The Best ///M/Barge/General Rant/Look at this/O/T (Vol XVII)
Discussion
Cheburator mk2 said:
Pennyroyal Tea said:
This is just getting stupid now. A Cooking 996 Carrera is an infinitely better steer than the 968, and half the price.
No it is not...How do I know - last time I opened the garage door at home I could see a 1150kg 320bhp/370ft lbs 944 Turbo race car and a 996.1 GT3 CS K400. The 944 never fails to put a silly grin on my face... So does the GT3... One is not infinitely better than the other. They are so different. In fact, the only common things are the badge and that they are BOTH amazing analogue cars, the likes of which will never be made again by any car manufacturer.
Ergo, my point being that (if we're being specific), the 996 C2 offers fabulous steering, beautiful damping, a wonderfully charismatic engine and room for four people (notwithstanding the looks which I shall deliberately leave out of the comparison for obvious reasons). The 968 on the other hand has better steering, but is let down by its frankly industrial engine, lack of shove and damping that is great, but perhaps not quite as fit for the road as a C2.
Then when you look at the price differential, it's difficult to see the value in the 968, other than its rarity as a collectable model; which brings me back to the 'silly' argument of paying huge amounts of money for something simply #becauserarity.
So, to go back to your example, there's no doubting your two cars offer similarly fantastic driving experiences (even though neither car was the subject of this particular discussion and ignoring that one of them has been prepped for racing), but is one worth twice the asking price of the other? Or to be more specific, is the older, slower less technically advanced car worth twice the price of the other?*
Don't get me wrong, if someone wants to pay a huge sum for a car purely on merit of its perceived desirability and or rarity, then don't let me stop you. Only, that wasn't the point of your argument.
All, in my humble subjective opinion, of course.
*I humbly request that we don't open a can of worms about the desirability/value of classic cars relative to their newer siblings
olly22n said:
Gruber said:
Patrick Bateman said:
Gruber said:
Ummm... Does the 997 Carrera S (3.8) suffer the bore wear issues of the 996? If so, does this make it a bad idea to buy one?
It's the most common of the lot is it not? In Gen 1 form anyway.How common is "most common"?
3.6 the safer and better option according to some
I'm going to end up buying another M3 at this rate.
Gruber said:
olly22n said:
Gruber said:
Patrick Bateman said:
Gruber said:
Ummm... Does the 997 Carrera S (3.8) suffer the bore wear issues of the 996? If so, does this make it a bad idea to buy one?
It's the most common of the lot is it not? In Gen 1 form anyway.How common is "most common"?
3.6 the safer and better option according to some
I'm going to end up buying another M3 at this rate.
Remember, the failure rate isn't that high on the <Gen II cars and somewhat counter-intuitively, it seems you're statistically safer with a higher mileage car than a low mileage garage queen.
And then, from actual personal experience (as opposed to the internetz rumour mill of death), two M96 and two M97-engined cars (all pre DFI) have passed through the PT family and not one of them did anything other than blow a light bulb.
And as you may recall, my Gen I 997 C2S was flogged to death all over Europe and never missed a beat. Last time I checked, its new owner of two and a half years was also still really enjoying it with no major issues to report.
Pennyroyal Tea said:
Don't. Buy a Gen II (no such imploding problems) or buy a Gen I with a bork fund on the side.
It looks like I need a rather bigger budget for a Gen II.Gen I plus bork fund would be fine except that the size of the pot and the likelihood of calling on it seems to be growing with every word I read. I can't help feeling that - for me at least - the wait for the seemingly inevitable (according to the internets) would rather take the edge off the ownership experience.
Pal of mine had IMS failure on his 997.1 shortly after purchase at 60k miles. I put him onto Hartech and bore score was discovered too. Had both sorted. The bill began with a ten. He was philosophical, wants to keep the car for 10 years so sees the rebuild as a grand a year upkeep, which is a healthy outlook IMO.
Hartech rebuilt cars seem to carry a bit of a premium, so some of the money would be seen again at resale time. Softens the blow a bit.
Hartech rebuilt cars seem to carry a bit of a premium, so some of the money would be seen again at resale time. Softens the blow a bit.
Dads 996 C4S needed 12k at Hartech after 40k miles.
He did go the whole hog and had preventative stuff done as well (closing the block).
£3.5 just to pull the engine and £6k is a bare minimum normally.
Needless to say I bought an M3. A £1k Vanos rebuild is peanuts in comparison!
He did go the whole hog and had preventative stuff done as well (closing the block).
£3.5 just to pull the engine and £6k is a bare minimum normally.
Needless to say I bought an M3. A £1k Vanos rebuild is peanuts in comparison!
Edited by _Batty_ on Saturday 13th February 19:46
_Batty_ said:
Dads 996 C4S needed 12k at Hartech after 40k miles.
He did go the whole hog and had preventative stuff done as well (closing the block).
£3.5 just to pull the engine and £6k is a bare minimum normally.
Needless to say I bought an M3. A £1k Vanos rebuild is peanuts in comparison!
...and this is what I keep coming back to. A nice e46 will give me all the go, most of the fun and be more practical whilst also costing half as much to buy in the first place and needing a much smaller slush fund.He did go the whole hog and had preventative stuff done as well (closing the block).
£3.5 just to pull the engine and £6k is a bare minimum normally.
Needless to say I bought an M3. A £1k Vanos rebuild is peanuts in comparison!
Edited by _Batty_ on Saturday 13th February 19:46
But... I've never owned a Porsche and Mrs G says she's up for it (ahem).
Gruber said:
_Batty_ said:
Dads 996 C4S needed 12k at Hartech after 40k miles.
He did go the whole hog and had preventative stuff done as well (closing the block).
£3.5 just to pull the engine and £6k is a bare minimum normally.
Needless to say I bought an M3. A £1k Vanos rebuild is peanuts in comparison!
...and this is what I keep coming back to. A nice e46 will give me all the go, most of the fun and be more practical whilst also costing half as much to buy in the first place and needing a much smaller slush fund.He did go the whole hog and had preventative stuff done as well (closing the block).
£3.5 just to pull the engine and £6k is a bare minimum normally.
Needless to say I bought an M3. A £1k Vanos rebuild is peanuts in comparison!
Edited by _Batty_ on Saturday 13th February 19:46
But... I've never owned a Porsche and Mrs G says she's up for it (ahem).
But where on earth is the fun in that argument?
Car looks ace btw jezza
Is this one Mr. Lime?
TheRocket said:
Elan looks lovely, never driven one but I know Gordon Murray has always raved about them and he knows a thing or two. Assume has great steering feel and just flows down a road, is there any modern comparison ?
Sounds obvious and corny I know but a Mk1 MX5 really is oh so close and you can feel the inspiration. Still not asgood as an Elan though imo.I love them.
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