North Sea oil industry 'close to collapse'
Discussion
Devil2575 said:
whoami said:
Devil2575 said:
No one goes into contracting with the expectation that the good times will last very long.
Unfortunately, loads of folk go into contracting thinking just that.What is interesting, historically, about contracting in the oil industry is that it has attracted people of a lower overall level of education but also a far stronger appetite for risk than say contracting in the two other premium sectors of finance and IT. This does mean that there has been a higher percentage of people who spend as fast as they earn.
The keeping up with the Jones effect in Aberdeen even surpasses that of Chigwell and Cholmesdly.
If you look at the growth of 'funds under management' in the Aberdeen IFA/investment market what is interesting is that in the boom times the growth rate of investment only increases among the blue chip, premium managers. It doesn't increase in line with income at the conventional consumer end. So it's only the already wealthy who increase their savings significantly during boom periods, whereas the remainder increase their spending not saving during this period.
But we see this in all boom markets, it is a common effect. In financials very many high earners have no savings but huge spending commitments and it is why there was a whole industry of effectively pawn broking future bonus payments because people who were earning a £60k basic but getting £100k+ bonuses were not living £60k lifestyles but £200k ones and needing to borrow against the next bonus payment.
And then look at how people didn't aelf regulate over credit cards.
The simple reality is that we humans don't on average plan well for the future.
DonkeyApple said:
What is interesting, historically, about contracting in the oil industry is that it has attracted people of a lower overall level of education but also a far stronger appetite for risk than say contracting in the two other premium sectors of finance and IT. This does mean that there has been a higher percentage of people who spend as fast as they earn.
The keeping up with the Jones effect in Aberdeen even surpasses that of Chigwell and Cholmesdly.
Absolutely spot on. The baby factory suburbs are awash with contractors who would be on an average UK salary if it weren't for the oil industry. There are a heck of a lot of non-working wives and it would appear to be absolutely essential to have a sub 3 year old car or two on the drive. I have no sympathy for them at all if they've not been setting funds aside for leaner times.The keeping up with the Jones effect in Aberdeen even surpasses that of Chigwell and Cholmesdly.
Thankfully, I'm of the sort that couldn't give a f
k what the neighbours have or do 
rossub said:
Absolutely spot on. The baby factory suburbs are awash with contractors who would be on an average UK salary if it weren't for the oil industry. There are a heck of a lot of non-working wives and it would appear to be absolutely essential to have a sub 3 year old car or two on the drive. I have no sympathy for them at all if they've not been setting funds aside for leaner times.
Thankfully, I'm of the sort that couldn't give a fk what the neighbours have or do
But clearly if they all lose their jobs default on mortgages as they have no £ - who loses out? Give owned banks who pays out the cost to house them and pay them JSA dole Who gives another company vast grants to set up shop in that locality to stop the destruction of a great city? Who has to pay more in tax or accept less public sector output ?Thankfully, I'm of the sort that couldn't give a f
k what the neighbours have or do Every single person in the UK is impacted in one way or another.
What I do hope the energy companies and Govt is doing is buying vast reserves /futures at the current prices let's fix the ongoing cost to provide energy to the UK at a every low level for many years to come
Devil2575 said:
whoami said:
Devil2575 said:
No one goes into contracting with the expectation that the good times will last very long.
Unfortunately, loads of folk go into contracting thinking just that.DonkeyApple said:
Stuff
I remember the credit card boom well thanks. I had an MBNA credit card with a £14k limit which at the time was more than my annual salary. However none of what you said changes the fact that financial institutions have a responsibility to understand the risks they are taking and not act irresponsibly. If companies are irresponsible when not regulated I lay the blame at the door of the company not the regulator. I see no fundamental problem with debt and allowing people to buy houses is a good thing. If lenders then extend credit to people who cannot afford to repay that is their fault.
Devil2575 said:
DonkeyApple said:
Stuff
I remember the credit card boom well thanks. I had an MBNA credit card with a £14k limit which at the time was more than my annual salary. However none of what you said changes the fact that financial institutions have a responsibility to understand the risks they are taking and not act irresponsibly. If companies are irresponsible when not regulated I lay the blame at the door of the company not the regulator. I see no fundamental problem with debt and allowing people to buy houses is a good thing. If lenders then extend credit to people who cannot afford to repay that is their fault.
Ergo regulation exists to fill the void which you say should naturally exist. And everyone knows exactly what happens when you lift those restrictions and controls. Especially those that lifted them for financial and political gain.
It's frog/scorpion stuff. And you can go back nearly 1000 years to Friday 13th to see why or back to the old test enemy and the religious governance over usary. When the Church stopped being able to regulate lending through fear then formal regulatory bodies came into being. Usary doesn't self regulate regardless of how right we all are in have a moral expectation for it to do so.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Saturday 20th December 21:03
Tomo1971 said:
So hold on here....
Price of crude is going down, price of fuel at the pumps is going down helping the 'little people' who may now get an extra £10 to £20 a week in their pocket.
So to help the oil companies in their 'hour of need' we should pay more for fuel so that they can earn more. Erm No, FRO. Where were they when the litre was £1.40 +? Were they dropping their cut to help US? No.
Get Tae Fu&k.
Private companies been far too greedy and bowing to shareholders to deliver dividends and not thinking of the future and keeping some profits aside in their time of need.
Not my problem pal.
i remember 1-2 years ago when the prices were through the roof and the industry were making record profits, the answer was always "the price of oil is set globally so there is nothing we can do to reduce prices." Every time BP or Shell announced another bumper quarterly profit the same answers were wheeled out as the public were getting screwed over the oil price.Price of crude is going down, price of fuel at the pumps is going down helping the 'little people' who may now get an extra £10 to £20 a week in their pocket.
So to help the oil companies in their 'hour of need' we should pay more for fuel so that they can earn more. Erm No, FRO. Where were they when the litre was £1.40 +? Were they dropping their cut to help US? No.
Get Tae Fu&k.
Private companies been far too greedy and bowing to shareholders to deliver dividends and not thinking of the future and keeping some profits aside in their time of need.
Not my problem pal.
Now it's the other way around, surely the same answer applies to them.
When the oil price was rising rapidly gas shot up as well as we were told the prices were linked, so if oil went up gas had to go up, as oil has come down have we seen a drop in the gas price, or will that have to wait until after everyone has paid the higher price over winter?
I remember seeing some program about north sea oil and it was stated that when it first discovered and the contracts signed, the companies could recover all their exploration costs before paying any tax or revenue, the result was in the 70s the country was deep in recession and the only people getting any money from the north sea where the oil companies, and this is what triggered the rules about not being able to do it in future.
I assume it's the same logic which is now being applied to the banks to limit thier writing off of losses against tax
Horse Pop said:
World's smallest violin etc.
What a shame the politics of envy are out in force. If you saw what the average rig worker does for a living and how they live, the constant uncertainty, cruddy food, 12hr shifts, family separation, poor telecoms etc etc etc, you wouldn't begrudge them their {relatively, not excessively} high salaries. It's not as well paid as you think and they utterly deserve it IMO.Siko said:
What a shame the politics of envy are out in force. If you saw what the average rig worker does for a living and how they live, the constant uncertainty, cruddy food, 12hr shifts, family separation, poor telecoms etc etc etc, you wouldn't begrudge them their {relatively, not excessively} high salaries. It's not as well paid as you think and they utterly deserve it IMO.
The food on the rigs I worked on was excellent.The 12hr shifts is hard but many of the service providers are not working flat out all of that time, lot's of waiting around. The long days also meant a lot of time off. Most folk I know get more time off now than time on the rig.
There are also a lot of people onshore who earn A LOT for not a lot. That's just the way it is...
Where there's money, there will be envy.
Tomo1971 said:
So hold on here....
Price of crude is going down, price of fuel at the pumps is going down helping the 'little people' who may now get an extra £10 to £20 a week in their pocket.
So to help the oil companies in their 'hour of need' we should pay more for fuel so that they can earn more. Erm No, FRO. Where were they when the litre was £1.40 +? Were they dropping their cut to help US? No.
Get Tae Fu&k.
Private companies been far too greedy and bowing to shareholders to deliver dividends and not thinking of the future and keeping some profits aside in their time of need.
Not my problem pal.
This post sums it up just about perfectly. Price of crude is going down, price of fuel at the pumps is going down helping the 'little people' who may now get an extra £10 to £20 a week in their pocket.
So to help the oil companies in their 'hour of need' we should pay more for fuel so that they can earn more. Erm No, FRO. Where were they when the litre was £1.40 +? Were they dropping their cut to help US? No.
Get Tae Fu&k.
Private companies been far too greedy and bowing to shareholders to deliver dividends and not thinking of the future and keeping some profits aside in their time of need.
Not my problem pal.
Devil2575 said:
whoami said:
Devil2575 said:
No one goes into contracting with the expectation that the good times will last very long.
Unfortunately, loads of folk go into contracting thinking just that.If you don't plan for the worst then you should not be contracting.
Siko said:
Horse Pop said:
World's smallest violin etc.
What a shame the politics of envy are out in force. If you saw what the average rig worker does for a living and how they live, the constant uncertainty, cruddy food, 12hr shifts, family separation, poor telecoms etc etc etc, you wouldn't begrudge them their {relatively, not excessively} high salaries. It's not as well paid as you think and they utterly deserve it IMO.LaurasOtherHalf said:
Tomo1971 said:
So hold on here....
Price of crude is going down, price of fuel at the pumps is going down helping the 'little people' who may now get an extra £10 to £20 a week in their pocket.
So to help the oil companies in their 'hour of need' we should pay more for fuel so that they can earn more. Erm No, FRO. Where were they when the litre was £1.40 +? Were they dropping their cut to help US? No.
Get Tae Fu&k.
Private companies been far too greedy and bowing to shareholders to deliver dividends and not thinking of the future and keeping some profits aside in their time of need.
Not my problem pal.
This post sums it up just about perfectly. Price of crude is going down, price of fuel at the pumps is going down helping the 'little people' who may now get an extra £10 to £20 a week in their pocket.
So to help the oil companies in their 'hour of need' we should pay more for fuel so that they can earn more. Erm No, FRO. Where were they when the litre was £1.40 +? Were they dropping their cut to help US? No.
Get Tae Fu&k.
Private companies been far too greedy and bowing to shareholders to deliver dividends and not thinking of the future and keeping some profits aside in their time of need.
Not my problem pal.
DonkeyApple said:
But that is irrelevant. Since the dawn of lending what man has known is that lending does not self regulate. Never has and never will.
Ergo regulation exists to fill the void which you say should naturally exist. And everyone knows exactly what happens when you lift those restrictions and controls. Especially those that lifted them for financial and political gain.
It's frog/scorpion stuff. And you can go back nearly 1000 years to Friday 13th to see why or back to the old test enemy and the religious governance over usary. When the Church stopped being able to regulate lending through fear then formal regulatory bodies came into being. Usary doesn't self regulate regardless of how right we all are in have a moral expectation for it to do so.
If a system doesn't self regulate it's because of the people who operate it. There is no fundamental reason why Usary shouldn't self regulate. It's entirely possible for any business to put in place checks and balances to stop individual's within them acting recklessly. Ergo regulation exists to fill the void which you say should naturally exist. And everyone knows exactly what happens when you lift those restrictions and controls. Especially those that lifted them for financial and political gain.
It's frog/scorpion stuff. And you can go back nearly 1000 years to Friday 13th to see why or back to the old test enemy and the religious governance over usary. When the Church stopped being able to regulate lending through fear then formal regulatory bodies came into being. Usary doesn't self regulate regardless of how right we all are in have a moral expectation for it to do so.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Saturday 20th December 21:03
Devil2575 said:
DonkeyApple said:
But that is irrelevant. Since the dawn of lending what man has known is that lending does not self regulate. Never has and never will.
Ergo regulation exists to fill the void which you say should naturally exist. And everyone knows exactly what happens when you lift those restrictions and controls. Especially those that lifted them for financial and political gain.
It's frog/scorpion stuff. And you can go back nearly 1000 years to Friday 13th to see why or back to the old test enemy and the religious governance over usary. When the Church stopped being able to regulate lending through fear then formal regulatory bodies came into being. Usary doesn't self regulate regardless of how right we all are in have a moral expectation for it to do so.
If a system doesn't self regulate it's because of the people who operate it. There is no fundamental reason why Usary shouldn't self regulate. It's entirely possible for any business to put in place checks and balances to stop individual's within them acting recklessly. Ergo regulation exists to fill the void which you say should naturally exist. And everyone knows exactly what happens when you lift those restrictions and controls. Especially those that lifted them for financial and political gain.
It's frog/scorpion stuff. And you can go back nearly 1000 years to Friday 13th to see why or back to the old test enemy and the religious governance over usary. When the Church stopped being able to regulate lending through fear then formal regulatory bodies came into being. Usary doesn't self regulate regardless of how right we all are in have a moral expectation for it to do so.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Saturday 20th December 21:03
Back to the oil industry.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Tomo1971 said:
So hold on here....
Price of crude is going down, price of fuel at the pumps is going down helping the 'little people' who may now get an extra £10 to £20 a week in their pocket.
So to help the oil companies in their 'hour of need' we should pay more for fuel so that they can earn more. Erm No, FRO. Where were they when the litre was £1.40 +? Were they dropping their cut to help US? No.
Get Tae Fu&k.
Private companies been far too greedy and bowing to shareholders to deliver dividends and not thinking of the future and keeping some profits aside in their time of need.
Not my problem pal.
This post sums it up just about perfectly. Price of crude is going down, price of fuel at the pumps is going down helping the 'little people' who may now get an extra £10 to £20 a week in their pocket.
So to help the oil companies in their 'hour of need' we should pay more for fuel so that they can earn more. Erm No, FRO. Where were they when the litre was £1.40 +? Were they dropping their cut to help US? No.
Get Tae Fu&k.
Private companies been far too greedy and bowing to shareholders to deliver dividends and not thinking of the future and keeping some profits aside in their time of need.
Not my problem pal.
You live by the sword, you die by the sword I guess.
DonkeyApple said:
No it isn't. Simple as that. History from the dawn of money lending right up to today proves that irrevocably. End of, I'm afraid.
Back to the oil industry.
Sorry but that's rubbish. Just because they haven't historically been able too doesn't mean it isn't possible.Back to the oil industry.
The problem these days is also a lot to do with all the industries that support the oil companies.
You only have to see prices in Aberdeen and the attitudes of offshore companies to see how they are milking the industry for every single penny they can while times are good. Hotels in Aberdeen are a prime example of this. Over the past 12 months I have spent many a night staying in hotels in Aberdeen. Either working ad-hoc in the office or prior to travel offshore. Finding a hotel room under £120 is rare. During periods of bad weather when hotels are fully booked we've seen crap holes that would normally barely be able to rent a room for £40-60 a night charging up to £350 purely because they know the oil companies are paying.
I've seen first hand the attitude of some people offshore which is basically 'milk the company for as much as possible while doing as little as possible'. This is the attitude that changes profitability from $10 a bbl to $60 a bbl. You can barely place the blame solely on the large oil companies.
You only have to see prices in Aberdeen and the attitudes of offshore companies to see how they are milking the industry for every single penny they can while times are good. Hotels in Aberdeen are a prime example of this. Over the past 12 months I have spent many a night staying in hotels in Aberdeen. Either working ad-hoc in the office or prior to travel offshore. Finding a hotel room under £120 is rare. During periods of bad weather when hotels are fully booked we've seen crap holes that would normally barely be able to rent a room for £40-60 a night charging up to £350 purely because they know the oil companies are paying.
I've seen first hand the attitude of some people offshore which is basically 'milk the company for as much as possible while doing as little as possible'. This is the attitude that changes profitability from $10 a bbl to $60 a bbl. You can barely place the blame solely on the large oil companies.
Devil2575 said:
DonkeyApple said:
No it isn't. Simple as that. History from the dawn of money lending right up to today proves that irrevocably. End of, I'm afraid.
Back to the oil industry.
Sorry but that's rubbish. Just because they haven't historically been able too doesn't mean it isn't possible.Back to the oil industry.
I'm a little bit staggered that the lesson of 2008 and self regulation, or what Brown referred to as his 'light touch' has been so quickly forgotten!!!
I'm afraid that you are 100% incorrect. Morally it would be lovely but it's a dreamworld and a total failing to understand both human and crowd culture as well as ignore both recent and all history to try and put forward a belief that financial institutions or any group involved in any aspect of money can do so without regulation to protect the population.
DonkeyApple said:
Devil2575 said:
DonkeyApple said:
No it isn't. Simple as that. History from the dawn of money lending right up to today proves that irrevocably. End of, I'm afraid.
Back to the oil industry.
Sorry but that's rubbish. Just because they haven't historically been able too doesn't mean it isn't possible.Back to the oil industry.
I'm a little bit staggered that the lesson of 2008 and self regulation, or what Brown referred to as his 'light touch' has been so quickly forgotten!!!
I'm afraid that you are 100% incorrect. Morally it would be lovely but it's a dreamworld and a total failing to understand both human and crowd culture as well as ignore both recent and all history to try and put forward a belief that financial institutions or any group involved in any aspect of money can do so without regulation to protect the population.
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