 in March (Full leather, cruise, decent stereo loads of other toys)
Insurance £150 (oldish fart)
MOT £55 car had 11 months
Tax £220 a year car had 5 months
Averages 40 to the Gallon
Mileage to date 12000 miles £1906
Repairs to date £0
Servicing to date Oil and Filter and some sundries £100
Total Cost £2479 or 20.6p per mile
Daily cost on public transport even with a season ticket £20 a day or £3600 for the same period.
Add other sundries, None as I haven't be caught for anything and don't have to pay to park.
Quite cheap I think
I would agree people have to be quite rich to use public transport. Especially trains. For the price of a one day return ticket into central London, I could take four people from London to Brighton and back by car.... twice!Insurance £150 (oldish fart)
MOT £55 car had 11 months
Tax £220 a year car had 5 months
Averages 40 to the Gallon
Mileage to date 12000 miles £1906
Repairs to date £0
Servicing to date Oil and Filter and some sundries £100
Total Cost £2479 or 20.6p per mile
Daily cost on public transport even with a season ticket £20 a day or £3600 for the same period.
Add other sundries, None as I haven't be caught for anything and don't have to pay to park.
Quite cheap I think
mph1977 said:
skyrover said:
Eski1991 said:
skyrover said:
The US average wage is $51,939 or £32,984.16
Schooling is free, unless private
Medical insurance is relatively cheap. (I paid approx £30 a month)
By schooling I meant college/university, sorry for the confusion. That is not the average wage, that is the average household income, which is £10k less than in the UK. You like your percentages so could you let me know what the percentage difference is for medical insurance in the UK vs US? £0 against £360PA?Schooling is free, unless private
Medical insurance is relatively cheap. (I paid approx £30 a month)
You do have a point on University tuition fee's... they are very high.
Had no issues with prescription drug's, although if cheaper generic brand was available than was obliged to use that.
Doctor visit's required $20 deductible, unless pregnant... My daughter was born there and it cost me absolutely nothing.
This was with blue cross/blue shield.
I'm with the OP on this, my car cost me £250 quid, in the last 3 years I've probably spent a total of £800, including the cost of the car, on servicing/tyres/mot's etc. I spend £25 a week on fuel commuting to work and £500 VED/insurance a year. BARGAIN!!! For all the freedom it gives and the ability to get anywhere I want at any time - Priceless
These people getting cars on finance or lease, surely you do this as a status symbol? Your repayments each month are probably more than my car cost. The depreciation on new cars could pay for running a slightly older one, could it not? Obviously if you can afford it then fill your boots, just don't complain, again it's your choice!
With regards to cameras being a tax on car drivers - simple don't speed, if you do choose to speed be prepared for the repercussions/being caught. This is the same as breaking any law in this country. Instead of worrying about speeding fines/points do a track day, might be money well spent. (but don't start complaining about the cost of track days!!!)
VED - so what we have to pay it. It keeps the country running the same as any other tax. £200 a year for my car - I know people who spend that on pub visits or takeaways a month!
If your complaining at the cost of running a personal fleet, why do you have one? That's your choice isn't it? The same as if I want to visit the pub everyday, do I start complaining about the cost of beer?
I love woodworking, the cost of wood is ridiculous, I don't complain about it because I chose it as a hobby.
You compare us to the US but I'm sure a majority of people wouldn't pay insurance if we had no NHS, these people would then complain when billed several thousand pounds for health care. People would think the insurance was a tax if it was made mandatory so you end up in a vicious circle..
If you have a low paid job (I'm an average earner so no company director here) then car share or bike it to work, or better yet stop complaining and get on with it...
These people getting cars on finance or lease, surely you do this as a status symbol? Your repayments each month are probably more than my car cost. The depreciation on new cars could pay for running a slightly older one, could it not? Obviously if you can afford it then fill your boots, just don't complain, again it's your choice!
With regards to cameras being a tax on car drivers - simple don't speed, if you do choose to speed be prepared for the repercussions/being caught. This is the same as breaking any law in this country. Instead of worrying about speeding fines/points do a track day, might be money well spent. (but don't start complaining about the cost of track days!!!)
VED - so what we have to pay it. It keeps the country running the same as any other tax. £200 a year for my car - I know people who spend that on pub visits or takeaways a month!
If your complaining at the cost of running a personal fleet, why do you have one? That's your choice isn't it? The same as if I want to visit the pub everyday, do I start complaining about the cost of beer?
I love woodworking, the cost of wood is ridiculous, I don't complain about it because I chose it as a hobby.
You compare us to the US but I'm sure a majority of people wouldn't pay insurance if we had no NHS, these people would then complain when billed several thousand pounds for health care. People would think the insurance was a tax if it was made mandatory so you end up in a vicious circle..
If you have a low paid job (I'm an average earner so no company director here) then car share or bike it to work, or better yet stop complaining and get on with it...
skyrover said:
I can only comment on my personal experience, but I would never in a million years rank the UK system higher in terms of "quality of care"
The fact many American's are in poor health has little to do with their healthcare system and everything to do with lifestyle choices.
PH bubble effect.The fact many American's are in poor health has little to do with their healthcare system and everything to do with lifestyle choices.
The US has dreadful access to healthcare unless you are rich or lucky enough to be employed by the federal government or one of the decreasing number of companies who probide good health imdurance as part of renumeration. This of course assumes you can actually find a primary care provider.
Tests being run because they exist is not good care
self referral to sub-specialists is not good care - it just makes it harder for those who have a clinical need to see a specialist to get in - GPs are 'Specialists' in their own right specialists in primary care and preventative medicine ...
random and scantily justifisble exposures to ionising radiation is not good care.
and i also guess ypu are confusing concierged and 24 hour room servuve menus with good in-patient care.
Edited by mph1977 on Wednesday 17th December 09:30
ging84 said:
The war on motorists, has nothing to do with fuel duty or VED, that's always been like that
It has to do with all the injustices against the motorists things like
Councils over enforcing bus lanes, box junctions, parking etc, to balance their budget.
Private companies being able to fine motorist under the charade of it being a contract.
All the erosions of freedoms of the motorist
Councils taking out injunctions against gatherings of 2 or more cars in a public place
Speed limits constantly being reduced in spite of constantly falling accident statistics, numerous national speed limit stretches reduced to 50s and 20 being the new norm urban streets.
The laws being tightened up so you are now not allow to so much allow one of your friends or children to drive your car around an empty car park without them being licensed and insurer just like they were on the road.
Then there are the measures to try and push people out of their cars
Councils starting to levy charges on business who provide staff parking.
Councils who will only allow a maximum amount of parking per property on new houses, to try and lessen the amount of traffic increase, so they don't have to spend money on the roads.
Closing of roads and making them buses only.
These are the sorts of things people refer to as the war against motorists, not simply paying normal road tax and fuel duty, there hasn't really been an attack on these for quite some time, the last major ved hike was nearly 10 years ago except for the first year tax which was nearly 5 years ago, and the fuel duty rises have probably been well below inflation over the last 10 years.
Damn straight. I pay my taxes, I do a pretty decent job of piloting a motor vehicle around our over-crowded roads, I'll pass any driving test you see fit to introduce. Now leave me the hell alone to get on with it!It has to do with all the injustices against the motorists things like
Councils over enforcing bus lanes, box junctions, parking etc, to balance their budget.
Private companies being able to fine motorist under the charade of it being a contract.
All the erosions of freedoms of the motorist
Councils taking out injunctions against gatherings of 2 or more cars in a public place
Speed limits constantly being reduced in spite of constantly falling accident statistics, numerous national speed limit stretches reduced to 50s and 20 being the new norm urban streets.
The laws being tightened up so you are now not allow to so much allow one of your friends or children to drive your car around an empty car park without them being licensed and insurer just like they were on the road.
Then there are the measures to try and push people out of their cars
Councils starting to levy charges on business who provide staff parking.
Councils who will only allow a maximum amount of parking per property on new houses, to try and lessen the amount of traffic increase, so they don't have to spend money on the roads.
Closing of roads and making them buses only.
These are the sorts of things people refer to as the war against motorists, not simply paying normal road tax and fuel duty, there hasn't really been an attack on these for quite some time, the last major ved hike was nearly 10 years ago except for the first year tax which was nearly 5 years ago, and the fuel duty rises have probably been well below inflation over the last 10 years.
mph1977 said:
skyrover said:
I can only comment on my personal experience, but I would never in a million years rank the UK system higher in terms of "quality of care"
The fact many American's are in poor health has little to do with their healthcare system and everything to do with lifestyle choices.
PH bubble effect.The fact many American's are in poor health has little to do with their healthcare system and everything to do with lifestyle choices.
The US has dreadful access to healthcare unless you are rich or lucky enough to be employed by the federal government or one of the decreasing number of companies who probide good health imdurance as part of renumeration. This of course assumes you can actually find a primary care provider.
Tests being run because they exist is not good care
self referral to sub-specialists is not good care - it just makes it harder for those who have a clinical need to see a specialist to get in - GPs are 'Specialists' in their own right specialists in primary care and preventative medicine ...
random and scantily justifisble exposures to ionising radiation is not good care.
and i also guess ypu are confusing concierged and 24 hour room servuve menus with good in-patient care.
Edited by mph1977 on Wednesday 17th December 09:30
Just to divert back for a moment to the earlier "four Yorkshiremen" nature of the thread and fuel prices. Some of us, though this was before I could get a licence, remember the time when someone telling the forecourt attendant (remember them?) to "stick in a quids worth) was thought to be just a bit flash.
Mines £2000 a year for fuel, insurance £74 a month, tax is £180 a year, Service every 6k £65 (oil & filter), Full service every 10k £110, mot £40 + anything else that needs doing due to all the miles i do
I add it all up to roughly £3400 after everything including the miles i do (over estimating)
Anyone to say its cheap is very wrong. America pays £2.00 a gallon for diesel & £1.62 for petrol at the moment. Yes I know their gallon is 3.7 liters to a gallon and ours is 4.5 liters to a gallon but ours is still ridiculously high
I add it all up to roughly £3400 after everything including the miles i do (over estimating)
Anyone to say its cheap is very wrong. America pays £2.00 a gallon for diesel & £1.62 for petrol at the moment. Yes I know their gallon is 3.7 liters to a gallon and ours is 4.5 liters to a gallon but ours is still ridiculously high
Edited by cars1993 on Wednesday 17th December 10:37
cars1993 said:
Mines £2000 a year for fuel, insurance £74 a month, tax is £180 a year, Service every 6k £65 (oil & filter), Full service every 10k £110, mot £40 + anything else that needs doing due to all the miles i do
I add it all up to roughly £3400 after everything including the miles i do (over estimating)
Anyone to say its cheap is very wrong. America pays £2.00 a gallon for diesel & £1.62 for petrol at the moment. Yes I know their gallon is 3.7 liters to a gallon and ours is 4.5 liters to a gallon but its still ridiculously high
Yes but you're looking at one aspect and one other country. You'd need to look at every aspect of motoring in the US and also other countires to get a feel for whether it is expensive or not. I add it all up to roughly £3400 after everything including the miles i do (over estimating)
Anyone to say its cheap is very wrong. America pays £2.00 a gallon for diesel & £1.62 for petrol at the moment. Yes I know their gallon is 3.7 liters to a gallon and ours is 4.5 liters to a gallon but its still ridiculously high
Edited by Devil2575 on Wednesday 17th December 10:46
Driving is expensive if you work out the yearly cost, hell travel in general is, train prices are always rising, I think I heard on average people spend something like 1/3 their income on travelling to work! Many people take the cheapest option, and that is often public transport over the cost of running a car, so no, it's not that cheap, even running a 1.0 micra you've still got all the running costs on top which would still put it on par/more than public transport, depending on where you live in the country.
To add - all those buying cars for £250 as daily drivers - where are you finding these? Most cars under £500 seem to have several faults with them or are for spares of repair, MOT failures etc, nothing reliable enough as a daily drive.
To add - all those buying cars for £250 as daily drivers - where are you finding these? Most cars under £500 seem to have several faults with them or are for spares of repair, MOT failures etc, nothing reliable enough as a daily drive.
Edited by Riknos on Wednesday 17th December 11:47
Riknos said:
Driving is expensive if you work out the yearly cost, hell travel in general is, train prices are always rising, I think I heard on average people spend something like 1/3 their income on travelling to work! Many people take the cheapest option, and that is often public transport over the cost of running a car, so no, it's not that cheap, even running a 1.0 micra you've still got all the running costs on top which would still put it on par/more than public transport, depending on where you live in the country.
To add - all those buying cars for £250 as daily drivers - where are you finding these? Most cars under £500 seem to have several faults with them or are for spares of repair, MOT failures etc, nothing reliable enough as a daily drive.
Mine come from a guy at work, 250 of the queens finest, Ford Escort Estate, 14 years old, spent £250 servicing it myself when I got it. Put some decent tyres on it as well. Had a bit of welding and brake pipes on last years MOT, number plate bulb on this years and advisory on brake pads (checked and plenty of life but £14 to replace myself). Tyres will need doing soon so £100 for front wheels to be done (Toyo T1R's as I've found them excellent so far).To add - all those buying cars for £250 as daily drivers - where are you finding these? Most cars under £500 seem to have several faults with them or are for spares of repair, MOT failures etc, nothing reliable enough as a daily drive.
Edited by Riknos on Wednesday 17th December 11:47
May need a clutch in the next 6 months as peddle is high but £70 and some of my time will have that done.
See them on eBay every now and again for that sort of money, parts are so cheap that if anything breaks it's cheap to fix.
I broke a mirror trying to get a wheelie bin past it (turns out they don't fold in) £15 from a breakers and 20 minutes.
I've done coming up to 20000 miles in it in the time I've had it and it hasn't skipped a beat. (excluding the trim on the windscreen leaking - fixed with some wide pvc tape) I think about getting rid of it every now and again but can't bring myself to do it when it's cost me so little. May even treat it to a bit of two tone and paint the bottom half a different colour as it's looking a bit tatty.
It's great driving a cheap car, seriously everyone should try it. People worrying about driving there p&j in the snow/bad weather/grit lorries chipping paint etc. I park mine without any worry about damage I'll chuck several sheets of ply of the roof rack using the rear spoiler as a loading ramp. As long as it carries on the way it has it's a keeper.
The day it dies I'll either fix it or replace it with another of the same.
there are certain things that are expensive vis-a-vis running a car however.
No war on motorists...
Insurance - I've never paid more than £450 p/a. No it's not cheap but neither is it b
k-shrivellingly expensive either
Petrol - I suspect in real terms it's as cheap/dear as it always has been (ignoring the current price blip)
2nd hand prices - used car prices in the UK are ridiculously cheap compared to elsewhere in the world (even new car prices are more in line to other places compared to 30 years ago)
War on motorists
RFL - an envy tax pure and simple, if I get a Merc SL 2006 vintage or newer it'll cost me £475 p/a even if I only drive it 3 times a year. That's a fking joke!
Proliferation of 20mph zones and general lowering of limits in large areas of the country
Cash cow motorist vis-a-vis cameras etc - but then again it could be worse we could be facing Australian style speed policing
Reduction in availability of parking and/or unrealistically small spaces compared to modern car sizes
No war on motorists...
Insurance - I've never paid more than £450 p/a. No it's not cheap but neither is it b
k-shrivellingly expensive eitherPetrol - I suspect in real terms it's as cheap/dear as it always has been (ignoring the current price blip)
2nd hand prices - used car prices in the UK are ridiculously cheap compared to elsewhere in the world (even new car prices are more in line to other places compared to 30 years ago)
War on motorists
RFL - an envy tax pure and simple, if I get a Merc SL 2006 vintage or newer it'll cost me £475 p/a even if I only drive it 3 times a year. That's a f
king joke!Proliferation of 20mph zones and general lowering of limits in large areas of the country
Cash cow motorist vis-a-vis cameras etc - but then again it could be worse we could be facing Australian style speed policing
Reduction in availability of parking and/or unrealistically small spaces compared to modern car sizes
Mr2Mike said:
Nigel Worc's said:
I'm not sure all that maths stuff really works in the real world.
That's me convinced. Always knew maths was a waste of time at school, no useful applications in the real world.
irocfan said:
RFL - an envy tax pure and simple, if I get a Merc SL 2006 vintage or newer it'll cost me £475 p/a even if I only drive it 3 times a year. That's a fking joke!
Rubbish.king joke!It's a stick to try and persuade people to buy cars that emit less CO2.
Whether you agree with that or not you can't claim it's got anything to do with Envy.
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