Supermarket fuel inferior quality says Telegraph. Really?

[madbadger]

Scuffers said:

Defcon5 said:

hufggfg said:

Apologies for my lack of understanding, but what exactly does a mass spectrometer measure? Is it effectively just saying that the fuels are exactly the same Octane rating? Or is it saying that the additives are the same as well?

Lots of people here are talking about the difference in additives, rather than the Octane rating. Of course the placebo effect is very important (and not negated by data showing an improvement, that's the who point of placebo, it can lead to a real change, not just a perceived one) but I'm also interested in what impact additives have (if any).

I was thinking the same.

I was also under the Impression that supermarket fuels have more bio ethanol in them or something similar?

Mass Spectrometer will tell you at atomic level what something comprises of.

ie. what the petrol is made up of, in infinite detail.

Science matters.

[Pooh]

My turbocharged Alfa runs best on Shell Vpower (smoother, more powerful and with a more even pull across the rev range), I do not notice any difference with the performance of the maserati but the fuel pump makes much more noise when run on Tesco 99 so I always fill it with Vpower if I can.
It does not seem to make any difference to the Volvo so I think it varies a lot depending upon the car.

[hairyben]

Have been pondering this for a couple of days

New van in '07, hardly high performance by some of your standards but the merc 200bhp V6 TDI is certainly a fincikety and complex engine, far moreso than the old chugalong happy oil burners I've ran in the past.

Had a few issues during the first year or so of ownership going into limp mode on a regular basis, had a couple of recalls and trips back to the dealer, EGR being one. Heard a lot of "opinion" on fuel brand of both persuasions, got paranoid and have run it only on branded diesel ever since, touch wood, no problems in about 4-5 years. The the other day I'm running out, fuel light on past 2 recently shut-down filling stations when I lose my nerve and get a full tank at a morrisons. Following day, 9 leptons on the M40 and lose all power, ah limp mode it's been a while my old friend.

[MGJohn]

Yes read a lot about this over the past few years ever since the demise or 4* and 5* fuels.

Twenty odd years ago when my sons were very small, they enjoyed travelling by train and watching Freight Trains in action. So did I ... This included both loading and unloading. On a couple of occasions we visited a large rail head Fuel Storage Depot. Spent a couple of hours there watching the massively impressive Fuel Tanker trains arriving and unloading. Whilst there numerous road tanker articulated trucks came and loaded and then drove off to various Petrol Station outlets. These included most of the well known Supermarket Companies who have on site filling stations.

I have sometimes filled up with the various "Super" grades on offer and despite careful checking, not obtained proof positive that the extra outlay gives beneficial MPG improvement.

I guess a careful brim-fill-brim-fill check over say ten full tanks will show if any such fuels are a better buy from various aspects.

[Devil2575]

The

Ari said:

Devil2575 said:

Indeed, which is why people frequently believe things that aren't true. Personal experiences are not a good form of evidence for anything.

Devil2575 - I'm cold

Devil2575's mum - Well put a coat on then

Devil2575 - Although my personal experience is that I'm warmer with a coat on, there have been no government funded university approved independent research into the feasibility of a coat making me warmer, and therefore I refuse to accept the evidence that wearing a coat makes me warmer just because wearing a coat makes me warmer, and thus shall not put one on.

Cupid stunt.

I hate to burst your bubble but there is plenty of established science to explain why wearing a coat makes you feel warmer.

But then I wouldn't expect a simpleton like yourself to understand stuff like that.

[Scuffers]

so, you're going to argue with the output of a mass spec?

[shoestring7]

My Mk5 Gti loves its SUL. I always use Shell where I can get it, or Tesco at a pinch. A single tank of regular really affected torque. My old 911 likes SUL and a dose of Millers additive for a grey exhaust pipe, however the BMW GS will run on chip fat...

SS7

[Scuffers]

out of interest, to gain EU homologation, cars have to be able to run on 95, lot of manufacturers encourage the use of 98.

[Devil2575]

Scuffers said:

so, you're going to argue with the output of a mass spec?

Interesting but single samples and no information about sample quality etc means that I wouldn't take them as gospel. They also give no idea of how the fuel varies. Even assuming perfect sampling and storage all one sample tells you is what was in the tank that day. I've worked in an analytical lab so know the pit falls only too well.

[Scuffers]

Devil2575 said:

Scuffers said:

so, you're going to argue with the output of a mass spec?

Interesting but single samples and no information about sample quality etc means that I wouldn't take them as gospel. They also give no idea of how the fuel varies. Even assuming perfect sampling and storage all one sample tells you is what was in the tank that day. I've worked in an analytical lab so know the pit falls only too well.

Well looking at the samples posted above i can't really see you can argue with any fundamental differences in the formulation of petrol yes there may be very slight variations in additive levels but looking at the plot i don't see any sign of additional elements.

[hman]

mini1380cc said:

KTF said:

lbc said:

I only use Shell V-Power, as it saves money in the long term.

How is that?

He could simply mean it works out cheaper per mile. The difference in MPG for my MR2 Turbo meant V-Power was cheaper than 95RON.

agreed, had a 3.0 audi and the MPG benefit was more than the cost difference.

[xRIEx]

Scuffers said:

Well looking at the samples posted above i can't really see you can argue with any fundamental differences in the formulation of petrol yes there may be very slight variations in additive levels but looking at the plot i don't see any sign of additional elements.

Erm, what? You actually can't see any differences between the three results in badger's first post, and the result in his second post?

[smbitin]

There are only seven refineries in the UK and the one at Milford Haven is shutting down. Which of the six remaining refineries does the sub standard supermarket fuel come from? Additives differ from brand to brand but all fuel must meet British Standard.

[anonymous-user]

Which supermarket will be first to sue Telegraph for claiming its fuel is inferior?

[HertsBiker]

Nitro makes my car less economical.. But this could also be because it revs higher, more easily!

[Ari]

Devil2575 said:

Cupid stunt.

I hate to burst your bubble but there is plenty of established science to explain why wearing a coat makes you feel warmer.

But then I wouldn't expect a simpleton like yourself to understand stuff like that.

Too subtle? Really?

Oh well, never mind.

[Scuffers]

xRIEx said:

Scuffers said:

Well looking at the samples posted above i can't really see you can argue with any fundamental differences in the formulation of petrol yes there may be very slight variations in additive levels but looking at the plot i don't see any sign of additional elements.

Erm, what? You actually can't see any differences between the three results in badger's first post, and the result in his second post?

was talking about the first 3 - yes the next post with the Shell 95 is somewhat different, looks like it has more of some additives.

[dfen5]

Interesting thread. My L200 seems fine on Asda, Sainsbury & Tesco but only Morrison Diesel makes it miss a beat as it gets back on throttle after coasting, when getting up to temperature.

Stick some Miller's additive in all of them now every couple of tankfuls.

[ManOpener]

shoestring7 said:

My Mk5 Gti loves its SUL.

My Leon is exactly the same, and even seems to be picky about different SUL. No idea whether it's a case of the ECU becoming acclimatised to a certain blend of additives but it seems to run best on Shell V-Power and Momentum 99- the fuel economy difference is pretty substantial, 31/35 for similar mixed driving 95 versus 98-9. Given the price difference I feel that SUL is better value per mile.

Every time I put BP Ultimate in it I get a CEL with an an intake manifold runner code; though that's probably just coincidence it's off-putting enough for me not to use it.

As an aside, that's one really, really filthy filler flap

Edited by ManOpener on Tuesday 23 December 10:03

[Devil2575]

Ari said:

Devil2575 said:

Cupid stunt.

I hate to burst your bubble but there is plenty of established science to explain why wearing a coat makes you feel warmer.

But then I wouldn't expect a simpleton like yourself to understand stuff like that.

Too subtle? Really?

Oh well, never mind.

Not subtle at all, just daft