RE: BMW 1 Series M Coupe: PH Heroes
Discussion
Guvernator said:
clowesy said:
If I had the money I would have one hell of a job trying to choose between one of these or an M3 CSL.
I wouldn't, In fact I really don't know why these have held their values so well? Yes that engine is very nice as far as most cars go, I had a 335i so I should know, however it never feels M car special and is thoroughly outclassed in the excitement stakes by the scintillating straight 6 NA in the CSL. The noise alone is on another planet for the older car.They've also tried to hide the woeful looks and proportions of the 1 series with that pumped up body kit at which they've only been semi successful. I guess the low numbers are helping to prop up prices but I suspect these will go down once the newer M2 comes out. Sorry but if I had £35k to spend on a modern classic M car, it would have a CSL badge on the boot. I suspect future values will tell which becomes the more desirable but I know which one my moneys on.
Alfa159Ti said:
Never fully understood how this engine in the 1M makes such a compelling proposition and goes down such a storm with the press, whilst the same engine in the Z4 35is results in a car that gets pretty luke-warm reviews.
Strangely, the owners reviews I have read on Z4 Forum of the 35is are glowing.
I think its the way the 1M looks in the flesh, it looks pretty special and fairly bespoke for a baby BMW.Strangely, the owners reviews I have read on Z4 Forum of the 35is are glowing.
This could be the last of the truly great manual M car's.
Josco010 said:
Guvernator said:
clowesy said:
If I had the money I would have one hell of a job trying to choose between one of these or an M3 CSL.
I wouldn't, In fact I really don't know why these have held their values so well? Yes that engine is very nice as far as most cars go, I had a 335i so I should know, however it never feels M car special and is thoroughly outclassed in the excitement stakes by the scintillating straight 6 NA in the CSL. The noise alone is on another planet for the older car.They've also tried to hide the woeful looks and proportions of the 1 series with that pumped up body kit at which they've only been semi successful. I guess the low numbers are helping to prop up prices but I suspect these will go down once the newer M2 comes out. Sorry but if I had £35k to spend on a modern classic M car, it would have a CSL badge on the boot. I suspect future values will tell which becomes the more desirable but I know which one my moneys on.[/quote
+1, the Engine alone in the CSL is more than enough reason. Never feel anything for these 1M, to dull an engine note for me, fast isn't everything for me in my books, feel is important along with the aural stimulation.
cidered77 said:
good work boys - keep talking up those values!!
A combination of low numbers + universally great press + distinctive looks + old school manual means IMO values will always be strong for these. It'll age very well.
Am still delighted with mine - got it for £37k from main dealer on 6,500 miles in 2013, you would pay at least £4k more these days - free car!
An excuse anyway to post what is (in my own mind) the finest 2 car Pistonheads solution for a sub £45k garage. The red one takes the miles off the black one, and takes the track miles too. The black one is the "special" car for special drives. I stare at them quite a lot too.
Great taste in cars. I drive a Trophy and would love a 1M next to it. Maybe in a few years time...A combination of low numbers + universally great press + distinctive looks + old school manual means IMO values will always be strong for these. It'll age very well.
Am still delighted with mine - got it for £37k from main dealer on 6,500 miles in 2013, you would pay at least £4k more these days - free car!
An excuse anyway to post what is (in my own mind) the finest 2 car Pistonheads solution for a sub £45k garage. The red one takes the miles off the black one, and takes the track miles too. The black one is the "special" car for special drives. I stare at them quite a lot too.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Evening JL, hope you're well ? Good to meet up last week, home the journey home wasn't too taxing.
The 1M is a strange car, I've owned two of them, the first Valencia orange, the second Alpine white.
The Valencia orange car wasn't particularly well received by the general public (petrol heads loved it, but not Joe public) that may have been my driving
but I don't think it's possible to be offensive waiting to pull out of side roads patiently, nor indeed waiting patiently in traffic queues.The Alpine White car was only noticed by the cognoscenti, and accordingly flew under the radar more of the time.
Noise. Agreed, they don't sound like a CSL from the inside. I removed the secondary cats from my white car (the N55 135i centerpipe is a cheap straight swap and improves turbo response a bit) Not only does it improve response, it also up the the decibels and allows some pops and crackles on the overrun. But best of all, changing up at maximum revs often led to a rather good whuuuump from the exhaust on the upchange. No it'll never sing like a CSL, but it makes for a very satisfying exhaust note that's never intrusive.
I took my Valencia car down to Cannes (in completely standard form it kept up with several cars that on paper should've run rings around it) On the way back we drove through the Gorges du Verdon for a "spirited" drive, the noise of the 1M reverberated off the rock faces in a manner which was far more pleasing than you'd have believed possible.
Seating : One of the things the 1M Coupe does really well is change direction quickly, and it's whilst you're trying to discover just how chuckable the car is that you expose the limitations of the standard MSport E9X seats.
The CSL came with the most wonderful, comfortable, practical, and tilting/adjustable bucket seats. They were one of the "things" that made the CSL feel special.
In addition to the lack of support the standard 1M seats provide, they're also mounted waaaay too high. If you're nearly six foot, but have a long torso and stumpy legs (for which read freak shaped) the seating position was quite frankly hopeless.
Exit the standard seats, enter stage left these :
In one fell swoop the driving dynamics were changed beyond recognition. I'm "proficient" behind the wheel, and sideways isn't my normal modus operandi, but with the seats fitted I found I could feel precisely what was going on beneath me. On roads I know well, I found myself drifting through high speed corners with a dab of oppo (actually the car was so good, it needed nothing more than a soupcon of oppo even at faintly ridiculous speeds) and ultimately this became the reason I sold the car (more of which later)
I got Matt at Fearnsport to tweek the geo set up. The result was a car with waaay more grip (both front and rear) but it came at the expense of the previously benign breakaway, accordingly, on the limit the car became snappier.
The steering feel was improved and it's weight lessened. I replaced the nasty smooth leather wheel and had a replacement trimmed in Alicante
(You'll have to have watched a video that has been much pilloried by PH to get that one..... ! !) :
It made the car feel more special, and improved my "connectivity" with it.
Gearbox : Does what it says on the tin. Quite frankly it was so good, it was dull, It had no character, and required no skill to use.
Brakes : Ok, but under serious duress they exhibited typical pre-F30 BMW M division lack of durability. I fitted these :
If anyone ever tells you unsprung weight on a road car isn't an issue, they're talking complete bullsh*t.
Fitment of the AP 368mm discs and 6 pots took the car to another level. The standard brakes are powerful, they just lack durability. The AP's were in another league, and hand on heart I'd say the items I fitted to both the 1M Coupe and my old CSL were superior to any standard Porsche brakes I've used (996 GT2, 996 GT3/RS and 997 GT3, 993/964 RS)
Massively powerful, the slightest pressure on the middle pedal would stand the car on it's nose time after time from 100+ Leptons effortlessly (and 100+ Leptons is very easily attained with that oh so grunty N54 engine)
But the other massive difference was to the car's steering. With several kilos (lots I suspect) of OE disc and cast iron calipers/carriers removed, the steering was drastically changed, it became lighter (less gyroscopic force) and the improvement in the car's turn in and stability was a revelation.
But that wasn't all, the reduced unsprung weight allowed the car's dampers and springs to perform as their makers intended. Whereas the car on its OE Michelin PS2 tyres (NOT PS3's as a previous poster suggested) had previously thumped heavily over old/raised cats eyes, with the lighter brakes it now glided over them, with no bump thump at all.
Engine : It may not have the character of the CSL, but as a useable powerplant for devouring just about any road conditions, it was pretty much peerless (and suited the brawny 1M coupe perfectly)
As a former owner of a couple of 996 GT2's, the 1M provided phenomenal snap overtaking abilities that were the equal of the Uber Porsche. Opportunities most cars couldn't dream of exploiting ......
My white car was better screwed together than the early Valencia example (and hadn't been tracked/abused by it's previous owner)
So why did I sell ? Those of you who frequent the Porsche forum will know we have a "character" by the name of Mr Demon on there. Mr Demon worships at the alter of the Cayman R to the exclusion of ANY other car. In short the Cayman R is the fastest, best braked, best suspended, most perfectly geared car on planet earth today. Which is great if you want to get from A to B as quickly as possible in a car that lacks (from my perspective) any real tactility, engagement or feeling of being "special". In short (for me) it's not all about the ultimate speed.
And so it was with the 1M, it's performance is mighty, it's also very accessible. And therein lay the rub, as at some point, driving that quickly on the public road (untroubled by other traffic in the wilds of Wales) I could see that my ownership was going to end in a shunt, and when it happened, it would've been a massive one.
I'd planned to fit some decent coilovers to the car, but with the seats, brakes and geo "sorted", it became clear that improving the suspension would've been gilding the lily.
Accordingly I sold the white car at the bottom of the market in August of 2013 ......
Shaoxter said:
Don't get why these have held their values so well (apart from lack of supply obviously). Surely they will drop when the M2 comes out?
There's so many other more exciting cars you could have for £35-40k... Or maybe I need to drive one to see what the fuss is all about
Agree, seems bit odd. Much more interesting options for that sort of moneyThere's so many other more exciting cars you could have for £35-40k... Or maybe I need to drive one to see what the fuss is all about
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Glad to hear you're erring towards keeping. The SVP car is great car to drive, and as you've said, you don't need to do the "whole" conversion in one hit, or indeed ever. Look forward to you heading up to this neck of the woods again. hopefully we'll have more time to chew the fat !anonymous said:
[redacted]
The OE seats "ruined" my ownership experience and played havoc with my back. 
The brakes merely "irritated" as I always harboured concerns that if I used them as you would ANY Porsche brakes, the discs would warp and the steering start a shakin'. Something I hate with a passion. Geo ? Well I tend to geo any car new to the fold, there's a lot of muppets out there who think that a modern car's suspension is designed to be driven down potholes at unabated speed .......
The decat was a spur of the moment thing, and as 99.9 % of BMW teccys wouldn't notice the N55 part had been fitted, seemed a worthwhile "upgrade" that wouldn't affect the car's warranty .....
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I think they're an acquired taste, no doubt about it. But in light of the new F30 M3/4, I think they got closer to a fun to drive/enthusiasts car. They ain't no a CSL, but at £40k in 2010, they were a damn sight cheaper than the CSL back in 2003/4. I'd say the 1M was a clever parts bin engineering exercise that showed there are some still some petrolheads with a sense of humour in M Power division (though I'm wondering if they turned the lights out and closed the door after the 1M was completed .......)
I guess we'll see when the M2 is launched. I know it won't be the N/A, cable throttled, manual/non assited racked, manual transmissioned panacea you're after, but hopefully it'll be a better effort than the F30 M3/4 !
s m said:
Great post Slippy - thanks for taking the time to do it.
Very interesting read
Always a pleasure ! ! PH can be great for garnering opposing views on interesting metal.Very interesting read
I saw your car in Wales a couple of times
I have a great neighbour, she let me drive her orange 1m when it was just a week or so old. Even though I had to watch the revs as it was in the run in period it was an amazing drive.
It still looks great and is a handy aid for describing where we are to taxi drivers and visitors - we're the house next to the orange bmw. They find us everytime!
It still looks great and is a handy aid for describing where we are to taxi drivers and visitors - we're the house next to the orange bmw. They find us everytime!
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