RE: £7,395 996 'GT3': Spotted
Discussion
turboslippers said:
I see your point and partially agree. I'm going down the route of fitting paddle shifters to mine as the buttons only make the compromised situation worse.
With mine being a mincing convertible as well it's far enough away from a purist C2 that I'm actually not too bothered though. It was the missus who was pushing for a 911 and her two stipulations were...convertible and automatic. It was either that or something like Chrysler Ypsilon appearing on the drive. As such, ANY model of 911 is better than 97% of any other car she was thinking of buying. And for cruising down through France this year I think it'll make a a really nice tourer. I just accept it's not going to be much cop on a track but then I have a track-car to address that itch...
I don't think the actual box box is 'too' bad (later 3.6 models I believe have different electronics which reacts better?)...in fact, it seems quite popular on the TT's? I suppose it works quite nicely with that engine and the massive amount of torque it has. Agree that on a free-spinning NA engine such as these though, ideally you want the manual gearbox.
One thing to note with the automatics is IMS (and RMS) inspection/replacement is a different ball game. There is obviously no clutch change at which point it will get dealt with. As I understand on 3.4's it CAN be done with engine in but for the later 3.6 tiptronic S, you can't split the transmission off in situ so it's an engine out job to get to the IMS.
Ben
In fairness, I think your assessment of the Tip Box is probably more reasonable than mine. I spent very little time test driving a C2 tip and I hated it, but it might be because I don't like autoboxes in general. My understanding is that the software adapts to the driving style, so it can be pretty effective if used properly. And I absolutely agree that an auto 911 is still a million miles better than most other cars out there. With mine being a mincing convertible as well it's far enough away from a purist C2 that I'm actually not too bothered though. It was the missus who was pushing for a 911 and her two stipulations were...convertible and automatic. It was either that or something like Chrysler Ypsilon appearing on the drive. As such, ANY model of 911 is better than 97% of any other car she was thinking of buying. And for cruising down through France this year I think it'll make a a really nice tourer. I just accept it's not going to be much cop on a track but then I have a track-car to address that itch...
I don't think the actual box box is 'too' bad (later 3.6 models I believe have different electronics which reacts better?)...in fact, it seems quite popular on the TT's? I suppose it works quite nicely with that engine and the massive amount of torque it has. Agree that on a free-spinning NA engine such as these though, ideally you want the manual gearbox.
One thing to note with the automatics is IMS (and RMS) inspection/replacement is a different ball game. There is obviously no clutch change at which point it will get dealt with. As I understand on 3.4's it CAN be done with engine in but for the later 3.6 tiptronic S, you can't split the transmission off in situ so it's an engine out job to get to the IMS.
Ben
On the IMS, I had mine replaced (the bearing, not the shaft) without the need to take the engine out. Not a big job and not expensive. Parts from Pelican and a really good local specialist in Stockton on Tees. I had an oil change and thermostat at the same time. Very good for peace of mind.
My car is on nearly 130,000 miles and it's by far the best car I have ever had. To the point that I couldn't bring myself to sell it when I moved to Singapore and I keep it in storage where a bloke rolls the tyres and runs her through a full heat cycle every 3 weeks. I couldn't care less about what it's worth. The closest thing to it is a 997S but I dare say they're not as nice to drive.
(edited for spelling)
turboslippers said:
Scuttle shake, in my opinion, is way less than a E36/E46.
From owners I spoke to, the cut off point for kids in back is anything from 9-15 depending on their lankyness, how far you have the seat infront back etc. Bear in mind the convertible has a steeper rake on the rear seat which compromises the rear.
Thanks Mr T SlippersFrom owners I spoke to, the cut off point for kids in back is anything from 9-15 depending on their lankyness, how far you have the seat infront back etc. Bear in mind the convertible has a steeper rake on the rear seat which compromises the rear.
Hmm, I'm used to 2 seater convertibles like Lotus and TVR where scuttle shake is very limited if at all, the old Targa I drove last year had the scuttle, dash, steering all moving in different directions.
TBH I am not a fan of 4 seater convertibles they generally don't look quite balanced aesthetically (except possibly the latest 197 Mustangs but they are out of my price range).
Son is 9 and tallest in class so rear seats might be the deciding factor (or adoption) and yes I've noticed the rear seats are rather vertical.
Is the £5k 911 now a reality?
http://www.gumtree.com/p/porsche/porsche-911-996-c...
Granted it's on Gumtree, so the usual to advice to run, don't walk, away may apply, but on paper that's a lot of car for 5 bags of sand...
http://www.gumtree.com/p/porsche/porsche-911-996-c...
Granted it's on Gumtree, so the usual to advice to run, don't walk, away may apply, but on paper that's a lot of car for 5 bags of sand...
TTwiggy said:
Is the £5k 911 now a reality?
http://www.gumtree.com/p/porsche/porsche-911-996-c...
Granted it's on Gumtree, so the usual to advice to run, don't walk, away may apply, but on paper that's a lot of car for 5 bags of sand...
Haha. Look at the photos.http://www.gumtree.com/p/porsche/porsche-911-996-c...
Granted it's on Gumtree, so the usual to advice to run, don't walk, away may apply, but on paper that's a lot of car for 5 bags of sand...
mwstewart said:
TTwiggy said:
Is the £5k 911 now a reality?
http://www.gumtree.com/p/porsche/porsche-911-996-c...
Granted it's on Gumtree, so the usual to advice to run, don't walk, away may apply, but on paper that's a lot of car for 5 bags of sand...
Haha. Look at the photos.http://www.gumtree.com/p/porsche/porsche-911-996-c...
Granted it's on Gumtree, so the usual to advice to run, don't walk, away may apply, but on paper that's a lot of car for 5 bags of sand...
TTwiggy said:
mwstewart said:
TTwiggy said:
Is the £5k 911 now a reality?
http://www.gumtree.com/p/porsche/porsche-911-996-c...
Granted it's on Gumtree, so the usual to advice to run, don't walk, away may apply, but on paper that's a lot of car for 5 bags of sand...
Haha. Look at the photos.http://www.gumtree.com/p/porsche/porsche-911-996-c...
Granted it's on Gumtree, so the usual to advice to run, don't walk, away may apply, but on paper that's a lot of car for 5 bags of sand...
MontyC said:
TTwiggy said:
mwstewart said:
TTwiggy said:
Is the £5k 911 now a reality?
http://www.gumtree.com/p/porsche/porsche-911-996-c...
Granted it's on Gumtree, so the usual to advice to run, don't walk, away may apply, but on paper that's a lot of car for 5 bags of sand...
Haha. Look at the photos.http://www.gumtree.com/p/porsche/porsche-911-996-c...
Granted it's on Gumtree, so the usual to advice to run, don't walk, away may apply, but on paper that's a lot of car for 5 bags of sand...
MontyC said:
Its a fake ad look at the last picure with email same scams going around autotrader
http://whoissoft.com/btgm.co.ukI don't know any of the details, but I am pretty sure it's possible to swap an LSx engine into a 996, there's a fimr in the states who makes swap kits but I can't find them right now. It might be an interesting alternative to a £6k engine rebuild if you bought a cheap 996 and had problems. (Unlikely to work out any cheaper though!)
was8v said:
The early 3.4 M96 engine is considered less likely to grenade than the later iterations.
The reason the M96 has a "bad rep" at the moment is the under-specced IMS bearing and evidence they start to score bores.
The 3.4 has a more robust IMS bearing than later models (check the IMS litigation in America, Porsche possibly changed it to save a few quid?).
The early 3.4 has a different (ferrous) piston coating to later cars, which have a plastic coating that wears away and scores the bores. This was changed for health and safety reasons in manufacture apparently. Very rare to see a high mileage 3.4 with scored bores.
The 3.4 is not without problems - poor castings led to some d-chunking the cylinders or cracking heads - but these should have shown themselves at this mileage and I may be wrong but would gamble this car has a rebuild for another other problem that could affect any engine not IMS or bore score.
The ad doesn't say it has IMS (bearing) failure or "cylinder liner cracks" in fact the engine doesn't have cylinder liners.....
The ad says the rebuild included upgraded IMS bearing (standard practice) but not why the engine needed a rebuild.
I found this a while ago, shows when the IMS was changed by engine number.The reason the M96 has a "bad rep" at the moment is the under-specced IMS bearing and evidence they start to score bores.
The 3.4 has a more robust IMS bearing than later models (check the IMS litigation in America, Porsche possibly changed it to save a few quid?).
The early 3.4 has a different (ferrous) piston coating to later cars, which have a plastic coating that wears away and scores the bores. This was changed for health and safety reasons in manufacture apparently. Very rare to see a high mileage 3.4 with scored bores.
The 3.4 is not without problems - poor castings led to some d-chunking the cylinders or cracking heads - but these should have shown themselves at this mileage and I may be wrong but would gamble this car has a rebuild for another other problem that could affect any engine not IMS or bore score.
PH journo said:
... an engine rebuild just 10,000 miles ago to address the familiar Intermediate Shaft (IMS) failure and any nasty cylinder liner cracks. ...
Poor journalism! The ad doesn't say it has IMS (bearing) failure or "cylinder liner cracks" in fact the engine doesn't have cylinder liners.....
The ad says the rebuild included upgraded IMS bearing (standard practice) but not why the engine needed a rebuild.
advert said:
had an extensive engine rebuild at 120k miles at a cost of over £6k pounds with upgraded intermediate shaft bearings etc installed
Edited by was8v on Wednesday 14th January 12:01
Engine Number Model Bearing Type
Up to engine # M 651 12851 Boxster 2.7L M96.22 Double Row Bearing
Up to engine # M 671 11237 Boxster S 3.2L M96.21 Double Row Bearing
From engine # M 651 12852 Boxster 2.7L M96.22 Single Row Bearing
From engine # M 651 11238 Boxster S 3.2L M96.21 Single Row Bearing
Not sure on the gearbox. Im always having a peek at 996s and I disregard anything that isn't manual as I just feel its a car that's 'wrong' without a stick.
Other than that, Im all for cheap 996s. They are top of the list of potential moneypits, but then having joined a couple of online OCs it seems that the 996 scary has been a bit overstated.
I've read more than once that specialists say leave the IMS well alone unless its become a problem already. Suspension could be a biggie, but there's lots of them about- cant be that hard to find one with sound suspension. Lots of other little bits to niggle away at you, but it seems to be one of those cars that requires a bit of luck to get a good 'un (like those annoying P38 owners who have inexplicably reliable examples).
£11K sorted sounds like a steal, but £12-13K could buy a well cared for facelift 3.6 manual, which is where I'd look. Don't mind the pre-facelift personally, but the new headlights freshen it up significantly. 3.6 seems to be regarded as slightly less bork-prone than the 3.4, but I'd still fancy a facelift.
996 is not as sound a buy as something like an E46 M3 (tintop, manual please), but then its a 911. In every sense the E46 makes more sense (and I love 'em), but I'd still go 996.
I think they are now rock bottom, or extremely close values-wise. And Im also fond of slightly naff colours (Ocean Jade in particular is 90s-tastic), exterior and interior. Also not too disturbed by the bodykit lots of them seem to have, provided they aren't misbadged. I'd still have a resale coloured manual facelift ofcourse, because real life is a drag.
Other than that, Im all for cheap 996s. They are top of the list of potential moneypits, but then having joined a couple of online OCs it seems that the 996 scary has been a bit overstated.
I've read more than once that specialists say leave the IMS well alone unless its become a problem already. Suspension could be a biggie, but there's lots of them about- cant be that hard to find one with sound suspension. Lots of other little bits to niggle away at you, but it seems to be one of those cars that requires a bit of luck to get a good 'un (like those annoying P38 owners who have inexplicably reliable examples).
£11K sorted sounds like a steal, but £12-13K could buy a well cared for facelift 3.6 manual, which is where I'd look. Don't mind the pre-facelift personally, but the new headlights freshen it up significantly. 3.6 seems to be regarded as slightly less bork-prone than the 3.4, but I'd still fancy a facelift.
996 is not as sound a buy as something like an E46 M3 (tintop, manual please), but then its a 911. In every sense the E46 makes more sense (and I love 'em), but I'd still go 996.
I think they are now rock bottom, or extremely close values-wise. And Im also fond of slightly naff colours (Ocean Jade in particular is 90s-tastic), exterior and interior. Also not too disturbed by the bodykit lots of them seem to have, provided they aren't misbadged. I'd still have a resale coloured manual facelift ofcourse, because real life is a drag.
For me, I’ve always thought these cars have been too cheap to invest in (relative to their costs) but too expensive to write off.
The ownership issues they bring with them at this age point seem too great, whether your put off by engine issues, the expensive part prices, the poor ergonomics of the cabin or more the fact that they are a complete pain in the a$se to work on as a home mechanic (which has got to be an important factor if you’re trying to run one of these on a budget).
I had a look at these when choosing a track car, but in comparison to putting together an E36 M3, the costs were just crazy, especially when you factor in the issues above. Maybe the 911 is the better car, but it’s not that much better.
Maybe as the supply of NA RWD performance cars begins to dry up the market will begin to appreciate them for what they are, but there is too much competition from alternatives at the moment.
The ownership issues they bring with them at this age point seem too great, whether your put off by engine issues, the expensive part prices, the poor ergonomics of the cabin or more the fact that they are a complete pain in the a$se to work on as a home mechanic (which has got to be an important factor if you’re trying to run one of these on a budget).
I had a look at these when choosing a track car, but in comparison to putting together an E36 M3, the costs were just crazy, especially when you factor in the issues above. Maybe the 911 is the better car, but it’s not that much better.
Maybe as the supply of NA RWD performance cars begins to dry up the market will begin to appreciate them for what they are, but there is too much competition from alternatives at the moment.
It does seem an obscenely cheap route to 911 ownership. Go in with your eyes open though. I've driven a few c4s's over the years and love em (nicer aesthetics than the turbo without those nasty rear air intakes and spoiler), although for me the tiptronic totally killed the sense of occasion, especially when the manual is such a sweet box. I also think the face lifted front end looks miles better. Remember thinking that the in the dark the curve of the front end and the later headlights gave a hint of Lamborghini Miura. Not a fan of the earlier cars but you can't argue with that price.
tr7v8 said:
The problem is that as they age you'll end up playing catch up with the things that deteriorate. An M3 will be no different. Over 7 months isn't long enough to judge on. If you'd kept it 3 years or so then it would be a better yardstick. One of our TIPEC club members has been spending on his 99 996, hoses, rads, water pipes, A/C pipes, steering rack etc. But it is a 15 year old 70K car.
But we have members with early 911s & some of them run <1k PA, one has just had clutch & precautionary IMS done but that is the first major work in the 9 years of owning it.
Brakes aren't bad, on non-C4 cars then discs & pads are reasonably priced, not BMW cheap but then again they are more common than 996s.
Just to clarify I owned mine for nearly 3 years, the ref to 7 months was just the last 7 months of ownwership. But we have members with early 911s & some of them run <1k PA, one has just had clutch & precautionary IMS done but that is the first major work in the 9 years of owning it.
Brakes aren't bad, on non-C4 cars then discs & pads are reasonably priced, not BMW cheap but then again they are more common than 996s.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff