The Best ///M/Barge/General Rant/Look at this/O/T (Vol XVII)
Discussion
Leins said:
Fantastic pic moose! Those 991.2s are a great looking car
Amen That one has gorgeous aesthetic in terms of colour scheme as well. Interior was nice too - chocolate leather. Unbelievable pace / composure / comfort - bullseye on that particular Venn diagram. Ultimate all-purpose DD imo.
SidewaysSi said:
Didn't you previously have a 964? What do you think of the Elise in comparison? And out of interest, what suspension are you running?
Yes, I had a 964 C2 manual coupe for a while. Lovely car but couldn't be more different to the Elise. The Elise is a featherweight mid-engined open top go kart. The 964 is classic 90s Porsche, heavy control weights, nice analogue feel, reasonably quick (probably similar to the Elise) classic looks. The elise is running Nitron NTR+ adjustable dampers and 600/400 springs.
joesnow said:
Sounds about right for Route Napoleon.
It's feels a little strange but I don't miss mine. However, I think they are great, great cars and one of the very best out there as a classic that works in the modern day.
On continental trips I've had just the one in the GT3 so far, to Le Mans last year.
However, this summer I'll be taking it on holiday in Burgundy for a couple of weeks. Can't wait.
Today I got to drive the latest M3, M2 and a 640d- would have gone for the i8 too if I had more time and no headache. Totally unexpected as I only found out late last night the local dealer was doing an open test drive day at the Old Course Hotel in St. Andrews.
A good opportunity for someone like myself as I've never been anywhere near such free events and don't get to sample different cars willy nilly, let alone the latest high performance ones. Maybe not the best location for roads and traffic and only 15/20 mins behind the wheel of each but it'd be rude to complain too much.
I've never felt like such a luddite with cars (I'm 27 and fairly computer savvy), so many options and computer settings, 90% nonsense as far as I can tell, very much prefer the 'get in and drive it' take of older cars and physical buttons for the odd thing. It's no doubt better once you have your favourite settings stored in M1/M2 etc. and I suppose living with one you'd get a better feel but I'm still sceptical as how necessary it all is. Obviously the buyers like it.
Both the M2 and M3 were DCT (I wouldn't trust the public to not ruin a manual one either in fairness). This is the first time I've ever driven anything like them, 5 speed slush boxes is all I've sampled before. I was curious as to what I'd think having read of people trying such things then being sure they would never want another manual car. I've always believed, despite never trying DCT, I'd always miss a manual. Just like a computer game I've heard, they're not wrong. I hadn't realised just how much they would take from the driving experience. I can unequivocally say, as obviously brilliant as the gearboxes are, it's only strengthened my view on manual gearboxes, especially for something 'M'.
That being said, they do sound decent enough although the M3's sound doesn't relate with the price tag for me, pretty sure the M2 sounded better. M2 did feel very chuckable, I can imagine that with a manual gearbox (luddite!) being excellent fun. Having never driven any turbocharged petrol I honestly wouldn't have been able to tell if I didn't already know. Not sure if a manual would be any different and the DCT ratios are optimised to hide any deficiencies? The engines did feel worth revving out to the ~7k as well, given the complaints on lack of zing as it were, I'd be curious to see just how the S85 V10 and S65 V8 feel.
A couple of quirks I noticed, the centre console on both cars really encroached on my left leg which I found quite odd, anyone else noticed that? The brakes on the M2 were exceptionally grabby. All or nothing. Is that how they are or is a few hundred miles on the car the reason? Definitely not what I was expecting, never felt another BMW like it. Modern BMW steering wheels are also too thick.
640d is a mightily impressive machine too, can see the appeal in that as a daily driver for sure. Effortless surge and a lovely place to sit, by far and away the most expensive/quality feel to it of the three. I think for the money, I'd feel a bit miffed sitting in the M2 and M3 in comparison. Criminal rear leg room for the size of car though!
What I was quite pleased with though, come the end of the day when I hopped back in my M5, I didn't feel short changed. I don't have that longing for the latest and greatest. I suppose that's compliment enough to the old bus. Oh how that will be a bd to replace.
A good opportunity for someone like myself as I've never been anywhere near such free events and don't get to sample different cars willy nilly, let alone the latest high performance ones. Maybe not the best location for roads and traffic and only 15/20 mins behind the wheel of each but it'd be rude to complain too much.
I've never felt like such a luddite with cars (I'm 27 and fairly computer savvy), so many options and computer settings, 90% nonsense as far as I can tell, very much prefer the 'get in and drive it' take of older cars and physical buttons for the odd thing. It's no doubt better once you have your favourite settings stored in M1/M2 etc. and I suppose living with one you'd get a better feel but I'm still sceptical as how necessary it all is. Obviously the buyers like it.
Both the M2 and M3 were DCT (I wouldn't trust the public to not ruin a manual one either in fairness). This is the first time I've ever driven anything like them, 5 speed slush boxes is all I've sampled before. I was curious as to what I'd think having read of people trying such things then being sure they would never want another manual car. I've always believed, despite never trying DCT, I'd always miss a manual. Just like a computer game I've heard, they're not wrong. I hadn't realised just how much they would take from the driving experience. I can unequivocally say, as obviously brilliant as the gearboxes are, it's only strengthened my view on manual gearboxes, especially for something 'M'.
That being said, they do sound decent enough although the M3's sound doesn't relate with the price tag for me, pretty sure the M2 sounded better. M2 did feel very chuckable, I can imagine that with a manual gearbox (luddite!) being excellent fun. Having never driven any turbocharged petrol I honestly wouldn't have been able to tell if I didn't already know. Not sure if a manual would be any different and the DCT ratios are optimised to hide any deficiencies? The engines did feel worth revving out to the ~7k as well, given the complaints on lack of zing as it were, I'd be curious to see just how the S85 V10 and S65 V8 feel.
A couple of quirks I noticed, the centre console on both cars really encroached on my left leg which I found quite odd, anyone else noticed that? The brakes on the M2 were exceptionally grabby. All or nothing. Is that how they are or is a few hundred miles on the car the reason? Definitely not what I was expecting, never felt another BMW like it. Modern BMW steering wheels are also too thick.
640d is a mightily impressive machine too, can see the appeal in that as a daily driver for sure. Effortless surge and a lovely place to sit, by far and away the most expensive/quality feel to it of the three. I think for the money, I'd feel a bit miffed sitting in the M2 and M3 in comparison. Criminal rear leg room for the size of car though!
What I was quite pleased with though, come the end of the day when I hopped back in my M5, I didn't feel short changed. I don't have that longing for the latest and greatest. I suppose that's compliment enough to the old bus. Oh how that will be a bd to replace.
Edited by Patrick Bateman on Saturday 28th May 22:01
All the talk of GT cars for a cross European blat is making wish I had one for my journey home tomorrow, my old E39 M5 would be perfect.
If you've not been Nurburgring 24 hours it is worth a look, proper mix of latest Gt3 cars, with the odd Manta, older M3's and various pork thrown in. Word of warning though the 'weather' changes quick, massive hailstorm about 1 hour in saw cars sliding off like they'd suddenly arrived in thousand lakes rally but on slicks. Race stopped for 2 hours then back in the wet which I must say made it much more fun. Anyway couple of paddock pics below, sadly didn't see much 'normal' interesting road stuff but saw Germany latest Caterham competitor, yes they are road legal...
If you've not been Nurburgring 24 hours it is worth a look, proper mix of latest Gt3 cars, with the odd Manta, older M3's and various pork thrown in. Word of warning though the 'weather' changes quick, massive hailstorm about 1 hour in saw cars sliding off like they'd suddenly arrived in thousand lakes rally but on slicks. Race stopped for 2 hours then back in the wet which I must say made it much more fun. Anyway couple of paddock pics below, sadly didn't see much 'normal' interesting road stuff but saw Germany latest Caterham competitor, yes they are road legal...
catching up on the last few days threadage, top stuff.
my choice for a fantasy SoF adventure is what i used to term a 'wallflower' ferrari. like the 250gte, languished unloved throughout the 90s and early 00s until prices took an acute swing upwards. i am sure i have 15-16yr old copies of c&sc where these were sub six figures. last one through sotherbys was $1.7m!
bit of a mouthful for the full title: ferrari 250 gt pininfarina series 2 cabriolet. grigio metallizato over bordeaux leather if i'm being particular. passenger seat to be occupied by a hepburn lookalike and the boot to contain a suitcase which would do hunter s thompson proud
my choice for a fantasy SoF adventure is what i used to term a 'wallflower' ferrari. like the 250gte, languished unloved throughout the 90s and early 00s until prices took an acute swing upwards. i am sure i have 15-16yr old copies of c&sc where these were sub six figures. last one through sotherbys was $1.7m!
bit of a mouthful for the full title: ferrari 250 gt pininfarina series 2 cabriolet. grigio metallizato over bordeaux leather if i'm being particular. passenger seat to be occupied by a hepburn lookalike and the boot to contain a suitcase which would do hunter s thompson proud
I think a lot of cars are now being designed by the worst possible people: The marketing department, who ask their customers what they want. They simply want "more" of everything, despite the consequences. More power, more size, more brakes, more convenience, more toys, more anything they can list.
What you really want is a car designed by one man with a vision who knows what makes it ideal from the outset.
What you really want is a car designed by one man with a vision who knows what makes it ideal from the outset.
barchetta_boy said:
SidewaysSi said:
Didn't you previously have a 964? What do you think of the Elise in comparison? And out of interest, what suspension are you running?
Yes, I had a 964 C2 manual coupe for a while. Lovely car but couldn't be more different to the Elise. The Elise is a featherweight mid-engined open top go kart. The 964 is classic 90s Porsche, heavy control weights, nice analogue feel, reasonably quick (probably similar to the Elise) classic looks. The elise is running Nitron NTR+ adjustable dampers and 600/400 springs.
Actually I may have misremembered my spring rates and yours look familiar, so I may have the same. Just dug out the paperwork and mine are 400/550.
I found the car way too stiff on the road when I got it but simply dialled the shocks back to full soft via the adjusters. You can do this without removing the wheels. At full soft it is fine on the road - not as compliant as standard but fine for general hooning about. Try that first.
I found the car way too stiff on the road when I got it but simply dialled the shocks back to full soft via the adjusters. You can do this without removing the wheels. At full soft it is fine on the road - not as compliant as standard but fine for general hooning about. Try that first.
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