RE: Honda NSX - Detroit 2015
Discussion
forzaminardi said:
The point of the car, like the original NSX, isn't to sell loads and loads, it is to showcase what Honda can do and act as a rallying point for the technological and engineering prowess of the company.
For further Honda Technology Showcase, I encourage people to read up on the Honda NR750 motorcycle. A very expensive bike, with 4 oval pistons, 32 valves and other tech (fancy dash, PGM fuel injection which at the time was a novel thing on bikes and probably loads of other tech). It was very expensive, very heavy, no more powerful than a bike a quarter of its price. But the tech was incredible and testament to what Honda engineers could achieve at the time.
Hugely over-designed front end that they have managed to make ugly, then added styling cues from Audi and 1970s Ferrari - with a touch of Vauxhall Tigra on the back panel. All presumably because they know how to please their North American target audience. It has plenty of technology but I expected much better styling.
It looks like something that was cobbled together for a new computer game, a Photoshop special.
It looks like something that was cobbled together for a new computer game, a Photoshop special.
Twin turbos and electric motors doesn't really interest me. I can't help wondering what the power output and weight would be with just a pure V6 on its own and whether it would meet emissions requirements that way? If not, I'll just stick to browsing the classifieds for a late model 3.2 NSX 
Kozy said:
P1 tech for £100k? I can excuse the styling, I quite like it actually.
Doesn't the Prius offer P1 tech for £20k? 
Seriously though, you're right and I expect it'll be like the Nissan GTR vs the 911 Turbo in that it'll have western car manufactuers scratching their heads about its performance. Not for me though.
I remember when Honda launched the last Legend with it's clever 'Super Handling All Wheel Drive' 4wd trickery. If I remember rightly, although it's a softly sprung luxobarge and rolls around like a pair of Sumo wrestlers jelly wrestling on the Costa Concordia, road testers were impressed by its ability to maintain a line and grip due to the clever traction system. If Honda have refined the systems sufficiently (and haven't they had a long time to do it!), this could in fact be a very, very accomplished car without the Playstation behaviour attributed to (the much larger) GTR.
I must say, I'm a bit surprised by some of the comments!
We don't know the weight yet, the power outputs (other than circa)and nobody has driven it!
I think it looks inoffensive at worst, but as ever, looks are in the eye of....
There are comments about how it's not as 'pure' as the last model, yet, I'll bet if it didn't have the tech, most would be saying it was a decade behind the competition. The people with the cash to go out and actually buy it, WILL be attracted by the latest tech and not likely to get all misty eyed by the old one, if they even remember it!!
On a side note, the thing that really worries about all this tech, is when it goes wrong, and it will! Out of warranty, it'll be interesting to see how reliable these cars are and what the repairs/running costs will be. At least in this instance, it's a Honda, and should be better than 'most'!
It'll be equally interesting when this tech filters down to more regular cars (and it will) to see what reliability and costs will be like!!
We don't know the weight yet, the power outputs (other than circa)and nobody has driven it!
I think it looks inoffensive at worst, but as ever, looks are in the eye of....
There are comments about how it's not as 'pure' as the last model, yet, I'll bet if it didn't have the tech, most would be saying it was a decade behind the competition. The people with the cash to go out and actually buy it, WILL be attracted by the latest tech and not likely to get all misty eyed by the old one, if they even remember it!!
On a side note, the thing that really worries about all this tech, is when it goes wrong, and it will! Out of warranty, it'll be interesting to see how reliable these cars are and what the repairs/running costs will be. At least in this instance, it's a Honda, and should be better than 'most'!
It'll be equally interesting when this tech filters down to more regular cars (and it will) to see what reliability and costs will be like!!
allergictocheese said:
I remember when Honda launched the last Legend with it's clever 'Super Handling All Wheel Drive' 4wd trickery. If I remember rightly, although it's a softly sprung luxobarge and rolls around like a pair of Sumo wrestlers jelly wrestling on the Costa Concordia, road testers were impressed by its ability to maintain a line and grip due to the clever traction system. If Honda have refined the systems sufficiently (and haven't they had a long time to do it!), this could in fact be a very, very accomplished car without the Playstation behaviour attributed to (the much larger) GTR.
^This.... NSX will change how you think cornering should be done, and supposedly a sub 7 minute Ring time too (not that that matters of course 
)...The reason we're not all amazed by its looks, is because we've seen them for 3 years running.
But watch the youtube vid from the Detroit launch, half way through their design/r&d process, they thought eh, no, we need to rethink this again, and built a bespoke v6, not just a juiced up version of the current RLX/Legend engine as what happened with the original NSX.
Edited by Thunder18 on Tuesday 13th January 10:04
forzaminardi said:
If PH were around in 1989, I think the comments around the original NSX would be virtually the same as appearing now about the NSX2:
- looks like a restyled pastiche of other contemporary junior supercars.
- lacks the desirability of a Ferrari/Porsche/insert some specialist non-mainstream car brand.
- who'd buy a £XXX,XXX Honda?
- not as powerful as a [insert another car from another manufacturer that costs considerably more]
- technologically impressive but lacking any emotional appeal.
- why bother, who's going to buy it?
The reality is that the original NSX is now regarded as a bona-fide classic and the true progenitor of the likes of the Ferrari 355 and successors, the Audi R8, and everyday useable 911s. The point of the car, like the original NSX, isn't to sell loads and loads, it is to showcase what Honda can do and act as a rallying point for the technological and engineering prowess of the company. Indeed, the lesson we can take from the experience of the first NSX is that the car was so advanced in concept that it's only in retrospect that we can see it's effect on the wider market. This of, course, adds to the value of Mk1 NSXs today, and is why the car is so highly regarded around the World. If the Mk2 does something similar (in a much more competitive market) then it will have been a success, even if like the original they only sell a small amount.
I think this is the most well-balanced argument on this thread.- looks like a restyled pastiche of other contemporary junior supercars.
- lacks the desirability of a Ferrari/Porsche/insert some specialist non-mainstream car brand.
- who'd buy a £XXX,XXX Honda?
- not as powerful as a [insert another car from another manufacturer that costs considerably more]
- technologically impressive but lacking any emotional appeal.
- why bother, who's going to buy it?
The reality is that the original NSX is now regarded as a bona-fide classic and the true progenitor of the likes of the Ferrari 355 and successors, the Audi R8, and everyday useable 911s. The point of the car, like the original NSX, isn't to sell loads and loads, it is to showcase what Honda can do and act as a rallying point for the technological and engineering prowess of the company. Indeed, the lesson we can take from the experience of the first NSX is that the car was so advanced in concept that it's only in retrospect that we can see it's effect on the wider market. This of, course, adds to the value of Mk1 NSXs today, and is why the car is so highly regarded around the World. If the Mk2 does something similar (in a much more competitive market) then it will have been a success, even if like the original they only sell a small amount.
Everyone is so quick forget the original NSX in its day was NOT regarded as a "classic" at all and the fact Honda couldn't shift even 19,000 of them worldwide over 15(!) years of production proves that; about 400 were sold in the UK at a cost equivalent to about £130-140k today. To get all rose-tinted about it now is a bit asinine as the world has moved on and like it or not, electric motors and turbos are here to stay. People better get used to the fact there will no longer be N/A VTEC screamers, cars will have a certain level of homogeny in their styling due to aerodynamics and yes, the car wasn't ever designed or styled for the UK - not that many in this country would buy it even if it was approved by the cognoscenti on here.
Personally I have total faith in Honda's engineering nous and this cars ability based on the technologies employed is already getting me excited. The only ways in which Honda really changed the game with the Mk1 was in relation to its reliability and handling, not its styling (particularly not its interior) nor its outright performance in relation to its competitors. People didn't want to pay the price as "who'd spend that on a Honda/Acura"? From what I can see this car is essentially going to offer similar cutting-edge tech to cars like the P1, LaFerrari and Porsche's 918 for about a tenth of the cost - coupled great performance, reliability and a price less than its forefather? I'd say that's a no-brainer win and definitely in keeping with the spirit of the original.
2015 is going to be a great year for sports cars!
Edited by mrclav on Tuesday 13th January 10:16
mrclav said:
forzaminardi said:
If PH were around in 1989, I think the comments around the original NSX would be virtually the same as appearing now about the NSX2:
- looks like a restyled pastiche of other contemporary junior supercars.
- lacks the desirability of a Ferrari/Porsche/insert some specialist non-mainstream car brand.
- who'd buy a £XXX,XXX Honda?
- not as powerful as a [insert another car from another manufacturer that costs considerably more]
- technologically impressive but lacking any emotional appeal.
- why bother, who's going to buy it?
The reality is that the original NSX is now regarded as a bona-fide classic and the true progenitor of the likes of the Ferrari 355 and successors, the Audi R8, and everyday useable 911s. The point of the car, like the original NSX, isn't to sell loads and loads, it is to showcase what Honda can do and act as a rallying point for the technological and engineering prowess of the company. Indeed, the lesson we can take from the experience of the first NSX is that the car was so advanced in concept that it's only in retrospect that we can see it's effect on the wider market. This of, course, adds to the value of Mk1 NSXs today, and is why the car is so highly regarded around the World. If the Mk2 does something similar (in a much more competitive market) then it will have been a success, even if like the original they only sell a small amount.
I think this is the most well-balanced argument on this thread.- looks like a restyled pastiche of other contemporary junior supercars.
- lacks the desirability of a Ferrari/Porsche/insert some specialist non-mainstream car brand.
- who'd buy a £XXX,XXX Honda?
- not as powerful as a [insert another car from another manufacturer that costs considerably more]
- technologically impressive but lacking any emotional appeal.
- why bother, who's going to buy it?
The reality is that the original NSX is now regarded as a bona-fide classic and the true progenitor of the likes of the Ferrari 355 and successors, the Audi R8, and everyday useable 911s. The point of the car, like the original NSX, isn't to sell loads and loads, it is to showcase what Honda can do and act as a rallying point for the technological and engineering prowess of the company. Indeed, the lesson we can take from the experience of the first NSX is that the car was so advanced in concept that it's only in retrospect that we can see it's effect on the wider market. This of, course, adds to the value of Mk1 NSXs today, and is why the car is so highly regarded around the World. If the Mk2 does something similar (in a much more competitive market) then it will have been a success, even if like the original they only sell a small amount.
Everyone is so quick forget the original NSX in its day was NOT regarded as a "classic" at all and the fact Honda couldn't shift even 19,000 of them worldwide over 15(!) years of production proves that; about 400 were sold in the UK at a cost equivalent to about £130-140k today. To get all rose-tinted about it now is a bit asinine as the world has moved on and like it or not, electric motors and turbos are here to stay. People better get used to the fact there will no longer be N/A VTEC screamers, cars will have a certain level of homogeny in their styling due to aerodynamics and yes, the car wasn't ever designed or styled for the UK - not that many in this country would buy it even if it was approved by the cognoscenti on here.
Personally I have total faith in Honda's engineering nous and this cars ability based on the technologies employed is already getting me excited. The only ways in which Honda really changed the game with the Mk1 was in relation to its reliability and handling, not its styling (particularly not its interior) or its outright performance in relation to its competitors. People didn't want to pay the price as "who'd spend that on a Honda/Acura"? From what I can see this car is essentially going to offer similar cutting-edge tech to cars like the P1, LaFerrari and Porsche's 918 for about a tenth of the cost - coupled great performance, reliability and a price less than it's forefather? I'd say that's a no-brainer win and definitely in keeping with the spirit of the original.
2015 is going to be a great year for sports cars!
The new NSX is interesting for its tech, less-so for its styling (it's made in the USA for USAians, it's trying to be modern instead of elegant). So I only care about how it goes, turns and stops. And as a Honda fan in general, hope that it's as much of a revelation as the original was. Sadly, if it's $150000 there, it's more likely to be £120000 here.
I'm intrigued to find out more about the late change to a longitudinal V6 from the transverse that was originally planned.
I'm intrigued to find out more about the late change to a longitudinal V6 from the transverse that was originally planned.
allergictocheese said:
I remember when Honda launched the last Legend with it's clever 'Super Handling All Wheel Drive' 4wd trickery. If I remember rightly, although it's a softly sprung luxobarge and rolls around like a pair of Sumo wrestlers jelly wrestling on the Costa Concordia, road testers were impressed by its ability to maintain a line and grip due to the clever traction system. If Honda have refined the systems sufficiently (and haven't they had a long time to do it!), this could in fact be a very, very accomplished car without the Playstation behaviour attributed to (the much larger) GTR.
That's exactly what Plato said after testing the SH-AWD Legend; he wanted to try the same set up in a performance car. Is he still a PHer? Maybe he can come back and tell us.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff