RE: Land Rover launches Defender Celebration Series
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
Cotty said:
Ill take an Adventure in orange.
A night out with Dale Winton? 
From: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2796833/...
72911 said:
You need to put £1k down. The dealers have not yet been allocated cars but were taking orders from yesterday. Dealer I spoke to took 5 orders this morning...
Friendly dealer also said there is are no details yet on options - although anything "bolt on" you can clearly add regardless. Interior might be tougher...
Edited by 72911 on Thursday 8th January 13:45
Two of our dealers had 5 + names on the books with £1k deposits down last Xmas
Phib
AOK said:
loudlashadjuster said:
Shame they didn't go to town on the Heritage and make it just a little bit more authentic...
I know, I know, there isn't room with the current engine, JLR have no money etc., but it would've been a nice touch to go with the rather token paintjob and steelies?
Great render. I'd like to think they tried more ambitious options such as that, but it wouldn't get past current legislation.I know, I know, there isn't room with the current engine, JLR have no money etc., but it would've been a nice touch to go with the rather token paintjob and steelies?
Also... sorry to be pedantic here, but this is the end of the 'Defender', not the end of Land Rover 'Series' vehicles altogether... so really, their homage is more accurate than yours! ... although I (as most others) do love a Series 1!
neilbauer said:
AOK said:
loudlashadjuster said:
Shame they didn't go to town on the Heritage and make it just a little bit more authentic...
I know, I know, there isn't room with the current engine, JLR have no money etc., but it would've been a nice touch to go with the rather token paintjob and steelies?
Great render. I'd like to think they tried more ambitious options such as that, but it wouldn't get past current legislation.I know, I know, there isn't room with the current engine, JLR have no money etc., but it would've been a nice touch to go with the rather token paintjob and steelies?
Also... sorry to be pedantic here, but this is the end of the 'Defender', not the end of Land Rover 'Series' vehicles altogether... so really, their homage is more accurate than yours! ... although I (as most others) do love a Series 1!
DonkeyApple said:
mwstewart said:
The Heritage seems an utter bargain at £27k.
It does but you do end up with a Defender that you're then very reluctant to use as a Defender. My favorite of the three by far though. Having had a recent windfall, my parents basically said to me "If you get rid of your old Discovery, we'll buy you a Heritage so you have something modern and reliable for commuting to work in".
The long and the short of it is, I turned them down. I want a Heritage so so much, but my Disco is far more comfy, quieter, roomier, more practical, and at the end of the day I am not afraid to modify it however I like, or use and abuse it off road.
If I had a Heritage, I'd be scared to venture off the nursery tracks.... and I've already got one very rare garage queen of a Land Rover that I will NEVER get rid of. (Sadly, having a Heritage in addition to the current 2 isnt possible for space reasons
)Edited by ChemicalChaos on Thursday 8th January 17:19
loudlashadjuster said:
Shame they didn't go to town on the Heritage and make it just a little bit more authentic...
I know, I know, there isn't room with the current engine, JLR have no money etc., but it would've been a nice touch to go with the rather token paintjob and steelies?
more to the point doesn;t meet the legal requirements that forced the lights out into the wings in the first place ...I know, I know, there isn't room with the current engine, JLR have no money etc., but it would've been a nice touch to go with the rather token paintjob and steelies?
DonkeyApple said:
neilbauer said:
AOK said:
loudlashadjuster said:
Shame they didn't go to town on the Heritage and make it just a little bit more authentic...
I know, I know, there isn't room with the current engine, JLR have no money etc., but it would've been a nice touch to go with the rather token paintjob and steelies?
Great render. I'd like to think they tried more ambitious options such as that, but it wouldn't get past current legislation.I know, I know, there isn't room with the current engine, JLR have no money etc., but it would've been a nice touch to go with the rather token paintjob and steelies?
Also... sorry to be pedantic here, but this is the end of the 'Defender', not the end of Land Rover 'Series' vehicles altogether... so really, their homage is more accurate than yours! ... although I (as most others) do love a Series 1!
Legal requirements have killed it.
Seats were changed to forward facing in 2007 for regulations.
The 2.4 is now a 2.2 for regulations and possibly supply issues after being sold from Ford.
They have kicked the can down the road for years with it.
There will be a new one. It's the halo model of the range, the ONE landy that crosses all classes and boundaries.
It's slow, badly built, has terrible ergonomics, panals gaps that are laughable, it's mpg is terrible and on road it's way behind the competition. Yet people adore it and it's a cool car.
I hope the new one has the on road manners of the competition but retains the off road ability.
The Jeep Wrangler with it's locking diffs etc shows it can be done.
Seats were changed to forward facing in 2007 for regulations.
The 2.4 is now a 2.2 for regulations and possibly supply issues after being sold from Ford.
They have kicked the can down the road for years with it.
There will be a new one. It's the halo model of the range, the ONE landy that crosses all classes and boundaries.
It's slow, badly built, has terrible ergonomics, panals gaps that are laughable, it's mpg is terrible and on road it's way behind the competition. Yet people adore it and it's a cool car.
I hope the new one has the on road manners of the competition but retains the off road ability.
The Jeep Wrangler with it's locking diffs etc shows it can be done.
Clivey said:
I wonder how easily they could adapt the Discovery platform. - Surely if the likes of VW can market eleventy billion Golfs in drag, LR can stick different bodies on the same chassis and maintain some credibility?
Does the current discovery have a ladder frame chassis?The Amarok and Hilux etc all have ladder chassis which is essential in their workhorse environment.
Interesting point on ladder chassis.
We're told the Defender is too unsafe and polluting but plenty of vehicles have ladder chassis and Ford use the Puma engine worldwide in the latest Rangers and Transits.
The reality seems to be it's too expensive to build and carry through the warranty period.
We're told the Defender is too unsafe and polluting but plenty of vehicles have ladder chassis and Ford use the Puma engine worldwide in the latest Rangers and Transits.
The reality seems to be it's too expensive to build and carry through the warranty period.
It really is down to the fact that they only sell just over 10,000 units a year and the margin on each one is small. If you add in a news to re-tool or redesign to keep compliant and it just isn't commercially viable. Especially when that factory space could be used to build more Range Rovers with much bigger margins.
The British Govt was always LR's biggest client from the outset, followed by expats across the Empire. Obviously, the Empire was in decline from the moment the Landies was launched so sales in that area could never expand so LR just relied on the British Govt to keep buying. With that one big client spending money that wasn't theirs they were happy to overpay for less so LR in classic British style didn't really think they needed to compete against Johny Foreigner. Then in the 80's we had the big privatisations of British Gas, Telecom, all the utility firms. Suddenly all the major departments outside of the MOD that the Govt had been buying Landies for had new owners and had to answer to shareholders and deliver profit growth. Ergo they switched to leasing cheaper to buy and run foreign vehicles.
The final nail was the Iraq was which saw the futility of the snatch Landies and the end of the MOD as a customer.
With private utility buyers also switching to superior foreign products from the 80s onwards and all premium customers choosing to buy the superior Range Rover which outsold the Landies almost from the day it launched in 1970 and grew ever since with more demand than the factory could supply and finally the Landy being locked out of key sales markets such as the U.S., it really has fallen to a small luxury market of buyers who are buying for the image as opposed to the real utility. And there are only so many luxury country hotels, tourist attractions or chaps in cities for whom the Landy is the right product for.
It is a terrible shame but arguably the fault lies really rather solidly with a cash strapped and classicly arrogant/lazy/scared Land Rover of the 70s making the wrong choices over the product.
The British Govt was always LR's biggest client from the outset, followed by expats across the Empire. Obviously, the Empire was in decline from the moment the Landies was launched so sales in that area could never expand so LR just relied on the British Govt to keep buying. With that one big client spending money that wasn't theirs they were happy to overpay for less so LR in classic British style didn't really think they needed to compete against Johny Foreigner. Then in the 80's we had the big privatisations of British Gas, Telecom, all the utility firms. Suddenly all the major departments outside of the MOD that the Govt had been buying Landies for had new owners and had to answer to shareholders and deliver profit growth. Ergo they switched to leasing cheaper to buy and run foreign vehicles.
The final nail was the Iraq was which saw the futility of the snatch Landies and the end of the MOD as a customer.
With private utility buyers also switching to superior foreign products from the 80s onwards and all premium customers choosing to buy the superior Range Rover which outsold the Landies almost from the day it launched in 1970 and grew ever since with more demand than the factory could supply and finally the Landy being locked out of key sales markets such as the U.S., it really has fallen to a small luxury market of buyers who are buying for the image as opposed to the real utility. And there are only so many luxury country hotels, tourist attractions or chaps in cities for whom the Landy is the right product for.
It is a terrible shame but arguably the fault lies really rather solidly with a cash strapped and classicly arrogant/lazy/scared Land Rover of the 70s making the wrong choices over the product.
NomduJour said:
Damage was done by the early '70s.
I'd agree. I think peak sales were late 60s or very early 70s at around 35k units and then fell every year as they got locked out of markets, the Rangie took sales, competition came along and the British Govt steadily stopped buying them. Huge shame.
LR should've just continued to develop the Defender - just like Porsche have done with the 911.....but then I suppose they've never really had oodles of investment money until now......MASSIVE shame, but there you go.
Fingers crossed the new one will be a winner for all markets.
BTW, I'm loving the Heritage.....I'm doing the man maths now.
Fingers crossed the new one will be a winner for all markets.
BTW, I'm loving the Heritage.....I'm doing the man maths now.
200bhp said:
Does the current discovery have a ladder frame chassis?
Not in the traditional sense - more like a monocoque on top of a separate frame.The time to sort the Land Rover out was about when the Series III was launched - they already had a reputation for breaking driveshafts and diffs, despite being woefully underpowered. A tougher driveline and proper engine options could surely have made all the difference in the export markets. Even Santana went further than LR.
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