The Best ///M/Barge/General Rant/Look at this/O/T (Vol XVII)
Discussion
rejn said:
Oh and this beauty was nonchalantly parked up on Berkeley Square yesterday afternoon.
My kids were asking why daddy was taking a photo of a car in the street...
Oh and I spotted a plate I've been wondering about for years: OO 7. On a white silver spirit.
Well that is super cool.My kids were asking why daddy was taking a photo of a car in the street...
Oh and I spotted a plate I've been wondering about for years: OO 7. On a white silver spirit.
On the subject of nice 911s, at FoS I saw and read the little spiel notice for an original 911R. That's a rather special car isn't it?
Looking at the new one next to it, for a stripped out, lightest 911 possible, it looked quite well appointed inside (carbon fibre everything, magnesium roof and pull strap handles aside). Seats looked really good though.
Was going to post in the comments thread on the article. Looks much better (not hard!) than the Gen 1 Panam but still not as good as the shooting brake concept.
Article was a bit gushy for my taste, even if the interior looks lovely and it's likely to drive better than anything else that size / segment by a country mile - I agree that BMW / Merc / Audi have been doing the high-end saloon gig for long enough not to be automatically sh*tting themselves, but for keen pilots with the wedge required I'd not be surprised if they opt for this as the likely "ultimate" in terms of the 4 seater luxury / dynamism / tech venn diagram. Shame Maser isn't more convincing, as I don't really see obvious competition for this aside from the usual suspects (BMW 6 Gran Coupe / Merc CLS AMG etc.).
As mentioned in the other thread, the depreciation will be utterly hideous. But I'm not in the market for one and I don't get overly excited by purely financial arguments anyway. If you want something and can afford it, then buy!
Article was a bit gushy for my taste, even if the interior looks lovely and it's likely to drive better than anything else that size / segment by a country mile - I agree that BMW / Merc / Audi have been doing the high-end saloon gig for long enough not to be automatically sh*tting themselves, but for keen pilots with the wedge required I'd not be surprised if they opt for this as the likely "ultimate" in terms of the 4 seater luxury / dynamism / tech venn diagram. Shame Maser isn't more convincing, as I don't really see obvious competition for this aside from the usual suspects (BMW 6 Gran Coupe / Merc CLS AMG etc.).
As mentioned in the other thread, the depreciation will be utterly hideous. But I'm not in the market for one and I don't get overly excited by purely financial arguments anyway. If you want something and can afford it, then buy!
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Diesel Meister said:
Was going to post in the comments thread on the article. Looks much better (not hard!) than the Gen 1 Panam but still not as good as the shooting brake concept.
Article was a bit gushy for my taste, even if the interior looks lovely and it's likely to drive better than anything else that size / segment by a country mile - I agree that BMW / Merc / Audi have been doing the high-end saloon gig for long enough not to be automatically sh*tting themselves, but for keen pilots with the wedge required I'd not be surprised if they opt for this as the likely "ultimate" in terms of the 4 seater luxury / dynamism / tech venn diagram. Shame Maser isn't more convincing, as I don't really see obvious competition for this aside from the usual suspects (BMW 6 Gran Coupe / Merc CLS AMG etc.).
As mentioned in the other thread, the depreciation will be utterly hideous. But I'm not in the market for one and I don't get overly excited by purely financial arguments anyway. If you want something and can afford it, then buy!
One thing worth noting... Article was a bit gushy for my taste, even if the interior looks lovely and it's likely to drive better than anything else that size / segment by a country mile - I agree that BMW / Merc / Audi have been doing the high-end saloon gig for long enough not to be automatically sh*tting themselves, but for keen pilots with the wedge required I'd not be surprised if they opt for this as the likely "ultimate" in terms of the 4 seater luxury / dynamism / tech venn diagram. Shame Maser isn't more convincing, as I don't really see obvious competition for this aside from the usual suspects (BMW 6 Gran Coupe / Merc CLS AMG etc.).
As mentioned in the other thread, the depreciation will be utterly hideous. But I'm not in the market for one and I don't get overly excited by purely financial arguments anyway. If you want something and can afford it, then buy!
I used to have an E61 M5 as a daily. Mine had the full leather dash, doors, alcantara roof lining and the pano roof. Also had the individual sound system and piano black inlays. I popped into OPC E London to collect some bits and bobs for my 928GTS 5-spd. Could not help and wonder in the showroom. Had a chat with the sales guy and then sat in the Pany they had in the showroom. Have to say that the M5 felt distinctly average in terms of materials/fit/finish after the Porsche. And that's after a £5k leather option had been ticked. I can imagine the new Porsche is talking it to a new higher level...
Diesel Meister said:
Was going to post in the comments thread on the article. Looks much better (not hard!) than the Gen 1 Panam but still not as good as the shooting brake concept.
Article was a bit gushy for my taste, even if the interior looks lovely and it's likely to drive better than anything else that size / segment by a country mile - I agree that BMW / Merc / Audi have been doing the high-end saloon gig for long enough not to be automatically sh*tting themselves, but for keen pilots with the wedge required I'd not be surprised if they opt for this as the likely "ultimate" in terms of the 4 seater luxury / dynamism / tech venn diagram. Shame Maser isn't more convincing, as I don't really see obvious competition for this aside from the usual suspects (BMW 6 Gran Coupe / Merc CLS AMG etc.).
As mentioned in the other thread, the depreciation will be utterly hideous. But I'm not in the market for one and I don't get overly excited by purely financial arguments anyway. If you want something and can afford it, then buy!
Your last point is of particular relevance I feel. We are absolutely not rational creatures and should never pretend to be. Look at the watch industry - on paper wristwatches are completely redundant (the time is more easily available than ever), yet many people happily spend the cost of a 3 bed semi on exquisite pieces that give them pleasure.Article was a bit gushy for my taste, even if the interior looks lovely and it's likely to drive better than anything else that size / segment by a country mile - I agree that BMW / Merc / Audi have been doing the high-end saloon gig for long enough not to be automatically sh*tting themselves, but for keen pilots with the wedge required I'd not be surprised if they opt for this as the likely "ultimate" in terms of the 4 seater luxury / dynamism / tech venn diagram. Shame Maser isn't more convincing, as I don't really see obvious competition for this aside from the usual suspects (BMW 6 Gran Coupe / Merc CLS AMG etc.).
As mentioned in the other thread, the depreciation will be utterly hideous. But I'm not in the market for one and I don't get overly excited by purely financial arguments anyway. If you want something and can afford it, then buy!
As you were
Cheb - I don't doubt or disagree with your point at all, assuming you're saying the new Panam's likely a noticeable step-up that may better the competition as a package. But I still doubt BMW, Merc et al (volume manufacturers in this day and age) will be bricking it as the article implies.
It's probably been the experience of most when they move from a comparatively "white goods" type car (think mundano / insignia - although most modern cars are staggeringly well put together by comparison to those of 20 years ago imo) to something more premium like a bimmer or Audi. They're chuffed by the ambience / feel-good factor and general sense of the engineering and build integrity / quality. When said owner then experiences a Porsche or a Bentley, they're surprised again because they didn't know (or couldn't imagine how) it could be any better than the bimmer / Audi. I've not been in the position of owning anything more exotic than a bimmer as a new (company) car, but I've sat in and driven some tasty cars and do note that a high spec modern Porsche does make even the tidiest Audi / BMW interiors seem a bit normal / ordinary by comparison. It's certainly relative but it's there all the same.
If anything, I'd likely choose the Panam if I was in that segment, but that would be as much for the drive as anything else. That said, I'd certainly appreciate the extra sense of occasion and "specialness" over, say, an F10 M5 (which would itself feel like a private jet compared to some other cars). I think the Porsche offering, despite being eye-wateringly expensive by mortal standards, represents reasonable value by comparison to the M6 Gran Coupe for example, especially if you measure that value by more than trinkets and power outputs (e.g. chassis, interior and the overall subjective assessment).
If it drives as well as the last one was supposed to whilst looking better inside and out, it sounds like everyone is winning. It might help drive standards up.
Personally I'd like to see BMW do something special (MR, manual, nasp, >4 cylinders, possibly with hybrid power if they really must) in the 911 space (i.e. other than the i8)...
It's probably been the experience of most when they move from a comparatively "white goods" type car (think mundano / insignia - although most modern cars are staggeringly well put together by comparison to those of 20 years ago imo) to something more premium like a bimmer or Audi. They're chuffed by the ambience / feel-good factor and general sense of the engineering and build integrity / quality. When said owner then experiences a Porsche or a Bentley, they're surprised again because they didn't know (or couldn't imagine how) it could be any better than the bimmer / Audi. I've not been in the position of owning anything more exotic than a bimmer as a new (company) car, but I've sat in and driven some tasty cars and do note that a high spec modern Porsche does make even the tidiest Audi / BMW interiors seem a bit normal / ordinary by comparison. It's certainly relative but it's there all the same.
If anything, I'd likely choose the Panam if I was in that segment, but that would be as much for the drive as anything else. That said, I'd certainly appreciate the extra sense of occasion and "specialness" over, say, an F10 M5 (which would itself feel like a private jet compared to some other cars). I think the Porsche offering, despite being eye-wateringly expensive by mortal standards, represents reasonable value by comparison to the M6 Gran Coupe for example, especially if you measure that value by more than trinkets and power outputs (e.g. chassis, interior and the overall subjective assessment).
If it drives as well as the last one was supposed to whilst looking better inside and out, it sounds like everyone is winning. It might help drive standards up.
Personally I'd like to see BMW do something special (MR, manual, nasp, >4 cylinders, possibly with hybrid power if they really must) in the 911 space (i.e. other than the i8)...
Edited by Diesel Meister on Wednesday 29th June 16:33
Edited by Diesel Meister on Wednesday 29th June 16:36
Cheburator mk2 said:
One thing worth noting...
I used to have an E61 M5 as a daily. Mine had the full leather dash, doors, alcantara roof lining and the pano roof. Also had the individual sound system and piano black inlays. I popped into OPC E London to collect some bits and bobs for my 928GTS 5-spd. Could not help and wonder in the showroom. Had a chat with the sales guy and then sat in the Pany they had in the showroom. Have to say that the M5 felt distinctly average in terms of materials/fit/finish after the Porsche. And that's after a £5k leather option had been ticked. I can imagine the new Porsche is talking it to a new higher level...
Never sat in an E61 M5 so cannot compare, but my folks had a new gen2 Cayenne and the interior build quality was nothing more than a glossy, polished veneer applied to a hollow studded wall rather than the bricks and mortar and oak beams of an old Benz or LS400, even an E39 or my old 964. Had a poke around a customer's Panamera the other day: the look and feel is very similar. I used to have an E61 M5 as a daily. Mine had the full leather dash, doors, alcantara roof lining and the pano roof. Also had the individual sound system and piano black inlays. I popped into OPC E London to collect some bits and bobs for my 928GTS 5-spd. Could not help and wonder in the showroom. Had a chat with the sales guy and then sat in the Pany they had in the showroom. Have to say that the M5 felt distinctly average in terms of materials/fit/finish after the Porsche. And that's after a £5k leather option had been ticked. I can imagine the new Porsche is talking it to a new higher level...
I know, modern cars, progress, cost saving, etc.
olly755 said:
Never sat in an E61 M5 so cannot compare, but my folks had a new gen2 Cayenne and the interior build quality was nothing more than a glossy, polished veneer applied to a hollow studded wall rather than the bricks and mortar and oak beams of an old Benz or LS400, even an E39 or my old 964. Had a poke around a customer's Panamera the other day: the look and feel is very similar.
I know, modern cars, progress, cost saving, etc.
That's the thing - it's relative, which why I think the article was a bit overboard on the enthusiasm. Certain cars engineered and built during the 80s and early 90s (your examples are good but Porsches as well) seemed much more solidly constructed in many ways, even if the tech and choice of available materials has moved on. E34s, E39 etc. may rust a bit but sitting in one they feel better screwed to together and with a greater sense of solid longevity than say, a Z3 / X5. Only been in one Cayenne and it seemed okay if scattered with shiny buttons for my taste. Aside from the fact that it's really not my sort of car at all it seemed to go down the road well enough, even when it turned muddy and rutted. But the real test is what one would be like to live with, or in jumping from a box-fresh example to an older, more tired one, I guess.I know, modern cars, progress, cost saving, etc.
Naturally, I caveat that I'm not really qualified to comment as a I don't have first hand experience of the new Panam
Talking of Turbos I thought these had gone into the stratosphere value wise, what do we think of 110,000 mile 3.3 964 turbo for sub £60k ?
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C761040#
ETA if I could I would !
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C761040#
ETA if I could I would !
Diesel Meister said:
Rocket - the 3.3s are comparatively sane. No idea how they compare but if I wanted a 964 tubby and had the cash, I'd likely not bother with the 3.6 at this stage. The latter are completely bananas. 10-12 years back they could be had for under £40k in some cases, iirc.
I think sane people will predict a possible bubble end in sight or just think cash in now and bail. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff