RE: Lotus Elise S Cup: Review

[kambites]

RobM77 said:

Mmm. I must admit I had no squeaks or rattles in mine and it all seemed pretty well put together.

I think you were probably lucky. I've seen a number of Elises with perfect interiors but the majority of them have been those with the kinds of owners who bother to fix squeeks and rattles when they develop.

Mind you, my car is over 11 years old now, I guess few cars from any manufacturer have perfect interiors at 11 years old. I've never seen an Elise more than one year old with perfect sill covers except those which have had them replaced recently.

ETA: I've had both roof tensioner cables snap too, and as far as I know Lotus still hasn't improved them.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 18th January 19:20

[RobM77]

SidewaysSi said:

Same here, my S1 does not squeak or rattle. There is some rubbing where the hardtop sits on the rollbar but that's about it.

The fact that the cars are fibreglass will no doubt put off many people used to a metal German car. Of course as we know, the payoff is a car that is up to 500Kg ligher...

I know this sounds unlikely, but I genuinely wonder if people ever stop and think about what chassis is under the fibreglass body on an Elise. Believe it or not I've heard people talk about safety with the Elise on this basis!!

[danp]

RobM77 said:

The chassis is also massively stiffer than most monocoque cars.

Not sure that it is, it was probably very good in 1995!

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=663...

[kambites]

It's stiff for its weight (which is what matters). It's not particularly stiff in the absolute sense.

[bencollins]

Looks great, supercharged lightweight track special with good residuals.
Think i'd swap the cheesey flags for "lotus sport" badges or similar.

[peter450]

The problem with the current range, is they suffer when compared to previous versions

Why buy a brand new 1.6 when you can buy the old toyota 1.8 either 190 or 135 hp versions which have good build quality and better engines, especially in the case of the 190hp version

Why buy the new S/C or Cup when the old run out S/C and Cups had better engines and similar build quality, when you buy a new car you expect it to be newer and better in every sense, yet for all there positives these new cars are a massive step back in the engine departments especially the 1.8

[otolith]

RobM77 said:

I know this sounds unlikely, but I genuinely wonder if people ever stop and think about what chassis is under the fibreglass body on an Elise. Believe it or not I've heard people talk about safety with the Elise on this basis!!

Conversely, I wonder how many people realise that although the 4C's tub is carbon fibre, the bodywork is fibreglass, just like an Elise?

[kambites]

I must admit, I'd assumed the 4C's bodywork was also CFRP rather than GRP.

[james_gt3rs]

RobM77 said:

Mmm. I must admit I had no squeaks or rattles in mine and it all seemed pretty well put together.

Hmm. Maybe it's a mileage thing. My VX220 (2002, 70000 miles) has rattling windows if they are down, squeaky hardtop, rattling undertray at idle. Seats can rock a bit on the runners. Noisy fan. I think the VX220 is closer to S1 than S2 in build quality. I've been in a V6 and that felt very well built TBH.

[otolith]

kambites said:

I must admit, I'd assumed the 4C's bodywork was also CFRP rather than GRP.

Alfa's marketing materials appear to avoid using the word "fibreglass". They prefer to call it "Sheet Moulding Compound"

[selym]

james_gt3rs said:

RobM77 said:

Mmm. I must admit I had no squeaks or rattles in mine and it all seemed pretty well put together.

Hmm. Maybe it's a mileage thing. My VX220 (2002, 70000 miles) has rattling windows if they are down, squeaky hardtop, rattling undertray at idle. Seats can rock a bit on the runners. Noisy fan. I think the VX220 is closer to S1 than S2 in build quality. I've been in a V6 and that felt very well built TBH.

I wasn't going to post because I might have got the old 'VX isn't an Elise' etc. but my VX has done just over 60k and I get a fair old few squeaks and rattles during the winter. I haven't got the time nor inclination to go searching them out when I could be driving the thing, so I live with it. Come the summer, most have gone. Saying that though, the roof is off most of the time so the wind noise may mask them!

I imagine they are pretty easy to locate, but I can't be arsed!

[RobM77]

selym said:

james_gt3rs said:

RobM77 said:

Mmm. I must admit I had no squeaks or rattles in mine and it all seemed pretty well put together.

Hmm. Maybe it's a mileage thing. My VX220 (2002, 70000 miles) has rattling windows if they are down, squeaky hardtop, rattling undertray at idle. Seats can rock a bit on the runners. Noisy fan. I think the VX220 is closer to S1 than S2 in build quality. I've been in a V6 and that felt very well built TBH.

I wasn't going to post because I might have got the old 'VX isn't an Elise' etc. but my VX has done just over 60k and I get a fair old few squeaks and rattles during the winter. I haven't got the time nor inclination to go searching them out when I could be driving the thing, so I live with it. Come the summer, most have gone. Saying that though, the roof is off most of the time so the wind noise may mask them!

I imagine they are pretty easy to locate, but I can't be arsed!

Mine had done about 30k when I sold it if I remember rightly, so it may indeed be a mileage thing. I did have a squeak/creak from the hard top sometimes, but that was solved by using a rubber conditioner/lubricator that I put onto the seals two or three times a year.

[Richard-G]

peter450 said:

The problem with the current range, is they suffer when compared to previous versions

Why buy a brand new 1.6 when you can buy the old toyota 1.8 either 190 or 135 hp versions which have good build quality and better engines, especially in the case of the 190hp version

Why buy the new S/C or Cup when the old run out S/C and Cups had better engines and similar build quality, when you buy a new car you expect it to be newer and better in every sense, yet for all there positives these new cars are a massive step back in the engine departments especially the 1.8

you could argue that with a lot of cars. as mentioned the 1.6 base engine isn't really a step back to the 1.8 base version. you get an extra cog and the same power. the SLIGHT loss in torque is offset by the extra ratio.

ive no experience of the supercharged engines old and new, i can say the supercharged one i drove (a 218 bhp of 2012 vintage) was fuppin quick!

the vvti 190 toyota engine was sweet, however no one is making engines like that anymore due to our nasty government.

[Claudia Skies]

I think we probably all recognise that Lotus needs a completely new car rather then the 286th version of their 1990s Elise. Few serious manufacturers have anything in current production which is even half as old. So it's not surprising there have been a few engines during the model's 20 year life!

[GreenArrow]

Lotus DOES need some new models, but why should it stop making the Elise? Caterham has been building the seven for 42 years and no one moans about that particular model looking out of date. The Elise is just one of those cars that is unique and if Lotus keep updating it to keep it fresh then I say it can continue for a few years yet!

But yes, some new cars as well would be nice, my word, when was the last time you saw an Evora?

[Si_man306]

Approaching a wet apex at 100mph in an elise and it's not already going backwards? Impressive.

I'm afraid I never had that confidence in my S2 Exige, the rear end, if it did go, was far too sudden and that apparently had a fair bit of downforce with the aero kit (I've always questioned the advertised figures on cars like this anyway).

I think £47k is laughable, the new V6 exige is something a bit special I'd admit and does take the game on a bit but £47k would probably get you close to one of those anyway.

As for S1 elises not squeaking...I think the only reason for this must be because you've gone deaf (I certainly did).

[RobM77]

Si_man306 said:

Approaching a wet apex at 100mph in an elise and it's not already going backwards? Impressive.

I'm afraid I never had that confidence in my S2 Exige, the rear end, if it did go, was far too sudden and that apparently had a fair bit of downforce with the aero kit (I've always questioned the advertised figures on cars like this anyway).

They are very sensitive to geo and tyre pressures, but yes, I sort of agree with that. In my Elise I found the actual transition to oversteer fine and the first responses of the car to a lessening of steering lock were fine. That whole zone around the slip angle that gives maximum grip was really controllable and friendly, but once the car got to a certain angle of oversteer, the sort of angle you avoid to get a fast lap, it got nasty quite quickly. Thankfully that sort of angle is reserved for mistakes, hitting oil or deliberately larking around, but if you take the car on track then both are going to happen. My 2-Eleven's exactly the same, if not a little worse because of all the weight over the rear end (it weighs more or less the same as an S1 Elise, but has that huge Toyota engine and supercharger over the back), and exacerbated by the fact that that weight tends to overwork the rear tyres, lessening grip. I've not actually spun either, so they do tend to come back most of the time, but it's a very definite feature that was absent from my Caterham (FE/RWD) or any of the single seaters that I've raced (true ME/RWD, rather than the RE/RWD layout of the Lotus if we're honest about them).

One thing hat simply must be said every time the above is mentioned is how clearly the Elise and its derivatives telegraph what's going on to the driver. The feedback is extraordinary and far better than any other car I've ever driven, racing car or road car.

[braddo]

I understand people's frustrations at yet another Elise derivative, but Lotus really are ahead of their time - look at how many editions McLaren have produced of their cars already.

Yes, another Elise but come on, this is a pretty seriously evolved car from the S1 and S2. As well as the best ride/handling compromise in the world (and the Elise having the best feedback in any new car currently on sale), Lotus also appear to have some of the best stability control programs. Add that to this car's other features like the downforce and AP brakes, and I suspect this Elise would absolutely murder any other Elise on a damp or wet track, while at the same time being a lot more driver friendly.

I guess that in the dry, a well set up Honda Elise or S2 Exige S would be a comparable speed, but I think it's in mixed conditions that this new Cup would really be a level above any previous 4 cylinder Elise/Exige.

Go Lotus!


(Edit: People should also remember that it's only in the UK where used Elises are so readily available and cheap. This new car has global homologation.)

[james_gt3rs]

Si_man306 said:

Approaching a wet apex at 100mph in an elise and it's not already going backwards? Impressive.

I'm afraid I never had that confidence in my S2 Exige, the rear end, if it did go, was far too sudden and that apparently had a fair bit of downforce with the aero kit (I've always questioned the advertised figures on cars like this anyway).

One man's twitchy is another's exciting...