North Sea oil industry 'close to collapse'
Discussion
A lot of heartless people on this thread, especially coming up to Christmas, which is always a bad time for us Contractors anyway. I like most contractors have just had a serious rate cut and the prospects of lay offs are being mooted. Therefore here is your chance to show you care at Christmas.
It’s that time of year again...... Sponsor a Contractor For Christmas
With the effects of IR35 (and contract terminations in the contract market around the globe looming due to the increasing fall in the oil price) now is the time for us to show the world just how much you care.
It's just not right. Hundreds of contractors in your very own country are living at or just below the six-figure
income level! And, as if that weren't bad enough, they will be deprived of pay for several days - possibly whole weeks - as a result of Christmas.
But now you can help!
For about five hundred pounds a day - that's less than the cost of a large screen projection TV - you can help a
contractor remain economically viable during his time of need.
Five hundred pounds a day may not seem like a lot of money to you, but to a contractor it could mean the difference between a holiday spent golfing in Florida or a Mediterranean cruise.
For you, five hundred pounds is nothing more than a month’s rent or mortgage payments. But to a contractor, five hundred pounds a day will almost replace his pay.
Your commitment of five hundred pounds a day will enable a contractor to buy that home entertainment centre, trade in the year-old Ferrari for a new TVR, or enjoy a weekend in Rio.
"HOW WILL I KNOW I'M HELPING?" Mr Leroy, Cambs.
Each month, you will receive a complete financial report on the contractor you sponsor. Detailed information about his stocks, bonds, property, and other investment holdings will be mailed to your home.
You'll also get information on how he plans to invest any spare cash he doesn't manage to spend. Plus upon
signing up for this program, you will receive a photo of the contractor. Put the photo on your refrigerator to remind you of other peoples' suffering.
"HOW WILL HE KNOW I'M HELPING?" Miss Bunn, Suffolk
Your contractor will be told that he has a SPECIAL FRIEND who just wants to help in a time of need. Although the contractor won't know your name, he will be able to make collect calls to your home via a special operator just in case additional funds are needed for unexpected expenses.
Simply fill out the form below. YES, I want to help!
I would like to sponsor a contractor over Christmas. My preference is checked below:
Project Engineer ***
Contracts Engineer*
Mechanical Engineer
I'll sponsor a contractor most in need. Please select one for me
Note:
How to Pay
Please charge the account listed below, £500 per day for a contractor for the xmas period.
Please send me a picture of the contractor I have sponsored, along with my very own corporate logo baseball cap to wear proudly on my head.
[ ] MasterCard [ ] Visa [ ] American Express [ ] Diner's Club
______________________
Telephone Number: ______________________
Card Number: ______________________
Exp.Date: _____
Signature: ______________________
Mail completed form to any major contract agency or call 0800-TOOMUCH now to enrol by phone. (Children under 18 must have parental approval.)
Note: Sponsors are not permitted to contact the contractor they have sponsored, either in person or by other means including, but not limited to, telephone calls, letters, e-mail, or third parties.
Keep in mind that the contractor you have sponsored will be much too busy enjoying his free time, thanks to your generous donations.
Contributions are not tax-deductible
It’s that time of year again...... Sponsor a Contractor For Christmas
With the effects of IR35 (and contract terminations in the contract market around the globe looming due to the increasing fall in the oil price) now is the time for us to show the world just how much you care.
It's just not right. Hundreds of contractors in your very own country are living at or just below the six-figure
income level! And, as if that weren't bad enough, they will be deprived of pay for several days - possibly whole weeks - as a result of Christmas.
But now you can help!
For about five hundred pounds a day - that's less than the cost of a large screen projection TV - you can help a
contractor remain economically viable during his time of need.
Five hundred pounds a day may not seem like a lot of money to you, but to a contractor it could mean the difference between a holiday spent golfing in Florida or a Mediterranean cruise.
For you, five hundred pounds is nothing more than a month’s rent or mortgage payments. But to a contractor, five hundred pounds a day will almost replace his pay.
Your commitment of five hundred pounds a day will enable a contractor to buy that home entertainment centre, trade in the year-old Ferrari for a new TVR, or enjoy a weekend in Rio.
"HOW WILL I KNOW I'M HELPING?" Mr Leroy, Cambs.
Each month, you will receive a complete financial report on the contractor you sponsor. Detailed information about his stocks, bonds, property, and other investment holdings will be mailed to your home.
You'll also get information on how he plans to invest any spare cash he doesn't manage to spend. Plus upon
signing up for this program, you will receive a photo of the contractor. Put the photo on your refrigerator to remind you of other peoples' suffering.
"HOW WILL HE KNOW I'M HELPING?" Miss Bunn, Suffolk
Your contractor will be told that he has a SPECIAL FRIEND who just wants to help in a time of need. Although the contractor won't know your name, he will be able to make collect calls to your home via a special operator just in case additional funds are needed for unexpected expenses.
Simply fill out the form below. YES, I want to help!
I would like to sponsor a contractor over Christmas. My preference is checked below:
Project Engineer ***
Contracts Engineer*
Mechanical Engineer
I'll sponsor a contractor most in need. Please select one for me
Note:
- Higher cost
- Much higher cost
- * Please call our free phone number to ask for the cost of a specific team
How to Pay
Please charge the account listed below, £500 per day for a contractor for the xmas period.
Please send me a picture of the contractor I have sponsored, along with my very own corporate logo baseball cap to wear proudly on my head.
[ ] MasterCard [ ] Visa [ ] American Express [ ] Diner's Club
______________________
Telephone Number: ______________________
Card Number: ______________________
Exp.Date: _____
Signature: ______________________
Mail completed form to any major contract agency or call 0800-TOOMUCH now to enrol by phone. (Children under 18 must have parental approval.)
Note: Sponsors are not permitted to contact the contractor they have sponsored, either in person or by other means including, but not limited to, telephone calls, letters, e-mail, or third parties.
Keep in mind that the contractor you have sponsored will be much too busy enjoying his free time, thanks to your generous donations.
Contributions are not tax-deductible
Like the building industry and banking, I think everyone has sympathy with the little guys at the bottom who just want a job and want to work. Precisely zero sympathy for the companies who cream off profits and grow too fast in the fat times and didn't save for the lean times. In all of them some companies were not like this, but they will survive. The companies who thought the good times would never end deserve everything they get.
SteveSteveson said:
Like the building industry and banking, I think everyone has sympathy with the little guys at the bottom who just want a job and want to work. Precisely zero sympathy for the companies who cream off profits and grow too fast in the fat times and didn't save for the lean times. In all of them some companies were not like this, but they will survive. The companies who thought the good times would never end deserve everything they get.
These companies in all probability comprise a reasonable portion of whatever private pension provision people have. That's why I find it amusing when the great unwashed rail against the system they are complicit in sustaining. The reason they sack people is they are beholding to shareholders, nothing to do with business need in reality. They need to maximise short term profit and dividends which is why they're happy to get rid of skilled workers in downtimes and have to pay through the nose in the good times.
As for a 65K a year worker being able to save 'for the badtimes', that sort of money is barely enough to pay for a 500K house, a leased Audi and a nice summer holiday/winter skiing trip. You may as well be on the dole.
robinessex said:
Of course we don't need highly skilled engineers producing an absolutely essential product, that we all use and benefit from, for circa £65,000/yr. We need lots of bankers in the city playing monopoly with real money, huge salaries and colossal bonuses, and when they f***k it all up, the government comes along with about a £1,000,000,000 and bails them out. Any bankers had their collars felt by PC plod yet?
Do you think the coal mines should be reopened supported with government money?Fittster said:
robinessex said:
Of course we don't need highly skilled engineers producing an absolutely essential product, that we all use and benefit from, for circa £65,000/yr. We need lots of bankers in the city playing monopoly with real money, huge salaries and colossal bonuses, and when they f***k it all up, the government comes along with about a £1,000,000,000 and bails them out. Any bankers had their collars felt by PC plod yet?
Do you think the coal mines should be reopened supported with government money?anonymous said:
[redacted]
Like with all volatile industries, the youngsters will have pissed much away thinking the good times were the norm. Some older ones will have pissed it away on divorces but most will have plenty in the bank to cover for lean stretches. Oil is really interesting at the moment as you have had several years of the U.S. flooding the market with supply and increasing production via shale oil but the moment China growth starts to slow and oil demand dropped the US expected OPEC to take the hit by cutting their supply but they haven't. They've instead chosen to b
h slap the US and drop the price of oil. What we have now is OPEC putting US shale oil offside and if the price stays down here for too long then the U.S. will either need to let their production excess go offline or start buying OPEC oil to bid the price up. Either way, OPEC is going to get a huge payday from the US.
But the US doesn't want to step in yet because on the other side this is bringing Russia to its knees. This has several upsides for the U.S. Obviously, it will put Russia back in its box over the current fight to oust Russia from military ports in the Med (Crimea and Syria). But most importantly it attacks Europe and Britain as it is our banks that have lent hugely to Russia. The U.S. has been attacking all the final UK exchanges and UK and EU banks as hard as possible for the last few years via regulatory assaults such as LIBOR to try and kill the UK dominance in FX and various direct attacks on specific banks but to have Russia default would mean a collapse of several UK and German banks.
It's interesting to watch. But Aberdeen will be fine as investment in high cost fields will go on hold and the UK govt benefits from fracking going away before the election and as a net importer of oil our BofP improves considerably. As well as obviously putting money in the pockets of voters via lower fuel costs.
Real value of oil is sub $20. 7 or so years ago it went under $40. It can easily do it again but is currently holding just under $60. If it does drop to the $40 mark then it will be a huge gift of a long trade over 18/24 months as it runs back up to $100 as economies get stimulated by low transport costs and the Bulls start the old 'peak oil' fear mongering again.
DonkeyApple said:
Like with all volatile industries, the youngsters will have pissed much away thinking the good times were the norm. Some older ones will have pissed it away on divorces but most will have plenty in the bank to cover for lean stretches.
Oil is really interesting at the moment as you have had several years of the U.S. flooding the market with supply and increasing production via shale oil but the moment China growth starts to slow and oil demand dropped the US expected OPEC to take the hit by cutting their supply but they haven't. They've instead chosen to bh slap the US and drop the price of oil.
What we have now is OPEC putting US shale oil offside and if the price stays down here for too long then the U.S. will either need to let their production excess go offline or start buying OPEC oil to bid the price up. Either way, OPEC is going to get a huge payday from the US.
But the US doesn't want to step in yet because on the other side this is bringing Russia to its knees. This has several upsides for the U.S. Obviously, it will put Russia back in its box over the current fight to oust Russia from military ports in the Med (Crimea and Syria). But most importantly it attacks Europe and Britain as it is our banks that have lent hugely to Russia. The U.S. has been attacking all the final UK exchanges and UK and EU banks as hard as possible for the last few years via regulatory assaults such as LIBOR to try and kill the UK dominance in FX and various direct attacks on specific banks but to have Russia default would mean a collapse of several UK and German banks.
It's interesting to watch. But Aberdeen will be fine as investment in high cost fields will go on hold and the UK govt benefits from fracking going away before the election and as a net importer of oil our BofP improves considerably. As well as obviously putting money in the pockets of voters via lower fuel costs.
Real value of oil is sub $20. 7 or so years ago it went under $40. It can easily do it again but is currently holding just under $60. If it does drop to the $40 mark then it will be a huge gift of a long trade over 18/24 months as it runs back up to $100 as economies get stimulated by low transport costs and the Bulls start the old 'peak oil' fear mongering again.
Interesting stuff, cheers !Oil is really interesting at the moment as you have had several years of the U.S. flooding the market with supply and increasing production via shale oil but the moment China growth starts to slow and oil demand dropped the US expected OPEC to take the hit by cutting their supply but they haven't. They've instead chosen to b
h slap the US and drop the price of oil. What we have now is OPEC putting US shale oil offside and if the price stays down here for too long then the U.S. will either need to let their production excess go offline or start buying OPEC oil to bid the price up. Either way, OPEC is going to get a huge payday from the US.
But the US doesn't want to step in yet because on the other side this is bringing Russia to its knees. This has several upsides for the U.S. Obviously, it will put Russia back in its box over the current fight to oust Russia from military ports in the Med (Crimea and Syria). But most importantly it attacks Europe and Britain as it is our banks that have lent hugely to Russia. The U.S. has been attacking all the final UK exchanges and UK and EU banks as hard as possible for the last few years via regulatory assaults such as LIBOR to try and kill the UK dominance in FX and various direct attacks on specific banks but to have Russia default would mean a collapse of several UK and German banks.
It's interesting to watch. But Aberdeen will be fine as investment in high cost fields will go on hold and the UK govt benefits from fracking going away before the election and as a net importer of oil our BofP improves considerably. As well as obviously putting money in the pockets of voters via lower fuel costs.
Real value of oil is sub $20. 7 or so years ago it went under $40. It can easily do it again but is currently holding just under $60. If it does drop to the $40 mark then it will be a huge gift of a long trade over 18/24 months as it runs back up to $100 as economies get stimulated by low transport costs and the Bulls start the old 'peak oil' fear mongering again.
Bizarre comments about money being blown on Fast Audis etc.
Where has all the profits gone? Well its been returned to its investors - mainly UK pension funds over the years along with massive taxes added when oil prices rocketed which is paying for the public sector NHS etc.
The individuals who worked on it are highly skilled individuals who are also willing to work in dangerous places away from family for long periods of time. Individually those who lose a job will likely move to other engineering areas which will add competition - and in so doing badly damage the locality in Scotland where they lose the tax but also the spend they would make to support local businesses.
To me a number on here seem to be of the ilk oh they earned a lot big deal .... Shame
Where has all the profits gone? Well its been returned to its investors - mainly UK pension funds over the years along with massive taxes added when oil prices rocketed which is paying for the public sector NHS etc.
The individuals who worked on it are highly skilled individuals who are also willing to work in dangerous places away from family for long periods of time. Individually those who lose a job will likely move to other engineering areas which will add competition - and in so doing badly damage the locality in Scotland where they lose the tax but also the spend they would make to support local businesses.
To me a number on here seem to be of the ilk oh they earned a lot big deal .... Shame
All these comments about the oil industry in the UK being subsidised should do some reading before making ill informed comments and comparing it to the coal industry. The oil industry pays a huge amount of tax, look here https://www.gov.uk/oil-and-gas-taxation for starters compared to any other industry sector. If the fields become uneconomic the oil companies will shut them down and then all the tax revenue will be lost. As people sometimes seem to forget it is much better to get 40% of a billion pound in revenues than 80% of 100 million pounds (figures plucked from fresh air). The oil companies are not asking for subsidies in any way just a reduction in some of the taxes paid to make these hugely expensive fields economic at a lower per barrel price and believe me the costs to keep the ageing infrastructure in the North Sea going is huge.
cerbfan said:
The oil companies are not asking for subsidies in any way just a reduction in some of the taxes paid to make these hugely expensive fields economic at a lower per barrel price and believe me the costs to keep the ageing infrastructure in the North Sea going is huge.
If you are asking the government to let you off taxes that are due you are asking for a subside. It's a global world and the North Sea industry needs to be able to compete with global competition. Fittster said:
If you are asking the government to let you off taxes that are due you are asking for a subside. It's a global world and the North Sea industry needs to be able to compete with global competition.
The problem is there are a ton of "special" North Sea oil taxes, making it by far the most heavily taxed industry in the UK.For example, corporation tax for North Sea oil companies is set at a special rate of 50%, instead of 21% for any other type of company. In addition, there are special rules on tax allowances, for example, money spent on oil exploration and R&D are not allowable expenses for corporation tax purposes for NS oil companies.
The companies are not necessarily asking for subsidies, but parity with other businesses.
Fittster said:
cerbfan said:
The oil companies are not asking for subsidies in any way just a reduction in some of the taxes paid to make these hugely expensive fields economic at a lower per barrel price and believe me the costs to keep the ageing infrastructure in the North Sea going is huge.
If you are asking the government to let you off taxes that are due you are asking for a subside. It's a global world and the North Sea industry needs to be able to compete with global competition. poo at Paul's said:
It's a proper shame Scotland voted 'no', only coz I'd loved to have aspen Salmon Face's reaction to this 'crisis'.
Him and Putin could have had a conference call with the Samaritans
Ha. I'm sure if oil output had collapsed across the US and prices were hitting $200 a barrel there would already be another Scottish Independence vote being penciled in for early next month. Him and Putin could have had a conference call with the Samaritans
Welshbeef said:
Bizarre comments about money being blown on Fast Audis etc.
Where has all the profits gone? Well its been returned to its investors - mainly UK pension funds over the years along with massive taxes added when oil prices rocketed which is paying for the public sector NHS etc.
The individuals who worked on it are highly skilled individuals who are also willing to work in dangerous places away from family for long periods of time. Individually those who lose a job will likely move to other engineering areas which will add competition - and in so doing badly damage the locality in Scotland where they lose the tax but also the spend they would make to support local businesses.
To me a number on here seem to be of the ilk oh they earned a lot big deal .... Shame
Precisely.Where has all the profits gone? Well its been returned to its investors - mainly UK pension funds over the years along with massive taxes added when oil prices rocketed which is paying for the public sector NHS etc.
The individuals who worked on it are highly skilled individuals who are also willing to work in dangerous places away from family for long periods of time. Individually those who lose a job will likely move to other engineering areas which will add competition - and in so doing badly damage the locality in Scotland where they lose the tax but also the spend they would make to support local businesses.
To me a number on here seem to be of the ilk oh they earned a lot big deal .... Shame
There are, at this moment, many such individuals sitting out in the North Sea in a severe gale 9,(and one or two in comfortable air conditioned shoreside offices
) keeping the oil & gas flowing which in turn is keeping your houses nice & warm while you sleep and look forward to spending Christmas with your families.The oil companies are businesses just like any other, they're not going to do what they do if it's not worth their while & neither are the guys who work for them.
Edited by DJFish on Friday 19th December 05:51
DJFish said:
Welshbeef said:
Bizarre comments about money being blown on Fast Audis etc.
Where has all the profits gone? Well its been returned to its investors - mainly UK pension funds over the years along with massive taxes added when oil prices rocketed which is paying for the public sector NHS etc.
The individuals who worked on it are highly skilled individuals who are also willing to work in dangerous places away from family for long periods of time. Individually those who lose a job will likely move to other engineering areas which will add competition - and in so doing badly damage the locality in Scotland where they lose the tax but also the spend they would make to support local businesses.
To me a number on here seem to be of the ilk oh they earned a lot big deal .... Shame
Precisely.Where has all the profits gone? Well its been returned to its investors - mainly UK pension funds over the years along with massive taxes added when oil prices rocketed which is paying for the public sector NHS etc.
The individuals who worked on it are highly skilled individuals who are also willing to work in dangerous places away from family for long periods of time. Individually those who lose a job will likely move to other engineering areas which will add competition - and in so doing badly damage the locality in Scotland where they lose the tax but also the spend they would make to support local businesses.
To me a number on here seem to be of the ilk oh they earned a lot big deal .... Shame
There are, at this moment, many such individuals sitting out in the North Sea in a severe gale 9,(and one or two in comfortable air conditioned shoreside offices
) keeping the oil & gas flowing which in turn is keeping your houses nice & warm while you sleep and look forward to spending Christmas with your families.The oil companies are businesses just like any other, they're not going to do what they do if it's not worth their while & neither are the guys who work for them.
Edited by DJFish on Friday 19th December 05:51
Anyway DJFish, get the impression you are an office bod so no doubt I'll stumble past you at some point today on Union St on our way to a terrible hangover tomorrow morning!!
hora said:
When's the last time barrel was this low?.. 2009? Sorry BBC news is a redtop sometimes. Its heinously high for too long.
From the mid 1980's to about 2002 the average price of oil was in the mid $20's and that included 2 boom periods for industry / society as a whole.Edited by hora on Friday 19th December 06:08
And those companies still made profits. Now with it only 3x higher apparently everyone's struggling. For the common man that is hard to understand or feel sorrow for. Like the bankers they get the rewards for the good times and then complain when the bad times are. Even the ex-head of BP admitted they under-invest in the lean periods so it causes problems at later times.
I'm sure a lot of Scottish farmers / crofters will feel sorry for them having to live in central heated off shore installations whilst they have the day long smell of wet sheep for only 1/4 the pay
Is it time for the UK to review its special tax rates and non allowable deductions for corporation tax?
I'm not sure they would have to do the maths from a short term perspective - however long term ignoring this dip if they want to keep it going then a review will have to be made. Its not just about the Corporation tax the govt receives but the income tax then all the local economy it supports and the tax receipts from those.
Thing is I guess if Oil stopped tomorrow in the North Sea what would happen to Aberdeen? Ghost town/honestly is there any other reason the place exists apart from some fishing? If so look at the Welsh Valleys coal mines shut game over.
Difficult decision and the tax giveaway cannot be afforded - it would be what £4billion a year gap to find from departments.
I'm not sure they would have to do the maths from a short term perspective - however long term ignoring this dip if they want to keep it going then a review will have to be made. Its not just about the Corporation tax the govt receives but the income tax then all the local economy it supports and the tax receipts from those.
Thing is I guess if Oil stopped tomorrow in the North Sea what would happen to Aberdeen? Ghost town/honestly is there any other reason the place exists apart from some fishing? If so look at the Welsh Valleys coal mines shut game over.
Difficult decision and the tax giveaway cannot be afforded - it would be what £4billion a year gap to find from departments.
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