E46 M3 v 135i - how different?
Discussion
lilwashu said:
If anyone has driven a modern-ish mid-range performance car that is not an E46 M3, then goes and drives an E46 M3, I suspect they will be disappointed all round given the near-holy status it seems to have somehow held.
This happened to me when I first drove the E46 M3 because everyone and their brother raved so much about them I think my expectation of it was miles too high so when I first drove one I wondered why it was missing so much mid range performance and it left me a bit flat. It proves what a cracking motor it is though because anyone who has owned one cant find anything to replace it with or if they have sold it they miss it like mad so it must be a great car when you get to know it.
I only really clicked with mine when I had a day to make the most use of the worn rears I had a mobile fitter coming to replace. M diff and the balance when over the limit really is something special but you need to switch off the systems and let if off the leash to make the most of it. Very easy to control but you do then wear through the next set much quicker.
aeropilot said:
pilchardthecat said:
You'll be bored of it in a week.
Just because you were, doesn't mean everyone else will be 
There are at least 3 ex-E46 M3 owners that have chopped them in for a E82 135i that post (have posted on BabyBMW forum, and neither of them were bored with the 135 within a week.
Stock suspension on the 135i is pants, but that is easily remedied, and the 135i lacks a LSD, which again can be remedied.
Running costs of the 135i will be about half that of the M3
Either way it's a head-over-heart choice. You may as well get a 330d, the power delivery is much the same, although at least the diesel pulls up to the red line, peak power on the 135i is about 1200rpm short of the red line
lilwashu said:
If anyone has driven a modern-ish mid-range performance car that is not an E46 M3, then goes and drives an E46 M3, I suspect they will be disappointed all round given the near-holy status it seems to have somehow held. The interior has dated as you would expect and it feels slow compared to anything with a turbo.
They are obviously very different to a 135i - i would still have an E46 M3 over one of those.
I was initially disappointed with my first back when the E46 was the current model. I thought it was slow and soft. In the end I found it to be a car that takes time to really appreciate. For me it was around a month.They are obviously very different to a 135i - i would still have an E46 M3 over one of those.
kiseca said:
Not every M has been God's gift to motoring. The E46 wasn't too bad but it really isn't a particularly exciting car to drive considering its performance.
I had a chuckle at that...I've never owned either car, but I do own an E46 330i and an E30 M3...I've also driven an E46 M3 both on the road and on the track...The E46 M3 is *very* fast and capable. Like most, if not all. NA M sport engines it needs to be revved to extract the performance, but this isn't hard to do as the engine loves to rev and does so easily even from low revs.
Ultimately, it is faster than my E30 M3, but feels heavier and nowhere near as nimble and this is accentuated on the track.
The 330 isn't anywhere near as fast as the E46 M3 and although the engine has about the same power, or a bit more, than the E30 M3 motor in my car it is nowhere in the performance stakes...the engine has lots more low end torque (actually it has loads more torque, period) but it won't rev as well nor is the car as fast...mainly due to the added 200+kg over the E30.
M sport engines and cars are just not in the same range as standard range BMWs...even ones with M-sport packs. If you want a car to drive every day in traffic, get the 130/135i...if you want a car that will respond and come alive when you want it to go fast, but will be lumpy and jerky in traffic get the M3. But then drive it as it deserves..it will put a smile on your face!
As regards parts...anything uniquely "M" will carry a (quite hefty) premium unless you are prepared to accept an aftermarket alternative...for example my E30 clutch master cylinder needed replacement in the M3...BMW price circa £500 and there is no aftermarket alternative...However, there is an accepted conversion/upgrade to a 7-series cylinder and C3BMW sell the complete kit for circa £200 and it gives a slightly lighter clutch pedal, too. Similarly..front wheel bearings are over £500 each, but an E28 5-series one will fit, you have to swap the ABS rings, but then you will save over £400!
E46 parts are similarly priced...
pilchardthecat said:
RobCrezz said:
rallycross said:
what a load of utter b
ks.
+1ks.The 35 n54 petrol engine pulls all the way to the limiter, despite peak power being 6000rpm.
RobCrezz said:
pilchardthecat said:
No it doesn't, it drops like a stone after peaking. As anyone with even the remotest feel for an engine can tell.
Mine certainly didn't feel that way.I drove two stock cars and they both felt the same. Wondered if a remap would help, but i was looking at stuff less than a year old at the time and didnt want to mess with the warranty.
pilchardthecat said:
Remapped?
I drove two stock cars and they both felt the same. Wondered if a remap would help, but i was looking at stuff less than a year old at the time and didnt want to mess with the warranty.
Sold now, but I did have a JB4 on it at some point (JB4 G5 ISO for sale if anyone wants one). But even stock it felt to me like it was pulling constantly until the box changed up. Mine was 2006 with about 70+k miles on it so maybe they are less eager when new?I drove two stock cars and they both felt the same. Wondered if a remap would help, but i was looking at stuff less than a year old at the time and didnt want to mess with the warranty.
RobCrezz said:
pilchardthecat said:
Remapped?
I drove two stock cars and they both felt the same. Wondered if a remap would help, but i was looking at stuff less than a year old at the time and didnt want to mess with the warranty.
Sold now, but I did have a JB4 on it at some point (JB4 G5 ISO for sale if anyone wants one). But even stock it felt to me like it was pulling constantly until the box changed up. Mine was 2006 with about 70+k miles on it so maybe they are less eager when new?I drove two stock cars and they both felt the same. Wondered if a remap would help, but i was looking at stuff less than a year old at the time and didnt want to mess with the warranty.
pilchardthecat said:
Could be the auto box shifted early. I was looking at manuals, and it didnt feel right unless you changed gear 1000 rpm before the red line, which just felt wrong.
The auto box isnt bad, but I regret getting a manual version. I was quite happy with the Auto until the mrs bought a TT with the DSG box, after using that the gearbox in the 335 felt old hat.Weird though, mine always felt happy to pull to the limiter.
cerb4.5lee said:
It proves what a cracking motor it is though because anyone who has owned one cant find anything to replace it with or if they have sold it they miss it like mad so it must be a great car when you get to know it.
Must be talking about a different car or entirely different expectations. My E46 M3, which was a good example at 7000 miles old was poor apart from the exterior and interior, the rally reps I owned either side of it made it look silly as a performance car. Brakes and suspension were woeful, the engine at 7900 RPM in 2nd gear at full throttle was occasionally interesting but not stellar in any way. On anything but a smooth, dry surface in a low gear it just didn't accelerate very well. 0-100mph was something like 12 seconds.The servicing,insurance and cost for parts on the M3 is a lot more than the 135i.
Fuel consumption will also be 15-20% better.
The HPFP on the N54 aren't anywhere near as unreliable as the internet men tell you. There is more issues in the USA than there is over here.
Actual turbo failure rate is very low. Wastegates have been an issue but it does seem to have improved a lot with later cars and people who did have the job done under warranty.
Power doesn't die after 6000rpm, but it does tail off but should still happily rev to near 7000rpm. No real point though.
Comparing the delivery to a 330d. No, just no.
The N54 also gets tagged as unreliable. However usually you hear all these issues from people who don't own them funnily enough.
Look at BMW's insured warranty and the N54 engines cars are often the cheapest to insure under warranty. That's even when the diesels have have expensive things like the DPF excluded from the warranty. Strange that given the internet's rumours of the car.
The N55 engine is more reliable. It's just not as nice and not as tunable either of you head down that route.
The E46 M3 is a very good car. It is rather exaggerated how good it is though. It's also good looking, but inside is very dated and you know you're in an old car.
Getting a good example is getting harder all the time, but a good one won't depreciate like a 135i will over the next few years unless you pay over the odds.
Both good cars but the 135i will be easier to live with on a daily basis.
You've always got the dilemma of buying a newer car and having the benefits of a fresher car, or buying an older car that has lost more cash.
Fuel consumption will also be 15-20% better.
The HPFP on the N54 aren't anywhere near as unreliable as the internet men tell you. There is more issues in the USA than there is over here.
Actual turbo failure rate is very low. Wastegates have been an issue but it does seem to have improved a lot with later cars and people who did have the job done under warranty.
Power doesn't die after 6000rpm, but it does tail off but should still happily rev to near 7000rpm. No real point though.
Comparing the delivery to a 330d. No, just no.
The N54 also gets tagged as unreliable. However usually you hear all these issues from people who don't own them funnily enough.
Look at BMW's insured warranty and the N54 engines cars are often the cheapest to insure under warranty. That's even when the diesels have have expensive things like the DPF excluded from the warranty. Strange that given the internet's rumours of the car.
The N55 engine is more reliable. It's just not as nice and not as tunable either of you head down that route.
The E46 M3 is a very good car. It is rather exaggerated how good it is though. It's also good looking, but inside is very dated and you know you're in an old car.
Getting a good example is getting harder all the time, but a good one won't depreciate like a 135i will over the next few years unless you pay over the odds.
Both good cars but the 135i will be easier to live with on a daily basis.
You've always got the dilemma of buying a newer car and having the benefits of a fresher car, or buying an older car that has lost more cash.
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