RE: BMW 1 Series M Coupe: PH Heroes

RE: BMW 1 Series M Coupe: PH Heroes

Author
Discussion

Numeric

1,393 posts

150 months

Sunday 21st December 2014
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I realise that it's likely not a patch on the 'real' one but we just picked up an M135i manual (after much debate on the box) and I really love it's old school charm if that makes sense - all a bit silly and in it's way not quite perfect and that makes it really lovely, sort of hairy chested and needs thinking about rather than point and squirt. Bloody quick too.

So with cars becoming almost too polished I can well understand the appeal of the 1M, especially if it looks a little different too. I really would have loved one, but the difference between £40k and £22k for a daily driver was too much for the wallet!

aeropilot

34,299 posts

226 months

Sunday 21st December 2014
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Bladedancer said:
But more to the point, doesn't the blower spoil the traditional BMW N/A feel?
BMW were at the forefront of turbocharging in the late 60's and through the 70's, n/a is only seen as traditional by those too young to know that or those who deliberately choose to gloss over that fact.

Personally, I think the BMW turbo engine in my 135 is immense.


cidered77

1,614 posts

196 months

Sunday 21st December 2014
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s m said:
Slippydiff said:
The steering feel was improved and it's weight lessened. I replaced the nasty smooth leather wheel and had a replacement trimmed in Alicante biggrin (You'll have to have watched a video that has been much pilloried by PH to get that one..... ! !) :

Was your wheel done by Royal out of interest?
Jack at Royalsteeringwheels.co.uk did mine - fantastic job



cidered77

1,614 posts

196 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
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aeropilot said:
Bladedancer said:
But more to the point, doesn't the blower spoil the traditional BMW N/A feel?
BMW were at the forefront of turbocharging in the late 60's and through the 70's, n/a is only seen as traditional by those too young to know that or those who deliberately choose to gloss over that fact.

Personally, I think the BMW turbo engine in my 135 is immense.
maybe this is blasphemy - but I think a lot of the whole N/A vs. turbo thing is massively hammed up by the motoring press.

I read about the "instant throttle response" for example, and read about the wait for turbos to spool up - but in my Clio Trophy (which I love, but not for the engine as such), absolutely nothing happens until it comes on cam at 5k - same for the various VTECs I've driven and on a different scale a Ferrari 360. They might as well have turbos for the on/off nature of how they drive before and after the interesting part of the rev-band. And throttle response itself? it's a thing maybe, but tiny relative to the advantages that turbos bring (the torque for one thing - let alone the more boring practical stuff like economy and much much more power).

I think the E46 M3's engine is great, I've driven maybe 350 miles in one and loved it. But whilst I miss the noise, I don't think i'd swap it for a second for the kick in the backside that 369lb-ft of of torque gives you from pretty much any gear, and throttle response is never a big enough factor for me to notice in a car, unless it's especially bad- which I few modern cars are. I think powerful N/A engines are now pretty much anachronism, and the world moves on... forced induction is just, 'better', from what I've driven at least.

I wonder how many passionate views for or against are based on serious mileage, vs, what you read in Evo...

ChrisBuer

628 posts

224 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
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I had one and sold it a month ago.

Great cars and very enjoyable to drive, but using it daily to drive to the local park and ride (a round trip of about 5 miles) wasn't the best use of the car. So I bought myself a little run around instead and sold the 1M.

That said, it never missed a beat and was very capable! A fast, comfortable and pretty much depreciation proof car. What more could you want smile


















SRM355

334 posts

158 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
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Best most fun car I've ever owned, petrol head brilliance by BMW! Can't wait for the M2, BMW please make it as much fun as the 1M with a decent engine note - drove an M4 recently which sounded pants by comparison.

All I would say for anybody who thinks they are over-hyped, go drive one....

cidered77

1,614 posts

196 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
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ChrisBuer said:
I had one and sold it a month ago.

Great cars and very enjoyable to drive, but using it daily to drive to the local park and ride (a round trip of about 5 miles) wasn't the best use of the car. So I bought myself a little run around instead and sold the 1M.

That said, it never missed a beat and was very capable! A fast, comfortable and pretty much depreciation proof car. What more could you want smile

Chris - did you find the extra power improved it? I mean, extra power is usually always fun - but I'm in two minds on whether to push on with mine, in truth even with the PSSs replacing PS2s it feels like it has as much power as the chassis can handle, and would be flashing that yellow light all the time with that much shove?

Guvernator

13,105 posts

164 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
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cidered77 said:
maybe this is blasphemy - but I think a lot of the whole N/A vs. turbo thing is massively hammed up by the motoring press.

I read about the "instant throttle response" for example, and read about the wait for turbos to spool up - but in my Clio Trophy (which I love, but not for the engine as such), absolutely nothing happens until it comes on cam at 5k - same for the various VTECs I've driven and on a different scale a Ferrari 360. They might as well have turbos for the on/off nature of how they drive before and after the interesting part of the rev-band. And throttle response itself? it's a thing maybe, but tiny relative to the advantages that turbos bring (the torque for one thing - let alone the more boring practical stuff like economy and much much more power).

I think the E46 M3's engine is great, I've driven maybe 350 miles in one and loved it. But whilst I miss the noise, I don't think i'd swap it for a second for the kick in the backside that 369lb-ft of of torque gives you from pretty much any gear, and throttle response is never a big enough factor for me to notice in a car, unless it's especially bad- which I few modern cars are. I think powerful N/A engines are now pretty much anachronism, and the world moves on... forced induction is just, 'better', from what I've driven at least.

I wonder how many passionate views for or against are based on serious mileage, vs, what you read in Evo...
Two of the best cars I've owned have been turbocharged so I know they can work and work well. As you've stated, that slug of torque in the back is brilliant and often a lot more appealing than what can sometimes feel like the glacial pick up NA, especially if you are caught in the wrong gear. I'm also not good enough driver to worry about throttle response unless they've got it massively wrong which I know can happen.

However what I don't like are the way modern turbocharged engines are tuned. Yes that low down torque is useful but they seem to concentrate on the low-mid end at the exclusion of everything else. My 335i was absolutely perfect 90% of the time but on those occasions where I wanted to have a little play, it seemed to run out of ideas just when I was expecting it to kick it up a notch. The last 1000 revs felt strangled and breathless and the relatively low 6500rpm rev limit meant the engine would call time on the fun, just at the point when I wanted it to really show me what it could do. Emission regulations are probably to blame for a lot of this but to me this is one of the main problems with modern turbo engines.

A Subaru Sti and previous generation Skyline were heavily turbocharged too but both loved to rev to over 8000rpm and while they both had great mid-range, if you felt in the mood, there was great fun to be had in stretching out the engines. The last 2000rpm was scintillating and the noise they made while they were doing it was spine-tingling. If someone could design a modern engine that kicked in strong at 1500rpm but then maintained that all the way to a 8000rpm+ redline I'd be all in, as it is I find the diesel like delivery a bit, well boring.

Patrick Bateman

12,143 posts

173 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
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I'd disagree with that take on the Clio Trophy. Sure it's best work is after 5k rpm but it's not massively lacking. Always feels pretty urgent and the throttle response is razor sharp, far more so than anything else I've driven.

Edited by Patrick Bateman on Monday 22 December 20:21

aeropilot

34,299 posts

226 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
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Guvernator said:
My 335i was absolutely perfect 90% of the time but on those occasions where I wanted to have a little play, it seemed to run out of ideas just when I was expecting it to kick it up a notch. The last 1000 revs felt strangled and breathless and the relatively low 6500rpm rev limit meant the engine would call time on the fun, just at the point when I wanted it to really show me what it could do. Emission regulations are probably to blame for a lot of this
No, on the 335i (pressuming it was the original N54 engine) it's the somewhat small size of the two snails that cause the engine to run out of top end puff.





tjob

782 posts

150 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
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If anyone is looking to sell their 1M (or something equally as cool & rare) please drop me a PM smile

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
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cidered77 said:
Chris - did you find the extra power improved it? I mean, extra power is usually always fun - but I'm in two minds on whether to push on with mine, in truth even with the PSSs replacing PS2s it feels like it has as much power as the chassis can handle,
My experiences in the two cars I owned led me to believe just that. They say you can never have enough power, but I'm not wholly convinced the E82 chassis needed more than 350hp (certainly round the twisty bits anyhow) In standard form it was a blistering overtaking weapon (but when it comes to overtaking lines of cars you can't have too many gee gees)

Guvernator

13,105 posts

164 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
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aeropilot said:
Guvernator said:
My 335i was absolutely perfect 90% of the time but on those occasions where I wanted to have a little play, it seemed to run out of ideas just when I was expecting it to kick it up a notch. The last 1000 revs felt strangled and breathless and the relatively low 6500rpm rev limit meant the engine would call time on the fun, just at the point when I wanted it to really show me what it could do. Emission regulations are probably to blame for a lot of this
No, on the 335i (pressuming it was the original N54 engine) it's the somewhat small size of the two snails that cause the engine to run out of top end puff.

Yes I know but the reason WHY they choose small turbos is firstly for emissions and secondly to give that low to mid range response that seems to be popular with a lot of people, unfortunately both are detrimental to top end fizz.

Plus I'm not sure the N54 block would run to a much higher limit anyway even with bigger turbos as it's not been built with that in mind. Basically the design philosophy seems to be opposite to what I'd expect in a performance engine but a lot of this is down to the EU making it ever more difficult to make decent performance engines. I never thought I'd say this but it may be that the modern in-fill type hybrid performance engines are the answer.

kmpowell

2,918 posts

227 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
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The 1M was the most exciting car I've owned and by far the best car I've ever driven. That includes the TVR.

It's been 2yrs since I let it go, but to this day I deeply deeply miss it.

I'd have another in a heartbeat if my circumstances were different. A modern classic that does everything brilliantly!

aeropilot

34,299 posts

226 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
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Guvernator said:
Yes I know but the reason WHY they choose small turbos is firstly for emissions and secondly to give that low to mid range response that seems to be popular with a lot of people, unfortunately both are detrimental to top end fizz.
You'll also find, that's it's also naff all room for anything bigger, which is why there has not been much in the way of aftermarket larger turbo kit's for the N54.....there's just not the room for them wink

Guvernator said:
Plus I'm not sure the N54 block would run to a much higher limit anyway even with bigger turbos as it's not been built with that in mind.
The N54 has a forged steel crank and rods - it's plenty strong enough for 450-500hp figures, there's many pushing those power levels in the USA on the OEM bottom end.


s m

23,164 posts

202 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
quotequote all
cidered77 said:
s m said:
Slippydiff said:
The steering feel was improved and it's weight lessened. I replaced the nasty smooth leather wheel and had a replacement trimmed in Alicante biggrin (You'll have to have watched a video that has been much pilloried by PH to get that one..... ! !) :

Was your wheel done by Royal out of interest?
Jack at Royalsteeringwheels.co.uk did mine - fantastic job


I like how you've all had them covered slightly differently smile

Guvernator

13,105 posts

164 months

Tuesday 23rd December 2014
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aeropilot said:
The N54 has a forged steel crank and rods - it's plenty strong enough for 450-500hp figures, there's many pushing those power levels in the USA on the OEM bottom end.
I think you've misunderstood me. I wasn't really talking about power as it doesn't really need more power, it needs the ability to rev properly and by this I mean 8000rpm AND produce meaningful power at the top of that rev range which is a different challenge than just making sure it can handle lots of BHP.

I understand their isn't much room in the engine bay for larger turbos but as I stated earlier, the N54 and indeed most modern turbo engines aren't really designed with top end fizz in mind. It's easier to meet emission levels and please lazy drivers who just want a car that's effortless to drive by designing an engine that delivers most of it's useful work in the mid-range.

However this isn't very exciting for me, especially when you've sampled something that IMO is better in sports car terms. Go drive an RB26 engined GT-R too see how to make a properly exciting turbo engine. Sure it kicks in a little later than a modern engine but it still produces lots of mid-range grunt but more importantly, it absolutely sings round to it's 8250rpm limit. Check out this video to see what I mean.

GT-R revs

I've sampled both a 1M and several RB26 engined GT-R's and despite the 20 years "progress", I know which one I prefer.

MK1RS Bruce

666 posts

137 months

Tuesday 23rd December 2014
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cidered77 said:
ChrisBuer said:
I had one and sold it a month ago.

Great cars and very enjoyable to drive, but using it daily to drive to the local park and ride (a round trip of about 5 miles) wasn't the best use of the car. So I bought myself a little run around instead and sold the 1M.

That said, it never missed a beat and was very capable! A fast, comfortable and pretty much depreciation proof car. What more could you want smile

Chris - did you find the extra power improved it? I mean, extra power is usually always fun - but I'm in two minds on whether to push on with mine, in truth even with the PSSs replacing PS2s it feels like it has as much power as the chassis can handle, and would be flashing that yellow light all the time with that much shove?
Just turn off the traction control then the little yellow light won't flash! wink

shost

825 posts

142 months

Tuesday 23rd December 2014
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I will struggle to find a better car, or better investment for its price point. I've kept it totally standard. I'm only upgrading the rubber to PSS. Have them on the front and will upgrade the rears in due course. Hope that will make the breakaway more predictable without stopping the oversteer completely. The livelyness is a massive part of the appeal.

Love how it makes every journey memorable. My only regret is not driving it often enough lately, having bought a commuter car for work.

ChrisBuer

628 posts

224 months

Tuesday 23rd December 2014
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cidered77 said:
Chris - did you find the extra power improved it? I mean, extra power is usually always fun - but I'm in two minds on whether to push on with mine, in truth even with the PSSs replacing PS2s it feels like it has as much power as the chassis can handle, and would be flashing that yellow light all the time with that much shove?
In a word yes. However I would say that the standard car struggles to put down the power with the standard PS2 tyres and standard geo set up. After fitting Pilot Super Sports and having Ray West amend the geo for me, it was a lot better, but it still flashed away under heavy acceleration.

It was only bad under low speed acceleration but when you were in gear at around 50-60mph, it was pretty brutal.

It's a wonderful car and I do miss mine, but if I were to have another one, I'd definitely have it remapped again. It's like a whole new car when you do smile