RE: Honda NSX - Detroit 2015
Discussion
mrclav said:
Dagnut said:
How do you credit the NSX with taking the lead with Hybrid technology? What exactly is this car doing that is new?
I didn't say it was taking the lead. I said it was bringing the tech employed by other makers at a far lower price point. What is new is the price point if not the tech itself (although it is still all pretty new).forzaminardi said:
If PH were around in 1989, I think the comments around the original NSX would be virtually the same as appearing now about the NSX2:
- looks like a restyled pastiche of other contemporary junior supercars.
- lacks the desirability of a Ferrari/Porsche/insert some specialist non-mainstream car brand.
- who'd buy a £XXX,XXX Honda?
- not as powerful as a [insert another car from another manufacturer that costs considerably more]
- technologically impressive but lacking any emotional appeal.
- why bother, who's going to buy it?
The reality is that the original NSX is now regarded as a bona-fide classic and the true progenitor of the likes of the Ferrari 355 and successors, the Audi R8, and everyday useable 911s. The point of the car, like the original NSX, isn't to sell loads and loads, it is to showcase what Honda can do and act as a rallying point for the technological and engineering prowess of the company. Indeed, the lesson we can take from the experience of the first NSX is that the car was so advanced in concept that it's only in retrospect that we can see it's effect on the wider market. This of, course, adds to the value of Mk1 NSXs today, and is why the car is so highly regarded around the World. If the Mk2 does something similar (in a much more competitive market) then it will have been a success, even if like the original they only sell a small amount.
except : - looks like a restyled pastiche of other contemporary junior supercars.
- lacks the desirability of a Ferrari/Porsche/insert some specialist non-mainstream car brand.
- who'd buy a £XXX,XXX Honda?
- not as powerful as a [insert another car from another manufacturer that costs considerably more]
- technologically impressive but lacking any emotional appeal.
- why bother, who's going to buy it?
The reality is that the original NSX is now regarded as a bona-fide classic and the true progenitor of the likes of the Ferrari 355 and successors, the Audi R8, and everyday useable 911s. The point of the car, like the original NSX, isn't to sell loads and loads, it is to showcase what Honda can do and act as a rallying point for the technological and engineering prowess of the company. Indeed, the lesson we can take from the experience of the first NSX is that the car was so advanced in concept that it's only in retrospect that we can see it's effect on the wider market. This of, course, adds to the value of Mk1 NSXs today, and is why the car is so highly regarded around the World. If the Mk2 does something similar (in a much more competitive market) then it will have been a success, even if like the original they only sell a small amount.
- it looked like a new car, while from side profile it just a little bit reminded of 348 it was not even close as this new one is close to R8
- nope, Honda was F1 champion couple of years in a row, it had Senna to promote it which was quite enough for any PH to desire it, hell it was used as a "starting point" in designing McLaren F1, ask Gordon Murray
- it was half the price of 348, this one is like 75% price of Italia
- for 1989 270 HP and 270 km/h top speed was enough
- huh? it had emotional appeal which it has even today, probably the best japanese car if we are at that
- it sold very well...
GroundEffect said:
The motors will be inboard, almost guaranteed...
You guys missed the photos then.....bottom of the pagehttp://vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=121894...
AreOut said:
except :
- it looked like a new car, while from side profile it just a little bit reminded of 348 it was not even close as this new one is close to R8
- nope, Honda was F1 champion couple of years in a row, it had Senna to promote it which was quite enough for any PH to desire it, hell it was used as a "starting point" in designing McLaren F1, ask Gordon Murray
- it was half the price of 348, this one is like 75% price of Italia
- for 1989 270 HP and 270 km/h top speed was enough
- huh? it had emotional appeal which it has even today, probably the best japanese car if we are at that
- it sold very well...
In what world is 400 UK cars over 15 years "selling very well"?- it looked like a new car, while from side profile it just a little bit reminded of 348 it was not even close as this new one is close to R8
- nope, Honda was F1 champion couple of years in a row, it had Senna to promote it which was quite enough for any PH to desire it, hell it was used as a "starting point" in designing McLaren F1, ask Gordon Murray
- it was half the price of 348, this one is like 75% price of Italia
- for 1989 270 HP and 270 km/h top speed was enough
- huh? it had emotional appeal which it has even today, probably the best japanese car if we are at that
- it sold very well...
Edited by mrclav on Tuesday 13th January 17:07
pistondan77 said:
dxg said:
Sadly, I think it's an overly-fussy design that's going to date badly - particularly the front. It's not going to be a classic like the original.
Totally agree. A technological showcase for sure, but what a styling hash-up. Externals like the internals - confusing and overly complicated.AreOut said:
forzaminardi said:
If PH were around in 1989, I think the comments around the original NSX would be virtually the same as appearing now about the NSX2:
- looks like a restyled pastiche of other contemporary junior supercars.
- lacks the desirability of a Ferrari/Porsche/insert some specialist non-mainstream car brand.
- who'd buy a £XXX,XXX Honda?
- not as powerful as a [insert another car from another manufacturer that costs considerably more]
- technologically impressive but lacking any emotional appeal.
- why bother, who's going to buy it?
The reality is that the original NSX is now regarded as a bona-fide classic and the true progenitor of the likes of the Ferrari 355 and successors, the Audi R8, and everyday useable 911s. The point of the car, like the original NSX, isn't to sell loads and loads, it is to showcase what Honda can do and act as a rallying point for the technological and engineering prowess of the company. Indeed, the lesson we can take from the experience of the first NSX is that the car was so advanced in concept that it's only in retrospect that we can see it's effect on the wider market. This of, course, adds to the value of Mk1 NSXs today, and is why the car is so highly regarded around the World. If the Mk2 does something similar (in a much more competitive market) then it will have been a success, even if like the original they only sell a small amount.
except : - looks like a restyled pastiche of other contemporary junior supercars.
- lacks the desirability of a Ferrari/Porsche/insert some specialist non-mainstream car brand.
- who'd buy a £XXX,XXX Honda?
- not as powerful as a [insert another car from another manufacturer that costs considerably more]
- technologically impressive but lacking any emotional appeal.
- why bother, who's going to buy it?
The reality is that the original NSX is now regarded as a bona-fide classic and the true progenitor of the likes of the Ferrari 355 and successors, the Audi R8, and everyday useable 911s. The point of the car, like the original NSX, isn't to sell loads and loads, it is to showcase what Honda can do and act as a rallying point for the technological and engineering prowess of the company. Indeed, the lesson we can take from the experience of the first NSX is that the car was so advanced in concept that it's only in retrospect that we can see it's effect on the wider market. This of, course, adds to the value of Mk1 NSXs today, and is why the car is so highly regarded around the World. If the Mk2 does something similar (in a much more competitive market) then it will have been a success, even if like the original they only sell a small amount.
- it looked like a new car, while from side profile it just a little bit reminded of 348 it was not even close as this new one is close to R8
- nope, Honda was F1 champion couple of years in a row, it had Senna to promote it which was quite enough for any PH to desire it, hell it was used as a "starting point" in designing McLaren F1, ask Gordon Murray
- it was half the price of 348, this one is like 75% price of Italia
- for 1989 270 HP and 270 km/h top speed was enough
- huh? it had emotional appeal which it has even today, probably the best japanese car if we are at that
- it sold very well...
As you show, the comments I listed (which were derived from the comments made on this thread, not my own opinion), when applied to the original NSX, are completely bonkers, leading me to wonder if all the people saying "meh" to the new NSX might be making a mistake to dismiss it so easily on such flimsy grounds. Finally, neither you or I necessarily agree with the comments I listed, but the fact is that they do indeed reflect what a lot of people thought at the time - which reinforces the point, and ultimately contribute to the original being so highly regarded today.
Blayney said:
hondansx said:
A bit harsh, i think. Whilst this is not 'pure' like the original NSX, all cars were fairly simple in the early '90s. The groundbreaking things in the first car are pretty ordinary now; you've got to admit this looks like an AMAZING amount of tech for not a lot of money. Suspect it will be more than £100k though; we won't pay like-for-like on the touted $150k figure.
I wavered on putting a deposit down last year; starting to regret it! As said, looks like it an incredible amount of technology and potential pace at the price point. Slightly confused that you can order in the Summer when the order book was 'closed.' Perhaps that was for the first year's allocation...
I'm not sure it is harsh, but to each their own. I'm interested to hear you're opinion on why you wavered and also why you regret it? From checking your profile I can see you have a lot of driving experience and a fleet/car history that suggests you like driver focused cars (motorsport elise, NSX, 911 etc). These are all things I aspire too and yet this car does nothing for me. Just want to understand your viewpoint. Is it the tech for the price, or is it just the NSX badge?I wavered on putting a deposit down last year; starting to regret it! As said, looks like it an incredible amount of technology and potential pace at the price point. Slightly confused that you can order in the Summer when the order book was 'closed.' Perhaps that was for the first year's allocation...
Fundamentally though, i still think it looks great and i can't believe twin turbos, three electric motors and 4WD won't be laugh out loud fun. I don't get the comments about it being the same as i8; it has a Mini engine for Christ's sake!
ecsrobin said:
F1GTRUeno said:
rb26 said:
It does look good in profile
Someone needs to photoshop an original NSX style rear wing onto it.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02645/...
te sorryGroundEffect said:
alexpa said:
What are the numbers please????
Is 1500kg at the kerb, 750bhp and 750lbft a reasonable (hopefull!!) guess
Why make it 550bhp system total, why match the GTR when you have two motors to assist
3.5l TT V6 say 550bhp and 100bhp at each front wheel from the motors. Could really push the boat out and make the motors inboard (less unsprung weight) and replace the front brakes altogether (even less unsprung weight) - for full re-gen.
The motors will be inboard, almost guaranteed...Is 1500kg at the kerb, 750bhp and 750lbft a reasonable (hopefull!!) guess
Why make it 550bhp system total, why match the GTR when you have two motors to assist
3.5l TT V6 say 550bhp and 100bhp at each front wheel from the motors. Could really push the boat out and make the motors inboard (less unsprung weight) and replace the front brakes altogether (even less unsprung weight) - for full re-gen.
Really hope they didn't hold back on the power.
A competitor could be the Mclaren Sport Series, but really no reason why the 650S and 458 TT replacement (guessing 700hp, 600lbft) shouldn't also be.
Mcl are at 650bhp with their 3.8l TT V8, no reason why Honda couldn't reliably, with decent serviceability match the ratio.
Unless Honda are bringing something to the table that weighs less than 1300kg wet at the kerb.
IMO 500bhp/kerb tonne is where they could and should be.
Fingers crossed Honda.
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