RE: BMW 1 Series M Coupe: PH Heroes

[cidered77]

ChrisBuer said:

cidered77 said:

Chris - did you find the extra power improved it? I mean, extra power is usually always fun - but I'm in two minds on whether to push on with mine, in truth even with the PSSs replacing PS2s it feels like it has as much power as the chassis can handle, and would be flashing that yellow light all the time with that much shove?

In a word yes. However I would say that the standard car struggles to put down the power with the standard PS2 tyres and standard geo set up. After fitting Pilot Super Sports and having Ray West amend the geo for me, it was a lot better, but it still flashed away under heavy acceleration.

It was only bad under low speed acceleration but when you were in gear at around 50-60mph, it was pretty brutal.

It's a wonderful car and I do miss mine, but if I were to have another one, I'd definitely have it remapped again. It's like a whole new car when you do

Hmm, that Geo setup sounds interesting - am looking to have Mark Fish do the same to the Trophy. How much was it if you don't mind me asking, and where is he based? cheers.

[cidered77]

MK1RS Bruce said:

cidered77 said:

ChrisBuer said:

I had one and sold it a month ago.

Great cars and very enjoyable to drive, but using it daily to drive to the local park and ride (a round trip of about 5 miles) wasn't the best use of the car. So I bought myself a little run around instead and sold the 1M.

That said, it never missed a beat and was very capable! A fast, comfortable and pretty much depreciation proof car. What more could you want

Chris - did you find the extra power improved it? I mean, extra power is usually always fun - but I'm in two minds on whether to push on with mine, in truth even with the PSSs replacing PS2s it feels like it has as much power as the chassis can handle, and would be flashing that yellow light all the time with that much shove?

Just turn off the traction control then the little yellow light won't flash!

i usually turn off the 1st stage - but you need a whoooole lot more bravery/stupidity, disposable income and talent to drive it all the time in all conditions with both stages off

(and by "talent", i mean the sort that only comes with lap after lap of powerful RWD driving; I can pedal a go-kart pretty quickly, but I do not have the confidence to move a 1Ms tail around on the way to Tescos - plenty of online horror shots of them in ditches if you look!!)

[ChrisBuer]

cidered77 said:

Hmm, that Geo setup sounds interesting - am looking to have Mark Fish do the same to the Trophy. How much was it if you don't mind me asking, and where is he based? cheers.

I can't honestly remember the cost, but it wasn't much. Between £100-200 maybe? He's based over at the Thruxton circuit in Andover.

[cidered77]

ChrisBuer said:

cidered77 said:

Hmm, that Geo setup sounds interesting - am looking to have Mark Fish do the same to the Trophy. How much was it if you don't mind me asking, and where is he based? cheers.

I can't honestly remember the cost, but it wasn't much. Between £100-200 maybe? He's based over at the Thruxton circuit in Andover.

Which is - on a clear morning - precisely 27 mins drive from house. Nice one - thanks for the tip

[aeropilot]

Guvernator said:

I think you've misunderstood me. I wasn't really talking about power as it doesn't really need more power, it needs the ability to rev properly and by this I mean 8000rpm AND produce meaningful power at the top of that rev range

The last thing I want for the engine in a road car is the pointless ability to rev to 8000rpm.....

BMW got things just right right with the N55 IMHO.

[0836whimper]

ChrisBuer said:

It's a wonderful car and I do miss mine, but if I were to have another one, I'd definitely have it remapped again. It's like a whole new car when you do

I was at Bedford GT circuit last March with a 1M (and ex-CSL) owner.
It was mapped with the boost selectable via steering wheel controls. Interestingly it was fastest with no extra boost, none of the extra power was useful, it just made it slower round the track. Only better for dual carriage ways (once rolling) or pub bragging rights I suspect.

I hold them in high regard as the only other recent M car I find interesting. But I did come away with my lofty expectations punctured a little. The reviews make them seem very exciting and relative to most sensible cars they are. But on track they are a bit - and I hesitate to say this - dull. Too much like any other generic modern turbo car and missing the x-factor, e.g. noise, throttle response, seats, driving position etc. I'd still like one (who doesn't like depreciation proof motoring in a fun car ?) but it would be as a daily driver I think.

[Guvernator]

aeropilot said:

Guvernator said:

I think you've misunderstood me. I wasn't really talking about power as it doesn't really need more power, it needs the ability to rev properly and by this I mean 8000rpm AND produce meaningful power at the top of that rev range

The last thing I want for the engine in a road car is the pointless ability to rev to 8000rpm.....

BMW got things just right right with the N55 IMHO.

You see there's the rub. One man's pointless is another mans essential, especially when we are talking about sports\performance cars. I agree that an average road car has no need whatsoever to go that high but we are talking about one of the M divisions performance flagships.

One of the main reasons for the existence of any M car is that it should be a bit more special than an average car. There are plenty of other offerings in the BMW stable, indeed they do a very fine line in diesels if all a driver wants to do is waft along at 3000rpm on a wave of torque but there is only one M car for each model range so I think it deserves to be a bit more unique and more for driving enthusiasts, those who you'd think would appreciate a more exciting engine. I think the V8 with it's 8000rpm limit in the previous M3 was an infinitely more appropriate engine for an M car than yet another slightly warmed over N54\N55 variant. Unfortunately it looks like I am in the minority as it appears most people prefer the latter.

Edited by Guvernator on Wednesday 24th December 12:57

[Bladedancer]

Guvernator said:

I think you've misunderstood me. I wasn't really talking about power as it doesn't really need more power, it needs the ability to rev properly and by this I mean 8000rpm AND produce meaningful power at the top of that rev range which is a different challenge than just making sure it can handle lots of BHP.

I understand their isn't much room in the engine bay for larger turbos but as I stated earlier, the N54 and indeed most modern turbo engines aren't really designed with top end fizz in mind. It's easier to meet emission levels and please lazy drivers who just want a car that's effortless to drive by designing an engine that delivers most of it's useful work in the mid-range.

However this isn't very exciting for me, especially when you've sampled something that IMO is better in sports car terms. Go drive an RB26 engined GT-R too see how to make a properly exciting turbo engine. Sure it kicks in a little later than a modern engine but it still produces lots of mid-range grunt but more importantly, it absolutely sings round to it's 8250rpm limit. Check out this video to see what I mean.

GT-R revs

I've sampled both a 1M and several RB26 engined GT-R's and despite the 20 years "progress", I know which one I prefer.

RB26 is an old-school, properly build, designed and overengineered racing engine.
N54, well, isn't.
And there's the host of HPFP problems to boot.

I think you might find 2JZ is a better comparison for N54 as its the same capacity while RB is 2.6 liters so larger turbo was needed.

[aeropilot]

Guvernator said:

One of the main reasons for the existence of any M car is that it should be a bit more special than an average car. There are plenty of other offerings in the BMW stable, indeed they do a very fine line in diesels if all a driver wants to do is waft along at 3000rpm on a wave of torque but there is only one M car for each model range so I think it deserves to be a bit more unique and more for driving enthusiasts, those who you'd think would appreciate a more exciting engine. I think the V8 with it's 8000rpm limit in the previous M3 was an infinitely more appropriate engine for an M car than yet another slightly warmed over N54\N55 variant. Unfortunately it looks like I am in the minority as it appears most people prefer the latter.

Oh, I’m not disagreeing with that principle, having spent my twenties at the wheel of Lotus-Cortina’s, Twin Cam and BDA Escorts and Lotus-Sunbeam’s etc., but, 25-30 years on, something a little less ‘full-on’ is more my thing. In some ways more like my old RS2000 than the more homologation specials.
I think the 1M fits that bill perfectly, and if it’s being used as a regular car, even more so.
After I canned the idea of the 1M because of it being manual only, I did look at getting a E92 M3 instead as BMW were doing 0% finance on them at the time, and spec to order car with DCT, Comp Pack and extended leather etc., wasn’t going to be more than 40 quid more than the 135i…!
Dealer had a DCT M3 to try as well…….would be rude not to J
What a fantastic engine – but, as a daily driver toiling around the M25 on a daily basis and only getting the chance for one maybe 2 tracks days a year, I know I’d tire of that engine in time, as the opportunity to enjoy it’s rev ability would be just too few living in London and crawling around the M25 on a daily basis. That was ignoring the massive extra running costs for something that just would be pointless most of the time.
The 135i (or 1M) is more chuckable, more fun (had a bigger grin getting out of my 135i test drive than I did after the M3) and have wonderously grunty engines that are just more suited to road driving, but are certainly not embarrassed either if put on a track on the odd occasion.

I suspect that's exactly why the 1M has been the success it has, and why it is holding it's money so well.

Will the M2 offer the same - and will it affect the values of the 1M - possibly.

[Mermaid]

aeropilot said:

I suspect that's exactly why the 1M has been the success it has, and why it is holding it's money so well.

Will the M2 offer the same - and will it affect the values of the 1M - possibly.

The 1M formula is easier to repeat, the M2 ought to be better.

[shantybeater]

I agree, if it looks anything like this when its produced i'll be very tempted:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/bmw-lau...

As long as they keep the weight similar to the 1M I really can't see them going wrong. I would be highly surprised if this didn't burst the 1M residuals a bit, although if they make the M2 in limited numbers it will probably remain unscathed. If thats the case though i'll be selling a kidney to get one

[Amirhussain]

shantybeater said:

I agree, if it looks anything like this when its produced i'll be very tempted:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/bmw-lau...

As long as they keep the weight similar to the 1M I really can't see them going wrong. I would be highly surprised if this didn't burst the 1M residuals a bit, although if they make the M2 in limited numbers it will probably remain unscathed. If thats the case though i'll be selling a kidney to get one

[s m]

shantybeater said:

I agree, if it looks anything like this when its produced i'll be very tempted:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/bmw-lau...

As long as they keep the weight similar to the 1M I really can't see them going wrong. I would be highly surprised if this didn't burst the 1M residuals a bit, although if they make the M2 in limited numbers it will probably remain unscathed. If thats the case though i'll be selling a kidney to get one

I usually prefer black or white but that colour looks pretty good

[Mouse1903]

Yes please to that M2!

[Geesus]

That M2 looks very tasty, does anyone know its U.K release date yet?

Does one buy a 1M at £40,000 or wait until the end of 2015 and spend £45,000 on a new M2..... I wonder if it will be sold in limited numbers as that'll have a huge impact on holding value one would imagine.

Edited by Geesus on Thursday 25th December 20:35

[aeropilot]

Geesus said:

That M2 looks very tasty, does anyone know its U.K release date yet?

UK/EU production commences in Nov 2015.

[aeropilot]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Spyshots of M2 test cars indicate it will have wide arches.

[ChrisBuer]

0836whimper said:

I was at Bedford GT circuit last March with a 1M (and ex-CSL) owner.
It was mapped with the boost selectable via steering wheel controls. Interestingly it was fastest with no extra boost, none of the extra power was useful, it just made it slower round the track. Only better for dual carriage ways (once rolling) or pub bragging rights I suspect.

I hold them in high regard as the only other recent M car I find interesting. But I did come away with my lofty expectations punctured a little. The reviews make them seem very exciting and relative to most sensible cars they are. But on track they are a bit - and I hesitate to say this - dull. Too much like any other generic modern turbo car and missing the x-factor, e.g. noise, throttle response, seats, driving position etc. I'd still like one (who doesn't like depreciation proof motoring in a fun car ?) but it would be as a daily driver I think.

When you say "none of the extra power was useful", I can only assume there wasn't the space at Bedford to use it? I took my car to Brands and bar a couple of stripped out Ginettas, it was the fastest car there. My friend had a supercharged Elise that was holding me up on the main straight.

That said, I had far more fun on track with the Lotus. The 1M was good but it wasn't existing. That said, no saloon car (M3, etc) is fun on track when you've driven a Caterham or Lotus. They all feel heavy and cumbersome in comparison.

Like I said, I loved my 1M as it was a good fun road car that was practical, rare and fast. However been there done that now, so it's time to move on

[Mermaid]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

the 300 or so horses on the E36 M3 & the E46 M3 are well mannered fine bred horse power. The 1M horses feel digital to me.

[0836whimper]

ChrisBuer said:

When you say "none of the extra power was useful", I can only assume there wasn't the space at Bedford to use it? I took my car to Brands and bar a couple of stripped out Ginettas, it was the fastest car there. My friend had a supercharged Elise that was holding me up on the main straight.

No, there's tonnes of space at Bedford and has a 150mph straight.
It was that the car couldn't get the power down and make use of it in the corners. Harder to drive fast.