Supermarket fuel inferior quality says Telegraph. Really?

[MacD1]

Love these threads:-)

[robinessex]

y2blade said:

scjgreen said:

y2blade said:

One of my nearby towns FB pages regularly posts reports/warnings of cars filled with fuel from t**** being damaged as a direct result.

Amazes me that this one in particular is allowed to carry on selling fuel.
The site was built on marshland the fuel is contaminated and the store itself stinks of st.

I think its more likely this story stinks of st....

Go visit Andover t**** ...as you walk in the supermarket the smell
Is like rotting animals.

Any Andover PHers will confirm this.

When I ran a garage, I had to dip the fuel tanker before taking delivery of my fuel. If it stank when I lifted the tank hatch, then I was told that it was sourced from the North Sea. Petrol sourced from Arab land smelt 'nicer'. But North Sea crude is a better quality tho. No idea if that is true.



Edit feel free to google "t**** andover smell" and "t***** andover fuel contamination"

[MacD1]

Anyone I've spoke too who uses red with agrecultral machinery or in marine craft have said the same that it is of lesser quality. I worked in boatyards in Taiwan where we installed twin 1000hp CAT engines in large pleasure craft and had the same discussion with engineers. My best mate is a farmer and they all say that it is made for low revs in mind, whether the diluting with die affects quality but they all said the same thing..... :-) but who cares anyway as I'll never drive a diesel

[Scuffers]

MacD1 said:

Anyone I've spoke too who uses red with agrecultral machinery or in marine craft have said the same that it is of lesser quality. I worked in boatyards in Taiwan where we installed twin 1000hp CAT engines in large pleasure craft and had the same discussion with engineers. My best mate is a farmer and they all say that it is made for low revs in mind, whether the diluting with die affects quality but they all said the same thing..... :-) but who cares anyway as I'll never drive a diesel

no idea what happens elsewhere, but here in the UK, plant and agri red are from the same distro tanks, and the volume of dye is insignificant.

do you think the engines in trucks are different to the ones in plant machinery or agri stuff?

[hairyben]

Scuffers said:

MacD1 said:

Anyone I've spoke too who uses red with agrecultral machinery or in marine craft have said the same that it is of lesser quality. I worked in boatyards in Taiwan where we installed twin 1000hp CAT engines in large pleasure craft and had the same discussion with engineers. My best mate is a farmer and they all say that it is made for low revs in mind, whether the diluting with die affects quality but they all said the same thing..... :-) but who cares anyway as I'll never drive a diesel

no idea what happens elsewhere, but here in the UK, plant and agri red are from the same distro tanks, and the volume of dye is insignificant.

do you think the engines in trucks are different to the ones in plant machinery or agri stuff?

Probably the way it's stored/handled via farmers/site tanks that there's more likely to be water and crud in it.

[Scuffers]

hairyben said:

Probably the way it's stored/handled via farmers/site tanks that there's more likely to be water and crud in it.

very much so!

[cars1993]

My tdi had a super clogged up EGR valve. Garage informed me its part of using cheapish supermarket fuels

Now use vpower diesel.

[KTF]

cars1993 said:

My tdi had a super clogged up EGR valve. Garage informed me its part of using cheapish supermarket fuels

So when you replied that you only used 'branded' fuel and asked them to prove their claim, they said?

They have no way at all of determining what fuel you have used and use this line to get out of a warranty claim. Yet still people fall for it...

[Scuffers]

cars1993 said:

My tdi had a super clogged up EGR valve. Garage informed me its part of using cheapish supermarket fuels

Now use vpower diesel.

the reason the EGR's clog up on dismals (as well as DPF's) is simple, if you drive them round like a granny all the time, they never get hot enough to burn the crap.

[HJMS123]

cars1993 said:

My tdi had a super clogged up EGR valve. Garage informed me its part of using cheapish supermarket fuels

Now use vpower diesel.

... unbelievable

[996TT02]

MacD1 said:

Anyone I've spoke too who uses red with agrecultral machinery or in marine craft have said the same that it is of lesser quality.

Meaningless.

MacD1 said:

I worked in boatyards in Taiwan where we installed twin 1000hp CAT engines in large pleasure craft and had the same discussion with engineers.

And the EU is after the UK specifically because the EU does not want UK pleasure craft owners to use the low tax red stuff. And obviously, the boat owners want to continue using it.

http://www.cowes.co.uk/Government-defends-use-of-r...

And, apparently, the boat owners consider the red stuff to be "better":

http://www.pbo.co.uk/news/uk-to-challenge-european...

Due to the fact that it (apparently) does not necessarily have to contain biofuels, unlike regular diesel.

MacD1 said:

My best mate is a farmer...

...not a fuels specialist.

[BFG TERRANO]

Scuffers said:

red diesel is exactly the same as road diesel, just with dye added at distribution.

It is the same "raw" fuel as white diesel but with red dye in it. It doesn't have the additives and detergents that regular road diesel has in it.

[Megaflow]

hairyben said:

Probably the way it's stored/handled via farmers/site tanks that there's more likely to be water and crud in it.

Nail. Head.

The is a massive different between diesel stored in a huge purpose made tank under the ground and a crappy drum, normally with a poorly fitting, pump handle, left out in the open of a field or a building site somewhere.

Off highway diesels have very large primary filters, with water seperators, to cope with this. The daily maintinance schedule will also state drain the seperator.

I can well believe running a road car on red long term will kill it, but not because of the fuel, just the st in it from poor storage.

[Toaster Pilot]

Megaflow said:

Off highway diesels have very large primary filters, with water seperators, to cope with this. The daily maintinance schedule will also state drain the seperator.

I can well believe running a road car on red long term will kill it, but not because of the fuel, just the st in it from poor storage.

Lots of car diesel fuel filters have taps to drain water and stuff like that too though, so with attention/maintenance in that respect I imagine it would reduce the impact

[S0 What]

cars1993 said:

My tdi had a super clogged up EGR valve. Garage informed me its part of using cheapish supermarket fuels

Now use vpower diesel.

Compleat bullst, last week i cleaned out a sprinter, it's disabled transport for a disabled tattoo artist i know, 20K on the clock only ever uses shell V power, has it serviced at a dealer every time it's due (8 1/2 years old ), wouldn't start tother week so as his shop is 100 yards away i had a look at it, the inlet manifold was down from 40 odd mm to 5, totaly blocked with ste from the EGR, injectors were leaking and the top of the engine was coverd in the plasticy/tar crap that leaking injectors leave, i cleaned it out enough to actually run then he took it to the dealer, thier word, "they all do that sir, it's the crap we have to fit to pass emmisions legislation" first time i've heard a dealer tell the truth in years !!!


Back on topic, just got back from a run London to Swansea and back, all on tesco diesel, (paid 96p per Ltr with the last of my money off club card paoints) no nuns or kittens were killed, engine ran fine, sorry cant help with the theory that supermarket fuel is ste, even though it's all i use.

Red diesel, ran on it for years, used to have a workshop next to a plant hire firm and a demo firm, used to service the palnt and lorry so had a fair bit of "spare fuel" ran a Di transit on it for 10 years, only time i had a problem was when somone decided to buy a tank of heating oil thinking they'd save money, everything ran like ste, ever seen a cherry picker at full reach shaking at idle, funny as fook except for the poor bugger in the pickers cage

Edited by S0 What on Thursday 8th January 13:34

[sanguinary]

Part of our site contains a fuel bunker. It's not unusual for tankers from different suppliers to be transferring product in and out of our tanks, so they can deliver their fuel at a temperature that suits them. All the fuel gets nicely mixed together and then heated up to around 55 degrees (sometimes hotter!), before we pump it back into the tanker.

[Megaflow]

Toaster Pilot said:

Megaflow said:

Off highway diesels have very large primary filters, with water seperators, to cope with this. The daily maintinance schedule will also state drain the seperator.

I can well believe running a road car on red long term will kill it, but not because of the fuel, just the st in it from poor storage.

Lots of car diesel fuel filters have taps to drain water and stuff like that too though, so with attention/maintenance in that respect I imagine it would reduce the impact

Of course they do, but off highway heavy duty filters have water separator, not including the primary filter, as big as some car filters...

Then there will be a secondary filter before the HP pump as well.