Most 'bang for your buck'?
Discussion
Monkeylegend said:
Dirty Doris, boy could she blow well.
Still available in the North London area, assuming its the same lady- although the effects of 23 years on the game would not render her pleasurable to mine eye...Another vote for something 90s and Jap here. Buy something pre-tuned and your getting someone else's aftermarket expenditure for nearly bugger all. Mk2 MR2s are tough to beat, particularly given their mid-enginedness. An old Impreza will be a cheap rocketship, if you can live with the image.
Im old enough that the big Jags, Lexii and Mercs mentioned appeal more, as they provide both power and comfort.
LS is my #1 due to its rather ludicrous reliability.
FI mk1 MX5 for sheer speed/ scary.
I'll chuck in a big petrol L322 for sheer wafty armchair-on-wheels factor, sub £10K and still a classy thing provided its not had massive wheels and EBay chrome chucked at it.
Petrolhead95 said:
It was rough when I bought it. Interior was tatty from having dogs in it, exterior needed cleaning up with some minor detailing. Mechanically it needed a new head gasket and timing chain, both of which I had a spare of and I can fix that myself so it cost basically nothing. Vauxhall gave her a massive repair bill and I guess she just couldn't be arsed so I offered her £50 and here I am.
It was a bit of a risk, but it has paid off. People laugh at me for running a 1.2 Corsa, but I paid nothing for it and still pay nothing for it apart from insurance. Who's the sucker, eh?
A risk?? It's worth £2000 easily if it hasn't done a million miles!It was a bit of a risk, but it has paid off. People laugh at me for running a 1.2 Corsa, but I paid nothing for it and still pay nothing for it apart from insurance. Who's the sucker, eh?
JagXJR said:
I had a look on Autotrader and could not find any South of 10 grand, perhaps some examples may help?
For that kind of money you could have a twin screw XJR putting out nearly 600 HP and still have room to properly upgrade the brakes to cope.
So most 'bang for your buck' still favours the Jaguar although I am still open to other suggestions?
It is a very interesting question OP, one that I'm sure a few people will be interested in!
(Hands off this one. I've got my eye on it!)For that kind of money you could have a twin screw XJR putting out nearly 600 HP and still have room to properly upgrade the brakes to cope.
So most 'bang for your buck' still favours the Jaguar although I am still open to other suggestions?
It is a very interesting question OP, one that I'm sure a few people will be interested in!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...
S600 - 6.5K
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
S55 AMG - 5.5K
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
S55 AMG - 6.2K
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...
E55K AMG -7k
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-MERCEDES-BENZ-E-CLA...
There's usually more out there. I think an E55 with pulley and Map was available for £6.5k before Christmas.
Anyway, how many 600BHP 4.0 Litre XJR/XKRs are actually out there? I ask because most (if not all) of the cars I can remember having the conversion done where on 4.2 engines.
Also, I think you've got to draw a line when it comes to heavy modifications. If I spent the difference between the S600 I want on my Soarer I could quite comfortably whack on a huge single turbo and make 600BHP at the crank but I'm not going to due to the time and effort involved. Bolt ons like a pulley, exhaust, air filter, etc are plausible mods than could be done by nearly anyone, extensive modifications to the FI system do not come easy or cheap.
Going by the logic of buying X and going down the route of extensive modifications, you will not beat the humble Lexus GS300 for bang for buck.
I can hear the laugher already, but fit a thicker head gasket and a NA-T Kit and they'll make as much power as you want. This recipe has made upwards of 1000BHP in grenade spec (although it lasted far longer at this power level than the builder expected and he had to take to seriously abusing the engine to get it to pop). 600BHP should be a relative cake walk for ~5k, and if you blow up the engine they're available for buttons.
JagXJR said:
Sorry to offend you, calling an XJR an executive barge also wasn't called for and just shows your ignorance.
What on earth would you call them then? A sports car? 
And he's right. The aftermarket parts supply for XJ/XKs is poor when compared to something like a MR2. Short of the kit that AVOS is/was offering, where do you go for an off the shelf kit?
Toaster Pilot said:
A risk?? It's worth £2000 easily if it hasn't done a million miles!
I bought it when it was on 91,000 miles, now it's on 101,000 miles. Full and regular service history should boost the price. Probably worth £1,300 - £1,500 now. Either way, I should make a tidy profit. 279 said:
What on earth would you call them then? A sports car?
And he's right. The aftermarket parts supply for XJ/XKs is poor when compared to something like a MR2. Short of the kit that AVOS is/was offering, where do you go for an off the shelf kit?
What would you call an M3 then, an executive barge? And he's right. The aftermarket parts supply for XJ/XKs is poor when compared to something like a MR2. Short of the kit that AVOS is/was offering, where do you go for an off the shelf kit?
Here are my unbiased thoughts, not just a "my car is best" post.
The Jaguar R cars are so good as standard not many people feel the need to modify them, I never did. Never felt myself thinking "hmm this feels a bit slow, wish I had another 100 bhp". That is why there are not so many modding options. Probably more available in the States where modding is more common. Not going to say more as already said enough about them except they are a very under-rated car, try one before you develop an opinion.
I do like the high performance of the Mercs but not the looks I'm afraid. The SL500 and SLKs I could live with (the SLK can be had for £2-3k), almost bought an SLK but the Alfa came up at a price I could not refuse.
So yes if you have a budget of around £6k the AMGs are a viable option. A bit business man's sports saloon for me as I prefer a car with more soul (not sure why I bought the Subaru then, but it is quirky and with 4WD very surefooted in bad weather). The <late'90s Mercs were the best made, quality seemed to take a dive after then so take enthusiasts reliability claims with a pinch of salt, do your research carefully. Mercedes cars are expensive to repair when they go wrong! And they do go wrong.
For reliable luxury bang you cannot beat a Lexus! Period. The prices are really cheap (but the cars aren't, they are expensive, quality cars when new) and they are so comfy, better than the sporting Jaguar I would say. But the car looks soooo boring and Stateside, it was so obviously designed for the American market. Not to everyone's taste then but a real bargain nonetheless.
BMW M series cars are the leader in their marketplace, sad to say as I don't really like the look or feel of them. Check the condition very carefully as they are a car that is very easy to abuse, thrashed examples are common. As with any car (but especially the faster ones), make sure the servicing has been done correctly and timely. Check the convertible's floor pans as they suffer from flex and can need strengthening. If the chassis is damaged (there is lots of stress on an M3 convertible chassis as they handle so well) it will be very costly to repair! Avoid M badged editions of normal cars, they are not a true M and just badge engineering. I had a 530D M sport estate given as a loan car, being told is was comparable to the XJR, and I hated it. Was spoilt by the XJ, may have liked it more if I did not know better. Expected better than around 10 MPG more than the XJ as well given that it was diesel.
Saab, yes good cars although not as fast as the XJR. I'd have one but the boss does not like the look of the car. Same for Volvo T5. Damn these women with their "it must look nice" outlook! Again only as reliable as the servicing and hammer that they are given so check condition carefully, blown turbos and head gaskets are not unknown.
If you can't afford £2k (and there may be some who can't) the Rover 620 is a fine car, if not exactly exciting.
Lots of cheap Japanese options, Scoobies, Evos, MR2 and Supra. most of these will have been thrashed as you have to do to extract the performance, especially with 4 cylinder cars. Inspect them carefully as they are expensive to repair and blown engines and boxes are more common than the supporters would have you believe.
Civic and Integra type R (older models actually quicker than the newer ones unbelievably) a good choice but the timing belt is costly to replace on the Civic, one garage telling me it was an "engine out" job??? Would get one with this done personally.
Would avoid the imports personally as can be harder to get parts, insurance is sometimes higher and can be difficult to sell on as a result. No doubt the fanatics will disagree (as is their right).
Bought an Alfa GTV Spider for £1000, more spent on car maintenance than the car cost new so well looked after. With 8 seconds to 60 and a glorious howl from the 2 litre twin spark engine (even better with the hood down), great handling and the chance of becoming a future classic this makes good motoring for little bucks. Galvanised steel chassis and plastic panels mean rust is less of a problem, but not known as the most reliable car in the world. Expect to have to spend money on this one, can be a demanding mistress!
For hot hatches Golf and Corrado are worth a look, as are hot versions of Clio and Focus. I really rate the Ford Focus (leader of its class for a good few years) for comfort reliability and cost, but be aware Ford did make cars cheaply (look at the Mustang for example) and they wont be as technically advanced as the Subaru and Evo competition. Bang for buck worthy.
That brings me to the tricky subject of Yank muscle. Great in a straight line but most of them do not corner at all well compared to Japanese and European cars. Developed for long straight roads, this is where they work best. Big, thirsty ......... there is a lot of negatives. But they are cheap, rare and if you avoid the live axle variants some of them have passable handling as long as you don't expect too much. Because they are cheaply built, quality is not the best, you get what you pay for generally in the new car world.
The question is a difficult one to answer more specifically as there are not enough parameters given such as budget, type of car ect. This is why extremes from a £50 Corsa to brand new Focus ST suggestions. Hope someone will find this useful however
JagXJR said:
What would you call an M3 then, an executive barge?
You what? A M3 is a least one class down from a XJR, arguably two given XJs are traditionally compared to the likes of 7 Series and S-Class in the luxury car sector being loaded to the gills with wood, leather, and the like. And do you know what people colloquially refer to cars in the luxury car sector? That's right, Barges 
. JagXJR said:
The Jaguar R cars are so good as standard not many people feel the need to modify them, I never did. Never felt myself thinking "hmm this feels a bit slow, wish I had another 100 bhp". That is why there are not so many modding options. Probably more available in the States where modding is more common. Not going to say more as already said enough about them except they are a very under-rated car, try one before you develop an opinion.
There aren't any more options stateside, which is sort of the point. The americans are usually very good at highlighting the best European bang for buck cars, given the fact that they live in a place where their equivalent of Halfords sells 600BHP crate motors, and yet there is neigh on nothing for them or any real modifying community. With the XJ/XK engine you've got a handful of blokes running a twin screw kit, almost always developed by the same chap that costs at least twice what the car is worth before fitting.As for trying one, I've driven plenty of Jaguars thanks. They are nice cars and provide plenty 'bang for your buck' for £2k-£3k if you can get a good one, but the difference between in performance a XJR and say a XFR or late supercharged 5.0 XJ is profound. Its the difference between 'Quick' and 'Fast' that I mentioned earlier. Of course those cars cost much more, but as I've detailed, there are ways to get XFR rivalling performance for not much more than a good XJR, somewhat blunting the ultimate bang for buck discussion.
JagXJR said:
Here are my unbiased thoughts, not just a "my car is best" post.
Sorry, but 'My car is best' is the general attitude I've gotten from all of your posts in this thread.279 said:
JagXJR said:
What would you call an M3 then, an executive barge?
You what? A M3 is a least one class down from a XJR, arguably two given XJs are traditionally compared to the likes of 7 Series and S-Class in the luxury car sector being loaded to the gills with wood, leather, and the like. And do you know what people colloquially refer to cars in the luxury car sector? That's right, Barges . JagXJR said:
The Jaguar R cars are so good as standard not many people feel the need to modify them, I never did. Never felt myself thinking "hmm this feels a bit slow, wish I had another 100 bhp". That is why there are not so many modding options. Probably more available in the States where modding is more common. Not going to say more as already said enough about them except they are a very under-rated car, try one before you develop an opinion.
There aren't any more options stateside, which is sort of the point. The americans are usually very good at highlighting the best European bang for buck cars, given the fact that they live in a place where their equivalent of Halfords sells 600BHP crate motors, and yet there is neigh on nothing for them or any real modifying community. With the XJ/XK engine you've got a handful of blokes running a twin screw kit, almost always developed by the same chap that costs at least twice what the car is worth before fitting.As for trying one, I've driven plenty of Jaguars thanks. They are nice cars and provide plenty 'bang for your buck' for £2k-£3k if you can get a good one, but the difference between in performance a XJR and say a XFR or late supercharged 5.0 XJ is profound. Its the difference between 'Quick' and 'Fast' that I mentioned earlier. Of course those cars cost much more, but as I've detailed, there are ways to get XFR rivalling performance for not much more than a good XJR, somewhat blunting the ultimate bang for buck discussion.
JagXJR said:
Here are my unbiased thoughts, not just a "my car is best" post.
Sorry, but 'My car is best' is the general attitude I've gotten from all of your posts in this thread.279 said:
Sorry, but 'My car is best' is the general attitude I've gotten from all of your posts in this thread.
How so? I don't own an XJR. The Alfa I mentioned is a cheap car but hardly qualifies as most bang per buck.ETA
279 said:
You what? A M3 is a least one class down from a XJR, arguably two given XJs are traditionally compared to the likes of 7 Series and S-Class in the luxury car sector being loaded to the gills with wood, leather, and the like. And do you know what people colloquially refer to cars in the luxury car sector? That's right, Barges .
There aren't any more options stateside, ...................
With the XJ/XK engine you've got a handful of blokes running a twin screw kit, almost always developed by the same chap that costs at least twice what the car is worth before fitting.
As for trying one, I've driven plenty of Jaguars thanks. They are nice cars and provide plenty 'bang for your buck' for £2k-£3k if you can get a good one, but the difference between in performance a XJR and say a XFR or late supercharged 5.0 XJ is profound. Its the difference between 'Quick' and 'Fast' that I mentioned earlier. Of course those cars cost much more, but as I've detailed, there are ways to get XFR rivalling performance for not much more than a good XJR .........
The M3 is a direct rival to the XJR (in the second hand market at least) given their almost identical performance and 4 door saloon layout. That paragraph just highlights you have not driven one or both of them. I would not start making comments about how your beloved AMG Mercedes drives without driving one first.. There aren't any more options stateside, ...................
With the XJ/XK engine you've got a handful of blokes running a twin screw kit, almost always developed by the same chap that costs at least twice what the car is worth before fitting.
As for trying one, I've driven plenty of Jaguars thanks. They are nice cars and provide plenty 'bang for your buck' for £2k-£3k if you can get a good one, but the difference between in performance a XJR and say a XFR or late supercharged 5.0 XJ is profound. Its the difference between 'Quick' and 'Fast' that I mentioned earlier. Of course those cars cost much more, but as I've detailed, there are ways to get XFR rivalling performance for not much more than a good XJR .........
As I said, (sigh) not many owners feel the need to mod the R models as they are fine as they are. Therefore the options are going to be limited due to the demand or lack of.
The question is "most bang per buck" the XJR is at the £2-3 grand price range exactly that. as is the MR2 Turbo as MikeyMike said. Both completely different cars so you cannot say which is best without knowing the criteria that is required from them.
The Mercedes-Benz S Class S55 that you kindly linked to looks a nice car, as is the 600 and if the budget is £5-7k is indeed a worthy contender. But at double the price of the XJR is it worth paying £3K more for 100 BHP is not the issue, most bang for buck is the question. Does paying the extra qualify? I don't consider it is, otherwise I would have mentioned the 4.2 and 5 litre models.
Edited by JagXJR on Sunday 18th January 15:58
Sorry but I'm not going to waste anymore time debating with someone who thinks for a moment than a xjr is a direct competitor to a BMW m3 because decades of depreiation have made them vaguely the same price. With that comment you have pretty much lost all of your wavering credibility.
All hail the mighty jaguar xjr. By far the most bang for buck you can get... Despite it not really being that fast by modern standards and there being plenty of cars that can match the performance. And don't forget if you spend 7k+ fitted you might be able to make 600bhp if the only bloke in the world that has made a kit decides to sell you one!
.
All hail the mighty jaguar xjr. By far the most bang for buck you can get... Despite it not really being that fast by modern standards and there being plenty of cars that can match the performance. And don't forget if you spend 7k+ fitted you might be able to make 600bhp if the only bloke in the world that has made a kit decides to sell you one!
.Edited by 279 on Sunday 18th January 16:36
100% MR2 Turbo get one for £3 - £4k even with the stock 250hp they are bloody quick. Spend a few quid can get 400hp and then will demolish pretty much anything on the road.
Stock one probably as quick as an XJR maybe tad faster but tune it to 300hp which is quite cheap and it would demolish one in a straight line to be honest.
Stock one probably as quick as an XJR maybe tad faster but tune it to 300hp which is quite cheap and it would demolish one in a straight line to be honest.
279 said:
Sorry but I'm not going to waste anymore time debating with someone who thinks for a moment than a xjr is a direct competitor to a BMW m3 because decades of depreiation have made them vaguely the same price. With that comment you have pretty much lost all of your wavering credibility.
All hail the mighty jaguar xjr. By far the most bang for buck you can get... Despite it not really being that fast by modern standards and there being plenty of cars that can match the performance. And don't forget if you spend 7k+ fitted you might be able to make 600bhp if the only bloke in the world that has made a kit decides to sell you one!.
Don't be ridiculous! They are the same price more or less in the second hand market (they are a little bit more expensive than the XJR on average, 4 on Autotrader at £3-4K), same performance, both 5 seater RWD sports saloons, why would you not? How do you short list cars if not on price, performance and type of vehicle?All hail the mighty jaguar xjr. By far the most bang for buck you can get... Despite it not really being that fast by modern standards and there being plenty of cars that can match the performance. And don't forget if you spend 7k+ fitted you might be able to make 600bhp if the only bloke in the world that has made a kit decides to sell you one!
.Edited by 279 on Sunday 18th January 16:36
Just because I have pointed out you don't seem to know what you are talking about, having not driven them you come back with this? Pathetic!
And not the "by far the most bang for buck you can get", since I stated the MR2 turbo was also a contender. As posted in the thread.
"Despite it not really being that fast by modern standards and there being plenty of cars that can match the performance" - what about the "for buck" part of "best bang for buck"? Have you even bothered to read any of this before you had a pop?
If money is no object then yes the AMG mercs would be great! Along with the Bugatti Veyron .............................. ect
I know I said I wouldn't reply, but since you've said it for the 3rd time I feel obligated to reply.
Where are you getting the idea that I haven't driven a xjr from? I've driven plenty of XJRs of all vintages. Its one of the perks of being a Jaguar technician for neigh on two years. I've also driven xfr and xj 5.0s and spent the first three years of my career riding as a passenger in 550bhp+ cars daily and currently own a car that will match a xjr all day long in terms of performance, so I think I'm in a good position to say that in the grand scheme of the motoring world a old xjr doesn't provide that much of a bang and they really aren't THAT impressive.
Where are you getting the idea that I haven't driven a xjr from? I've driven plenty of XJRs of all vintages. Its one of the perks of being a Jaguar technician for neigh on two years. I've also driven xfr and xj 5.0s and spent the first three years of my career riding as a passenger in 550bhp+ cars daily and currently own a car that will match a xjr all day long in terms of performance, so I think I'm in a good position to say that in the grand scheme of the motoring world a old xjr doesn't provide that much of a bang and they really aren't THAT impressive.
Edited by 279 on Sunday 18th January 19:23
Edited by 279 on Sunday 18th January 19:24
IF the question was "most bang?" I would fully agree with you! But it's not!
Will repeat again as despite being a "Jaguar technician" you don't seem to read too well. "Most bang for your buck" Mercedes twice the price. Not twice the horsepower.
You're the technician, do the maths. HP per £.
If around 400 BHP wasn't THAT impressive you would see more people tuning them, no? You see the logic?
Some people will argue 'til the cows come home, look at the cows, and carry on .............................. Yawn zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Fine, if you have £6.5k to spend the best car in the world to buy is an AMG Mercedes!
Will repeat again as despite being a "Jaguar technician" you don't seem to read too well. "Most bang for your buck" Mercedes twice the price. Not twice the horsepower.
You're the technician, do the maths. HP per £.
If around 400 BHP wasn't THAT impressive you would see more people tuning them, no? You see the logic?
Some people will argue 'til the cows come home, look at the cows, and carry on .............................. Yawn zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Fine, if you have £6.5k to spend the best car in the world to buy is an AMG Mercedes!
JagXJR said:
IF the question was "most bang?" I would fully agree with you! But it's not!
Will repeat again as despite being a "Jaguar technician" you don't seem to read too well. "Most bang for your buck" Mercedes twice the price. Not twice the horsepower.
You're the technician, do the maths. HP per £.
If around 400 BHP wasn't THAT impressive you would see more people tuning them, no? You see the logic?
Some people will argue 'til the cows come home, look at the cows, and carry on .............................. Yawn zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Fine, if you have £6.5k to spend the best car in the world to buy is an AMG Mercedes!
When people ask for the most bang for their buck they don't literally mean BHP/£ as the true answer to that would bore you to tears. You'd need an extremely powerful £3000 car to match the bhp/£ of a £200 130bhp Ford Mondeo.Will repeat again as despite being a "Jaguar technician" you don't seem to read too well. "Most bang for your buck" Mercedes twice the price. Not twice the horsepower.
You're the technician, do the maths. HP per £.
If around 400 BHP wasn't THAT impressive you would see more people tuning them, no? You see the logic?
Some people will argue 'til the cows come home, look at the cows, and carry on .............................. Yawn zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Fine, if you have £6.5k to spend the best car in the world to buy is an AMG Mercedes!
They usually mean something fast and fun for as little as possible...just accept that a big old XJR wouldn't be many people's answer and move on.
JagXJR said:
If people didn't keep directly quoting me perhaps I could!
Surprised nobody has mentioned the Audi RS, 3 on motors.com between 6K and 10K 0-60 less than 5 seconds. Couple of BMW 650s on there too with sub 5 second times.
At just under 10K how about a TVR Chimaera 4.0 2-Door?
I reckon my £3750 car would out-accelerate all of themSurprised nobody has mentioned the Audi RS, 3 on motors.com between 6K and 10K 0-60 less than 5 seconds. Couple of BMW 650s on there too with sub 5 second times.
At just under 10K how about a TVR Chimaera 4.0 2-Door?
This is kind of a silly question though, we need an actual budget and a definition of "bang". Most fun car for shed money has got to be an MX5. Fastest accelerating car for shed money is probably something japanese and turbocharged. Fastest round a track for your money is probably some kind of kitcar or if not road legal, a cheap single seater. If we're just talking "good value" sportscars then there are loads of possibilities.
Edited by T0MMY on Friday 23 January 11:19
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