RE: BMW M3: UK Review

[MyCC]

dulcinea said:

Can someone point me in direction of the dealers given 10-15% discount as I have not found any yet. Peter Vardy advertise £3k off list but that is the best I have come across.

Plenty of discounts to be had, this is the first modern day M3/M4 that i am aware of that never had a waiting list, which should tell you a thing or two about how well it is selling....

Happy to help if you need more info on buying etc.

Best regards,

MyCC.

[cerb4.5lee]

Mr Whippy said:

mwstewart said:

optimal909 said:

This pops up every time when the previous M3 is mentioned. No matter how peaky it is, a 4.0 V8 always delivers more than enough torque for everyday driving.
It sounds like taking 2000 quids to buy groceries may not be enough, and you are more comfortable with, let's say, 4000.

Precisely. It also comes up for the E46 but in actual fact it too is very responsive at the lower end compared to the other models in the range.

Precisely x 2.

A bottom end can be strong in isolation, but with a sparkling top end it tends to make the low end feel like it has less sparkle, despite it still being very strong.

Really these engines are just what you want. Strong and powerful for day to day work, linear and responsive for delicate work, but with a top-end worth exploring when having fun.

Torque laden, low rpm power peak engines are just bland.

Dave

The trouble is we do seem to live in a world where low end shove rules and I was guilty of disliking the low end shove of both my Z4M and E92 M3 but that's maybe because we had a 330d for 6 years so both of the M engines just felt so flat on the bottom end to me.

Don't get me wrong both the S54/S65 are very impressive at 6000rpm plus and rewarding all the more for it too. As someone else has stated its a case of be careful what you wish for and now I am experiencing a 640d which has all the low down torque you could wish for but it does leaves me flat as there isn't any reward.

So for me a weekend car needs to be a high rev N/A motor where you just drive it to find where you can stretch its legs and enjoy what its good at and then a daily driver is more suited to low end urge where you just flick your toe and the car just picks up and that's where the new M3 sits now.

[ZX10R NIN]

GreenArrow said:

All those people defending the new M3/M4 and slagging off the detractors can't get away from the fact that the normally BMW mad specialist motoring press are not keen on it and that is very unusual. It last happened with the E36 M3 which is probably these days the most unloved M3 of all. Look at the various car of the year results for 2014, EVO had it down in last but one place and they normally love M3s, CAR similar position, Top Gear didn't rate it either. Only good old Autocar seem to like it, but again it came nowhere on their drivers day test. The new car seems to be much faster than the old one and more economical but that's it. Its not like the old car was slow and I will never forget seeing Tiff Needell drift an M3 V8 around Thruxton all day long when I was doing my track day. It sounded and looked epic! Sorry guys, but it sounds like the new M3/4 needs some work to make it a classic like the E46/90.

I have had my friends M3 since for over a month now while he's away, I had the exhaust changed which improved the actual engine note for the better, his was just over 70k, 64k with the discount. I don't think it feels special enough inside the exterior looks aggressive(I prefer the saloon to the coupe as the flared arches stand out more) it's a great car when you start to lean on it but where I think it falls down is that at normal speeds the car doesn't feel special enough, this is where cars like the current C63, E46 M3, & to a lesser extent the E92 M3 have it beaten in my opinion.

It's still a good car just not a great one funnily enough my girlfriend had the choice of M3/4 to replace her C63 with but chose the Alpina D3 as she found it a more satisfying drive & preferred the interior, although it's a different type of car I'd take the M5 over the M3, a much better interior & the extra power for the same 56k makes the M5 a bit of a bargain in my opinion I know it won't handle as well is another £220 a year plus 6mpg less on fuel but if it had to be a petrol BMW I'd grab the M5

[kmack]

ZX10R NIN said:

GreenArrow said:

All those people defending the new M3/M4 and slagging off the detractors can't get away from the fact that the normally BMW mad specialist motoring press are not keen on it and that is very unusual. It last happened with the E36 M3 which is probably these days the most unloved M3 of all. Look at the various car of the year results for 2014, EVO had it down in last but one place and they normally love M3s, CAR similar position, Top Gear didn't rate it either. Only good old Autocar seem to like it, but again it came nowhere on their drivers day test. The new car seems to be much faster than the old one and more economical but that's it. Its not like the old car was slow and I will never forget seeing Tiff Needell drift an M3 V8 around Thruxton all day long when I was doing my track day. It sounded and looked epic! Sorry guys, but it sounds like the new M3/4 needs some work to make it a classic like the E46/90.

I have had my friends M3 since for over a month now while he's away, I had the exhaust changed which improved the actual engine note for the better, his was just over 70k, 64k with the discount. I don't think it feels special enough inside the exterior looks aggressive(I prefer the saloon to the coupe as the flared arches stand out more) it's a great car when you start to lean on it but where I think it falls down is that at normal speeds the car doesn't feel special enough, this is where cars like the current C63, E46 M3, & to a lesser extent the E92 M3 have it beaten in my opinion.

Interesting your girlfriend went for the diesel - see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoRAeL8qgSM

It's still a good car just not a great one funnily enough my girlfriend had the choice of M3/4 to replace her C63 with but chose the Alpina D3 as she found it a more satisfying drive & preferred the interior, although it's a different type of car I'd take the M5 over the M3, a much better interior & the extra power for the same 56k makes the M5 a bit of a bargain in my opinion I know it won't handle as well is another £220 a year plus 6mpg less on fuel but if it had to be a petrol BMW I'd grab the M5

[wideangle852]

. . BMW, still the quickest way to go into a hedge backwards and meet Jesus . . .

[cerb4.5lee]

wideangle852 said:

. . BMW, still the quickest way to go into a hedge backwards and meet Jesus . . .

Not nowadays though with all the traction aids they have on them...my old TVR on the other hand...

[Schnellmann]

Don't think I have seen an M3 on the road and yet passed two in traffic this evening...then checked PH when I got home to find this review. Timely.

I've had an E46 and an E93 M3. Much preferred the former. Currently have M135i as a run around. It is very quick but power delivery is not good. Without traction control it would be a liability as the wheels spin on very low throttle application (even with winter tyres). Don't recall having problems with the E46 (which would of course let go - but only if deliberately provoked).

[bigtime]

I currently have an e92 M3 and have never thought it's something 'special' even though it's been the best and most expensive car I've owned. I've never felt the lack of low down grunt was an issue and always enjoy taking it to 8400rpm when possible. A few weeks back I test drove the M4 and 991 carrera s back to back at Newcastle. I felt the M4 was good and really enjoyed the thrust from the turbos which my current car lacks. It wasn't as enjoyable at the redline though. To me it would be a more enjoyable car as I don't get to ring the E92's neck on my commute to work which is the majority of my driving. It also feels and looks more modern and I liked the fact it had 2 M buttons rather than one (one for fun one for commuting). I jumped into the 991 and was expecting it to blow me away and feel 'special'. I liked it but probably had more fun in the M4 as I had to think more about applying the power due to all the torque. The 991 has more torque than my current V8 and is lighter so I expected it to pull harder from lower revs which it didn't. The V8 seems to build revs quicker. All cars are dct btw. It must be me but the one I test drove was £100k which made the £62k with options M4 look like a bargain. I wish there was something in between the 991 and M4 that I liked but there isn't. I loved the chuck ability of the 991 and the sound when going for it. A second hand 991 or new/nearly new M4 will hopefully be on my drive before the summer.

[Rockstar]

mwstewart said:

Precisely. It also comes up for the E46 but in actual fact it too is very responsive at the lower end compared to the other models in the range.

This is true the E46 despite it's google reputation of being extremely peaky has in fact quite a broad torque band with it's linear continuous variable valve timing, people forget it is only 3.2 litres. Initially I wondered if something was not quite right with mine due to the relative lack of perceived thump in the back and perceived lack of explosively attacking the rev limiter in the upper rpm ranges.

This perception was generated not so much by a lack of top end but rather the surprisingly broad torque band. It doesn't feel as though it reaches a point in the rev range where it comes "on cam"(poor description but can't think of a better way to put it)like certain n/a motors with fixed valve train setups(no variable valve timing etc) that have been optimized to perform best at specific engine speeds.

A quick jump back into my C320 that gave the impression of very rapid on road acceleration (with the help of variable induction tract length witchcraft for good mid range) gave me great relief when I could subjectively see that the Merc's initial surge on kick down was a red herring as it was all out of tricks above 5,500rpm.

It depends on what you are accustomed to of course and even with it's "peaky" motor the fact that with DSC off the M3 will easily spin up it's oversive 275 width rear tyres in first gear from 3000rpm onwards indicates it isn't too lacking on the bottom end. Pity about the exorbitant maintenance and fuel consumption but worth it.

M-cars have always been a compromise between racing pretensions and luxury but for my personal tastes(perhaps already with the E9x M3's and most definitely the F10 M5's onwards) they have been leaning too far towards everyday usability and refinement catering for a larger market of not necessarily die hard enthusiasts(Can't blame them they are a company and will pursue the most profitable course of action)

Good car, incredibly fast but much like the many good fast but ultimately uninspiring cars their competitors in this segment have produced in the past the new M3/M4 is not for me.

Edited by Rockstar on Wednesday 7th January 20:37

[robsouthern]

ManOpener said:

When the latter group in particular stop comprising the majority of their sales market.
Enthusiasts are pretty firmly in the minority when it comes to buying most even "sporting" and "performance" stuff IMO.

You are right. And that my friend is a real fking shame.

[JMF894]

Mike Roberts said:

I had a jolly at Oulton driving these, and can confirm they're deeply frustrating unless you're turning most of the stuff up to 11. At that point it'll go like a stabbed rat, but its capability is far greater than our roads allow for.

I still want one, but you'd spend 90% of your time with it pulling at the lead. Which is a bit of a sad waste.

This. But to be fair, for the average driver (most of us), anything from a warm hatch upwards is wasted in real terms..............

Just sayin'

Jimbo

[W12JFD]

Sadly, I think this review will set the tone for a while to come now that regulations mean turbos are the only way to go seriously quick. Speaking as a former Renault 5 turbo owner I think the answer is to leave all of the character in place rather than try and hide it.

[nicholasm]

I've only driven mine in the gloom of the British winter, so I'm looking forward to seeing what it's like on the Portimao track under clear blue Portuguese skies.

My thoughts on the new M3 as a road car, though, FWIW:

The S55 engine isn't as different to the S65 as expected, probably thanks to the twin monoscroll turbos making the throttle response as sharp as possible for forced induction. Yes, the previous V8 has more character but the new powertrain's delivery is just as compelling once you're used to the torque building so quickly.

Most negative points I've read in reviews have concerned the steering but I think it's spot on. Well weighted and you can feel what the front axle is doing when you lean on it.

As for Mike Duff's assertion that it sounds like a vacuum cleaner at high revs ( http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI... )... well, that can be fixed:

Edited by nicholasm on Wednesday 7th January 22:55

[urquattroGus]

Amusing to see that the new M3 was flavour if the month and now it's not, magazines can change their opinion quite markedly.

In fairness I suppose these opinions can be formed on longer tests.

I also seem to remember that the e92 was not universally well reviewed to begin with, but then seemed to "mature"

[Rahul uk]

For the first time in 10 years my driveway does not have a BMW sitting on it. Having owned an E46 M3 and E60 M5 and M135i (not sure if we can call that an M car) I decided to try an E92 M3, C63 and F20 M3 recently. The C63 is where I put my money and for once I am not lusting after the next car and spending hours clicking through the Pistonheads Classifieds. So for all you car addicts out there, buy a C63 it will be cheaper in the long run. Something was just missing in the F20 M3...it has no soul, no character. Who knows maybe BMW will make an M car I actually want again at some point in the future.

The C63 is simple in comparison and excites on every drive at any speed, but I like it that way. Mapping can take this car from 457hp to 500hp easily, not that it needs any more power and torque. All I need now is 1M for weekend duty...please god let the prices on these drop with the M2 arriving soon.

[Guvernator]

You'd think that with all the techno trickery available these days with 5 different sport modes, multiple suspension modes and even modes for how quickly you want the car to change gear, someone could come up with a way to change the power map so that you could have a low down torque monster for commuting and then with a press of a button, move the power and torque further up the rev range, remove the plateau and make it more linear in it's delivery.

That way you cater for the commuters who just want the no fuss, no drama drive and also for the more enthusiastic driver who likes to work for their driving enjoyment or just those who like to switch between both as the mood dictates. They've made every other mode switchable, just really surprised no one has come up with programmable power map till now. Stuff like this is even available in the tuner aftermarket so not sure why the manufacturers haven't cottoned on. Then cars like M3 really could offer the best of both worlds.

[CheesyFootballs]

The M3 is not a bad car - it's not a great granted, but for someone bored of the default derv versions it makes for a good , capable everyday car.

What it certainly isn't though, is good enough as a weekend toy.

[ZX10R NIN]

kmack said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoRAeL8qgSM

Thanks for the link it was very interesting view I showed it to her she's now feeling very smug with herself, I'm not sure it's a good thing next she'll be giving her opinion on what I buy lol

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Thursday 8th January 00:27

[Effjay]

Guvernator said:

You'd think that with all the techno trickery available these days with 5 different sport modes, multiple suspension modes and even modes for how quickly you want the car to change gear, someone could come up with a way to change the power map so that you could have a low down torque monster for commuting and then with a press of a button, move the power and torque further up the rev range, remove the plateau and make it more linear in it's delivery.

That way you cater for the commuters who just want the no fuss, no drama drive and also for the more enthusiastic driver who likes to work for their driving enjoyment or just those who like to switch between both as the mood dictates. They've made every other mode switchable, just really surprised no one has come up with programmable power map till now. Stuff like this is even available in the tuner aftermarket so not sure why the manufacturers haven't cottoned on. Then cars like M3 really could offer the best of both worlds.

Ferrari have sort of done this with the new turbo engine in the California haven't they? Gears 1-4 are mapped so the boost/power increases with the revs to create a n/a like power curve, as opposed to having a diesel like delivery with full power available from low revs. The upper gears have full power available everywhere though to avoid unnecessary down changing when cruising etc.

I'm looking to get some tuning done on my XKR soon and would prefer to just increase power in the upper rpm's really; the engine already has enough down low so it would make it a bit more rewarding on the occasions where I'm pressing on.

[cerb4.5lee]

Guvernator said:

You'd think that with all the techno trickery available these days with 5 different sport modes, multiple suspension modes and even modes for how quickly you want the car to change gear, someone could come up with a way to change the power map so that you could have a low down torque monster for commuting and then with a press of a button, move the power and torque further up the rev range, remove the plateau and make it more linear in it's delivery.

That way you cater for the commuters who just want the no fuss, no drama drive and also for the more enthusiastic driver who likes to work for their driving enjoyment or just those who like to switch between both as the mood dictates. They've made every other mode switchable, just really surprised no one has come up with programmable power map till now. Stuff like this is even available in the tuner aftermarket so not sure why the manufacturers haven't cottoned on. Then cars like M3 really could offer the best of both worlds.

I really like the way you think and that's spot on.