Seriously Overpriced Cars

[405dogvan]

hornetrider said:

Who is going to pay 16k for an original Scirocco?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOR-SALE-Volkswagen-Scir...

I don't think it's even desireable. It's just an old car.

Any car which has become scarce - which is old enough that most are cat-food-tins - which is in tidy nick and has been cared-for - will sell to someone at some price (and when there aren't many for-sale, sellers get a bit of leeway)

Like everything tho, the price on the screen does make the item 'worth' that much UNLESS someone buys it (and they may buy it for rather less than advertised - most cars sell for less than advertised) - as a seller you'd be daft to UNDERPRICE it tho, you never know what a rare item is really worth so the default is to aim high, because people who are keen will come and they will haggle.

There's no such thing as 'just an old car' - many of us look at modern cars the same way you likely look at fridges or microwaves, white goods which are designed to appeal on price and features and last 5 years tops - some can afford to spend good money on "nice old cars" and that makes the market viable (and if you buy the right ones, your money is reasonably safe tho you'll need to shell out to keep the thing tidy)

[rohrl]

405dogvan said:

hornetrider said:

Who is going to pay 16k for an original Scirocco?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOR-SALE-Volkswagen-Scir...

I don't think it's even desirable. It's just an old car.

Any car which has become scarce - which is old enough that most are cat-food-tins - which is in tidy nick and has been cared-for - will sell to someone at some price (and when there aren't many for-sale, sellers get a bit of leeway)

Like everything tho, the price on the screen does make the item 'worth' that much UNLESS someone buys it (and they may buy it for rather less than advertised - most cars sell for less than advertised) - as a seller you'd be daft to UNDERPRICE it tho, you never know what a rare item is really worth so the default is to aim high, because people who are keen will come and they will haggle.

There's no such thing as 'just an old car' - many of us look at modern cars the same way you likely look at fridges or microwaves, white goods which are designed to appeal on price and features and last 5 years tops - some can afford to spend good money on "nice old cars" and that makes the market viable (and if you buy the right ones, your money is reasonably safe tho you'll need to shell out to keep the thing tidy)

4-Star Classics are notorious for their prices.

In defence of this Scirocco it wasn't that common a car when new, they rotted badly so there are very few left, it was quite an aspirational car when new being a coupe and it was designed by a recognised designer in Giorgetto Giugaro.

It isn't a Storm though (which had the GTI engine, metallic paint and a leather interior) and as a GLS I do think it's overpriced.

[RobinBanks]

TommoAE86 said:

But these are going up for entirely different reasons than seems to be the basis for this thread. The USA is Skyline crazy but they cannot import them until they are older than 25 years (Said to be for "safety" reasons, apparently it's lobbying from US carmakers).

It's got nothing to do with American car makers. It was the American importers of German cars, in particular Mercedes-Benz of North America. In the 1970s and 1980s the US market had stricter emissions rules than Europe and required stupid headlights and rubber bumpers. So people privately imported European spec cars and the US importers obviously didn't like that.

Imported Vehicle Safety Compliance Act of 1988

[pagani1]

The Classic Car market is in an inflationary bubble caused by people running from low interest paying banks & building societies accounts and investing in investment vehicles-cars. Cars are overvalued because of this demand but when interest rates pick up the market will freeze and the offloading will begin. The dealers will try to support the market at that time because high values favour them, will it be the same realignment as the 90's? Probably not but be aware the market is very near the top at present.

[lord trumpton]

wormus said:

Not sure about this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PEUGEOT-205-Cabriolet-MO...



However much it goes for is too much.

Holy st

[Neil E 99]

BMW Z8 yes its an Alpina version but its also £350k ??????
Think I would look at my wad before buying that.

[pSyCoSiS]

I do agree that 4StarClassics sell some ridiculously overpriced cars.

But, then again, what they do sell is pretty rare and they are probably the main source for those type of cars. Hence why they charge what they like and their stock sells quickly.

To be fair, if my lottery numbers were to come up, it would be the first place I go to and splash the cash on some rare and eclectic metal.

Some of what they sell is reasonable, IMHO. For example, this E46 M3 with low miles is expensive, but rarely seen in that colour combo and if kept locked away, surely can only increase in price over time?

http://www.4starclassics.com/bmw-e46-m3-convertibl...

Also - how about this? Z1 Alpina Roadster - I don' think I have ever seen one, and the rarity factor pretty much justifies the price, considering how much E30 M3s are commanding - this was produced in much lower numbers and surely a failsafe investment:

http://www.4starclassics.com/alpina-rle-for-sale/

[Fast Bug]

pSyCoSiS said:

I do agree that 4StarClassics sell some ridiculously overpriced cars.

I'm n ot picking on you, it's just your quote is a good starting point.

Is something overpriced if it sells? I=Surely if something is overpriced it doesn't sell?

And who decides if something is overpriced?

[mat205125]

Neil E 99 said:

BMW Z8 yes its an Alpina version but its also £350k ??????
Think I would look at my wad before buying that.

When they were new and nearly new, BMW couldn't give them away.

[BrabusMog]

mat205125 said:

Neil E 99 said:

BMW Z8 yes its an Alpina version but its also £350k ??????
Think I would look at my wad before buying that.

When they were new and nearly new, BMW couldn't give them away.

That's not strictly true, my dad walked away from a deal on one thinking that the dealer (Sytner) would buckle but they didn't and then when he decided to try again he couldn't source one.

I believe Sytner then started buying them all back from customers and subsequently held the monopoly on the second hand market for them, which has led to this ridiculous increase in pricing.

[s m]

Fast Bug said:

pSyCoSiS said:

I do agree that 4StarClassics sell some ridiculously overpriced cars.

I'm n ot picking on you, it's just your quote is a good starting point.

Is something overpriced if it sells? I=Surely if something is overpriced it doesn't sell?

And who decides if something is overpriced?

100% this ^

[Atmospheric]

Price is a matter of opinion. Some people will pay it, others won't. Because someone will pay for it does not make it "not" overpriced.

We have all paid over the odds for one thing or another, so that argument doesn't stand.

I'm not sure this thread is about the genuinely rare and desirable cars, this is about the overpriced average motors which have been swept up and cars massively over-inflated values.

[howardhughes]

BMW E30 M3 - A beautiful car, however Unjustifiably overpriced.

[Atmospheric]

To add, some people buy expensive items or things to "have" them, not to use, in this case as most of us would use them.

We are enthusiasts of the practical kind I feel, not the sort that wants to look at their cars, but drive them. Hence PHers tend to know the real value of cars through experience. Hence we see some of it as overpriced.

Speaking of a car being driven, checkout Harry's Garage for the Sahara video. that's how you use your car and learn about it!

[pSyCoSiS]

Fast Bug said:

pSyCoSiS said:

I do agree that 4StarClassics sell some ridiculously overpriced cars.

I'm n ot picking on you, it's just your quote is a good starting point.

Is something overpriced if it sells? I=Surely if something is overpriced it doesn't sell?

And who decides if something is overpriced?

That's a fair point. I suppose something is only worth what people are willing to pay for it. Maybe those who don't appreciate the product, will automatically think it is overpriced. Those in the know, and have the financial means, will happily pay.

Another example of overpriced vehicles are the VW split screen camper vans. Slow, usually unreliable (I used to live near Santa Pod, and every time there is a bug event on, there were loads of the things around the local roads / motorways, pulled over with their bonnets open). They generally tend to rot away, yet mint examples of them (23 window I think?) can sell for upwards of £50k. They are something which do not appeal to me, but I respect the fact they have a cult following and that is what dictates the price.

[Fast Bug]

pSyCoSiS said:

Fast Bug said:

pSyCoSiS said:

I do agree that 4StarClassics sell some ridiculously overpriced cars.

I'm not picking on you, it's just your quote is a good starting point.

Is something overpriced if it sells? Surely if something is overpriced it doesn't sell?

And who decides if something is overpriced?

That's a fair point. I suppose something is only worth what people are willing to pay for it. Maybe those who don't appreciate the product, will automatically think it is overpriced. Those in the know, and have the financial means, will happily pay.

Another example of overpriced vehicles are the VW split screen camper vans. Slow, usually unreliable (I used to live near Santa Pod, and every time there is a bug event on, there were loads of the things around the local roads / motorways, pulled over with their bonnets open). They generally tend to rot away, yet mint examples of them (23 window I think?) can sell for upwards of £50k. They are something which do not appeal to me, but I respect the fact they have a cult following and that is what dictates the price.

At £25k for a Split people said they were over priced, then they got to £35k for a really nice one, then £45k and a few have changed hands in the States for over $100k and a friend in Germany has billed people for nigh on 100k Euros for restorations excluding the base vehicle. So when was it over priced? I'd say at £15k as I don't like them, but prices keep climbing as people keep paying the money for them so the market must be right and I must be wrong.

Same with 4starclassics, I think he asks silly money for cars, but he's been going for a good few years so he must be doing something right? They must be selling cars to enable them to keep the doors open and a roof over the owners head. So is he overpriced? Or does he find really nice cars in the knowledge that he can find a buyer that's willing to pay a little bit more for a car that's been well looked after, original and has really nice miles?

Someone said about Figaro's earlier in the thread, I've got a real soft spot for them. I used to pay £2k for nice ones fresh off the boat and SVA'd. The price of them shocked me recently, but then they were a limited production car, with no rust protection to speak of, so lots have rusted away/been written off and the Japanese have been buying the nicest ones back. So you have an ever decreasing pool of vehicles to choose from, and high demand which has driven the price up.

[Pistonbroke49]

hornetrider said:

Who is going to pay 16k for an original Scirocco?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOR-SALE-Volkswagen-Scir...

I don't think it's even desireable. It's just an old car.

I totally agree ! The price of some "classic" cars still surprises me. Back in the day we bought old bangers like Escorts and Minis as we didn't have the readies and either fixed them or scrapped them when they broke. Now I shake my head at today's prices. Many average motors have become "investments" too precious to be driven !
Nostalgia aint what it used to be ! It's become big business.

[s m]

Atmospheric said:

Price is a matter of opinion. Some people will pay it, others won't. Because someone will pay for it does not make it "not" overpriced.

We have all paid over the odds for one thing or another, so that argument doesn't stand.

I'm not sure this thread is about the genuinely rare and desirable cars, this is about the overpriced average motors which have been swept up and cars massively over-inflated values.

I think it's an understanding thing.

Some of these 'average' motors are now rarer than what others would think are 'desirable'.

Because persons A,B,C and D don't consider it desirable to themselves they consider it overpriced.
Persons E and F consider it desirable and they buy it at the 'overpriced' price.
Now granted, if an item never sells at a high price then it is probably overpriced. Some of these undesirable items are selling though at these prices.

Madness to some, the fulfilment of a dream to others.......

[Happyjap]

Mr. Dan, in Japan we have a saying "If you turn into a dog, be sure to choose a rich family.' please pondr this in your silent moments!

[Happyjap]

405dogvan said:

I do wonder how dumb you have to be to include a price tag in a photo when you KNOW you'll have to drop that price.

£2K between the price in the photo and the price on the website - (still many times it's actual worth to anyone sane) but you see this a LOT - cars which have clearly been gouging prices (often still gouging prices) but it just yells "we're dishonest and desperate to sell it"

A foolish man "Drops a price" while a wise man lowers it! Please ponder this in your silent moments!