RE: Porsche 911 (996) Turbo: PH Carpool

[crosseyedlion]

Yet another car I made plans to buy years ago that has kept its value or appreciated -_-

Every car I lust after always seems to shoot up in value after a few years. I should start bloody owning them more often!

[jaacck]

as a fellow estate agent I agree with always looking at what my colleagues are driving. Means I currently change my car every 6 months to one up. love the turbo tho best colour combo too

[crosseyedlion]

jaacck said:

as a fellow estate agent I agree with always looking at what my colleagues are driving. Means I currently change my car every 6 months to one up. love the turbo tho best colour combo too

Can someone explain why being an estate agent leads to one-one-upmanship with cars. Theres nothing wrong with having a nice car, but doing to keep up with the joneses just makes people seem a little vacuous/shallow.

Just drive what you want to drive.

[GetCarter]

crosseyedlion said:

jaacck said:

as a fellow estate agent I agree with always looking at what my colleagues are driving. Means I currently change my car every 6 months to one up. love the turbo tho best colour combo too

Can someone explain why being an estate agent leads to one-one-upmanship with cars. Theres nothing wrong with having a nice car, but doing to keep up with the joneses just makes people seem a little vacuous/shallow.

Just drive what you want to drive.

I know a PH estate agent (you know who you are Andy) that parks round the corner when he's showing houses, so that it doesn't look like he's earning too much in fees!

[J4CKO]

I have wanted one of these forever, then I drove one on a track, it was quick but the stability control had zero sense of humour, the minute it detected any slip it just shut everything down and I am not sure I would want to switch it off. I suppose on the road that isn't really an issue, just shocked me how capable but comparatively inert it felt, R8 felt relatively gutless in comparison (despite not being that far off power wise) but amazed me how much more fun it was.

Inevitable that prices are rising, something not right when some fairly average air cooled stuff goes for more than a 996 Turbo.

[GetCarter]

J4CKO said:

I have wanted one of these forever, then I drove one on a track, it was quick but the stability control had zero sense of humour, the minute it detected any slip it just shut everything down and I am not sure I would want to switch it off. I suppose on the road that isn't really an issue, just shocked me how capable but comparatively inert it felt, R8 felt relatively gutless in comparison (despite not being that far off power wise) but amazed me how much more fun it was.

Inevitable that prices are rising, something not right when some fairly average air cooled stuff goes for more than a 996 Turbo.

I've owned both R8 and 996tt x50 and the Porker is a lot quicker (esp with the x50), but as you say, far less fun to drive. Very little driver involvement. Still the quickest car to get from west coast to east coast in bad weather in Highland Scotland mind.

[Geesus]

So does a 997 Turbo have more soul to drive then?

[Never you mind]

I don't get this lack of soul thing when people criticise the 996 turbo. The split between front and back power favours the rears so it can be a playful brute when you want it to be, the steering on it is sublime and the way it takes off when you drop it into 2nd at 40MPH will put a huge smile on your face. Granted its no 360 for "soul/fizz whatever" I guess but then again a 360 is 15K+ more. Don't take my word on it though http://www.pistonheads.com/roadtests/doc.asp?c=1&a...

[Johnny G Pipe]

Never driven 997 Turbo but if anything the earlier car will have more feel - as has always been the case.

However there always seem to be chat in these threads describing the 996TT as uninvolving.. but most people seem to be missing the point - since the 993TT, Turbo 911s have been specifically designed by the factory to be discrete and safe whilst being enormously fast. Its not trying to be an leary Elise or GT3, that is what Elises and GT3s are for.

Yes its still a 911, and you can enjoy learning how to wring one out, or make it into something different with exhaust, suspension/geo and tune. But, unmodified it is not going to be a bundle of laughs on a track, unless it has mahoosive straights!

Yes the coolant hoses can let go (mainly seems to be on frequently tracked cars) and there is the chat about stretched timing chains following a mis-shift over-rev. But both of these are likely to be FEP's...Forum-exaggerated phenonomena.

Love mine, as a slightly psychopathic way of taking the kids to school

Edited by Johnny G Pipe on Tuesday 23 December 13:02

[GetCarter]

Johnny G Pipe said:

designed by the factory to be discrete

Nothing discrete about a Porsche 911 turbo! I went from one to an RS6 and it was like disappearing

[tuono]

RWD cossie wil said:

aww999 said:

Geesus said:

Lovely car.
I'm fishing around for a nice car for weekends and Trackdays.
4 seats will keep the wife happy too!
How does the 996 Turbo compare to the 996 GT3 and 997 Turbo in track terms?

I asked this back on page 1 but no responses yet. Default answer seems to be "buy a GT3" but they are ina different price bracket now, and I really need rear seats!

Before I bought mine, I drove my mates remapped K16 turbo (420bhp std not 450bhp with bigger turbos) around castle coombe, I didn't really go for it hard as it was someone else's car, and being lanky I can't hit the brake pedal easily, so I was taking it fairly easy. However, I was still hitting over 140mph on the start finish straight, and the brakes held up amazingly well for a fairly heavy car. Not having driven anything else on track it's hard to say, but with a bit of practice you would be very quick in one. I thought for a nearly standard road car it performed brilliantly.

I don’t post often, but this is personal !
so here are a few pointers from me:

I bought Tuono (996 TT) in Feb. 2005, 10 years later I have a bond with it like I have had with no other car I have owned. It will be a sad day when it will be retired.

Depreciation was steep in the first couple of years because the 997TT had just come out, but it’s basically worth now what it was worth in 2008 so I’m happy.

Little known detail: of course the state of the car is most important, but for two equivalent vehicles, the pre-march 2001 has a cheaper tax disk (i.e. don’t chase a false economy, but keep this in mind).

997 TT has variable turbos, so it has a much smoother power delivery. You can improve the tuning on the 996 if you want, or buy a 997 which is the same chassis and the same everything except for basically the body panels, interior, the turbos and the 4WD system.

Behavior on track: I do at least 1 track day per year, 10 in a good year, 3-4 most years. And with humility I can tell you:

• ) suspension has built in understeer, because it’s a GT car for the road, it’s good when you are learning.

Afterwards you can choose to tune it out in order to have a faster front end turn-in. I changed suspension to KW but you don’t have to.

• ) a well driven GT3 would be faster in the dry but:
• ) when I had private tuition and the instructor was driving (track-based instructors can’t do it any more) only Radicals were faster. The potential is there, just keep learning.
• ) when the track is damp, and that happens often in the UK, I have, modestly, been the fastest man on the track. More than once.
• ) when it rains for real the track empties out but you just keep going. I have been to tracks where the only ones left in were a few 911 turbos and maybe a Subaru. That is fun.
• ) Sure there are better track cars, Lotuses may be more fun and are faster on twisty tracks, but….
• ) I also drove a 997 on track. It's basically the same as the 996, except for the power delivery (see above). I could not feel the difference of the improved 4wd from the 996.

….off the track:
I have been to most countries in Europe. Carrying myself, wife, wine, luggage. I even did the Etape du Tour. I drove to the Pyrenees with the bicycle packed inside and came back with more than I left (many bottles of wine). Maybe you can do this in a GT2 or an GT3, but you can’t take the wife and 2 toddlers to Paris for the weekend (we did that too).
Buying tip: find a 996 WITHOUT the Bose extra sound system, because in that little space behind the back seats you can fit a McLaren (I mean the pram!)

A Nissan GTR may just be it, but I did a session at Silverstone and I felt like I was driving a videogame.
M3 or M5 nowhere near as fast on a track, nowhere near as agile on mountain roads.
The 911 is great in Europe because the small front end works very well on twisty little roads. I have done all the alpine passes and the 911, strange as it may seem, was more fun the Griffith because of front end visibility. Only my parents Fiat Uno was more fun, downhill (but not uphill).

In conclusion: enjoy the car, keep it forever because you will enjoy it more as time goes by.

[Shaoxter]

tuono said:

I don’t post often, but this is personal !
so here are a few pointers from me:

I bought Tuono (996 TT) in Feb. 2005, 10 years later I have a bond with it like I have had with no other car I have owned. It will be a sad day when it will be retired.

Great write up, but did you seriously name your car??

[Johnny G Pipe]

Shaoxter said:

Great write up, but did you seriously name your car??

Doesnt everyone?

tuono said:

In conclusion: enjoy the car, keep it forever because you will enjoy it more as time goes by.

So, a car for the discerning gentleman looking for a lasting relationship in other words!
Or you could have a one night stand with a Boxster with fake crackle on the over-run, fake heel and toe programmed into the gearbox, and fake factory corrected oversteer

(Just joking obvz, I lovvved the 981 I drove recently..)

[blade7]

I'm in a position to buy and run a early 996tt, but not really to chuck another £10k at it if it went badly wrong.
Light blue touchpaper... a good 944 turbo + modifications adding up to £15k would be right with a standard 996tt on the road and most tracks, in the dry, and they feel as fast as they're going .

[DKL]

The chap off PCGB forum who ran a 996t and WUF felt the 996 was both quicker and "better". Subjective though that is.
WUF had the horses but 2wd isn't going to put it down as well.
On the road you won't get anywhere any quicker mind.

[boxsey]

J4CKO said:

I have wanted one of these forever, then I drove one on a track, it was quick but the stability control had zero sense of humour, the minute it detected any slip it just shut everything down and I am not sure I would want to switch it off. I suppose on the road that isn't really an issue, just shocked me how capable but comparatively inert it felt, R8 felt relatively gutless in comparison (despite not being that far off power wise) but amazed me how much more fun it was.

Inevitable that prices are rising, something not right when some fairly average air cooled stuff goes for more than a 996 Turbo.

Just turn the PSM off when you take it on track. There's a perception that a 911 (especially a turbo) will try and kill you as soon as you turn it off. It won't. The feedback from the chassis and steering is so good that you'll know when you're approaching the limit. You'll enjoy it so much more without it intervening. Keep the PSM for the road where it might turn out to be useful in an emergency.

[blade7]

DKL said:

The chap off PCGB forum who ran a 996t and WUF felt the 996 was both quicker and "better". Subjective though that is.
WUF had the horses but 2wd isn't going to put it down as well.
On the road you won't get anywhere any quicker mind.

I drove WUF when Ben had it and TBH I think it was past it's best by then. A 2.5 944T would struggle against a 996 TT, a big spec 3.0 944T maybe not.

[ES335]

Great cars, but not as reliable or bulletproof as the hype suggests. Ok, they're unlikely to fail catastrophically like other 996s but keeping on top of wear and tear items, including everything relating to the turbos - gaskets, heatshield studs etc; is supercar expensive. Although to be fair, they are supercars so perhaps that's to be expected. From experience of two of them, I would always preemptively replace the main coolant hose unless its been done because that (e)poxy fitting will let go and when it does, its not funny. In my case it was two hundred miles from home at night on the side of a motorway in a thunderstorm. The other thing that lets them down is the interiors - really rubbish quality for a car of their price. Still, I'd have another if I could find a nice unmolested manual X50 at the right price - something that's becoming increasingly hard now. Then again, 997s are now starting to get within reach...

[m444ttb]

How do they compare all round to the 997 Turbo?

[monthefish]

J4CKO said:

I have wanted one of these forever, then I drove one on a track, it was quick but the stability control had zero sense of humour, the minute it detected any slip it just shut everything down and I am not sure I would want to switch it off.

Confused by your post.

I would hope that anyone that wished their stability control to have 'a sense of humour', would have the balls -and more importantly the skills - to switch it off.