The Best ///M/Barge/General Rant/Look at this/O/T (Vol XVII)

[s m]

p1stonhead said:

sly fox said:

jeremyc said:

World. Gone. Mad.



£60K to you, Sir.

As sold at this weekend's auction.

What is the logic behind that purchase? None. None at all.
They were not even that good when they were launched. Given that a 1.5 diesel hatchback has more power and torque, it's a rich man's folly.
Surely you cannot think the value will go up even further? What's the chance of finding someone willing to spend more than that on a f**king Ford Escort?
Maybe a Ford Mexico driven by a Flying Finn or Swede with Rally pedigree but a run of the mill road car?

Insanity.

How much do diamonds cost? They are valuable for no logical reason other than they are scarce. Same here.

I think a large part of the reason people are so sniffy about it is because, well, it's a Ford. People can't equate a Ford Escort, even an homologation special, being worth so much to someone else.
Any old 911 and it wouldn't raise a stir, just as cmoose observed.
Half a million pound 911s abound - matters not re the driving experience when they were new - legend and rarity overcomes a lot

I drove the RS1600i and RS S1 when they were pretty new cars thanks to a mate who was well-off. The Turbo had a LSD which did make it interesting - my friend who owned it could get the best out of it driven hard to keep us behind in our Peugeot GTi 1.9s at the time. Slow they were not, especially when the turbo was blowing hard.

I wouldn't pay 60k for one....but then I don't have the sort of money some of these buyers have

[sly fox]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

But you are not using the same logic.
Any 911, of any vintage, or a boxster for that matter, has some intrinsic value, engineering and pedigree. Not to mention performance.

It's a stbox Escort with a naff turbo conversion by Ford. It wasn't worth the money when it was new, let alone now. It's not £60k's worth of driving experience is it? Never will be. A vintage 911- given everything i've read -what is famed is the purity of driving experience which isn't something you can easily buy today. Never driven one to be sure to be honest to have an opinion.

I have driven an Escort RS turbo and it was about as close to a performance car as a Daewoo Matiz. It was a boy racer car with all show and little go. Engine suffered from lag, and when it was on boost it felt like it had the car equivalent of asthma. It torque steered like a cow on roller skates too. I couldnt find anything about it that seemed good, let alone great or worthy. Embarrassing for me as i drove it at a Fast Ford event which i was attending with a mate.

Law's of economics are tied to scarcity - absolutely- i understand that. Not all scarce things are valuable though. Would you pay £10 for a white dog turd which you just don't see these days?

Put it this way, would you rather spend £60k on that classic Ford Escort RS Turbo, or £60k on a classic/modern Porker of your choosing? Was/Is the RS Turbo really desirable? Other than to the muppet that spent £60k on one this weekend? £6k perhaps but not £60k?

It's value is what someone is prepared to pay, but i'd have to suggest that someone got a large dose of auction frenzy. I hope they are happy. I hope they didn't buy it thinking it would be a four wheeled investment. Because if/when this classic car market crashes, that car is going to be worth f**k all. Getting £60k's worth of enjoyment out of the Escort would take a lifetime.

The vintage 911? Suspect that wouldn't fall anywhere near as far.

[barchetta_boy]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Well yes and that is why the CGT is such a bargain right now (even at today's prices). I am really kicking myself for not buying one 3 years ago when they were £250k, they are kind of out of reach now.

Regarding creating a 2.7RS for a fraction of the asking... you need to start with a pre-73 911, they're now what? £40-50k? and then do a whole load of work to it, not to mention get a 2.7 MFI motor. I can't see a recreation, if done properly, leaving much change from £125k.

However I take your general point - you could create a 964RS or a 993RS for a fraction of the asking. Ever bigger fractions though...

[bungle]

Would be interesting to see how much the rest of the weekend's cars went for? They would have got a lot of "don't normally go to auctions"-people there (as part of the Classic Car Show), so people may have got carried away in the "excitement".

[CharlesdeGaulle]

A pretty little thing, but could the photos be any worse?

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C681891

[L100NYY]

[s m]

bungle said:

Would be interesting to see how much the rest of the weekend's cars went for? They would have got a lot of "don't normally go to auctions"-people there (as part of the Classic Car Show), so people may have got carried away in the "excitement".

You can look at the prices if you go to the main link - it tells you what didn't sell......and for the stuff they did sell, what it actually went for


https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/nec-classic-mo...

[olly755]

sly fox said:

But you are not using the same logic.
Any 911, of any vintage, or a boxster for that matter, has some intrinsic value, engineering and pedigree. Not to mention performance.

It's a stbox Escort with a naff turbo conversion by Ford. It wasn't worth the money when it was new, let alone now. It's not £60k's worth of driving experience is it? Never will be. A vintage 911- given everything i've read -what is famed is the purity of driving experience which isn't something you can easily buy today. Never driven one to be sure to be honest to have an opinion.

I have driven an Escort RS turbo and it was about as close to a performance car as a Daewoo Matiz. It was a boy racer car with all show and little go. Engine suffered from lag, and when it was on boost it felt like it had the car equivalent of asthma. It torque steered like a cow on roller skates too. I couldnt find anything about it that seemed good, let alone great or worthy. Embarrassing for me as i drove it at a Fast Ford event which i was attending with a mate.

Law's of economics are tied to scarcity - absolutely- i understand that. Not all scarce things are valuable though. Would you pay £10 for a white dog turd which you just don't see these days?

Put it this way, would you rather spend £60k on that classic Ford Escort RS Turbo, or £60k on a classic/modern Porker of your choosing? Was/Is the RS Turbo really desirable? Other than to the muppet that spent £60k on one this weekend? £6k perhaps but not £60k?

It's value is what someone is prepared to pay, but i'd have to suggest that someone got a large dose of auction frenzy. I hope they are happy. I hope they didn't buy it thinking it would be a four wheeled investment. Because if/when this classic car market crashes, that car is going to be worth f**k all. Getting £60k's worth of enjoyment out of the Escort would take a lifetime.

The vintage 911? Suspect that wouldn't fall anywhere near as far.

Nothing to do with driveability, everything to do with desirability.

RST's were desirable new, and are desirable now. As were 911's. But the Escort was attainable. Many purchased them in period, others wished they could. The market for the best cars is a broad church of either group, who now seek to relive their youth or reward their hard work by buying something "new" they couldn't afford at the time. An "I've made it!" moment for those with the means. The fact they don't drive particularly well is irrelevant- it will probably never be driven anyway.

I'm sure the new owner is delighted. It seems to make no financial sense at £60k so can only assume he/she wanted the best and nothing else, and bks to the fact that it will never be bandied around in Octane magazine as a "good investment" or a "safe place to put your money". For that very part alone, I applaud.

[s m]

olly755 said:

sly fox said:

But you are not using the same logic.
Any 911, of any vintage, or a boxster for that matter, has some intrinsic value, engineering and pedigree. Not to mention performance.

It's a stbox Escort with a naff turbo conversion by Ford. It wasn't worth the money when it was new, let alone now. It's not £60k's worth of driving experience is it? Never will be. A vintage 911- given everything i've read -what is famed is the purity of driving experience which isn't something you can easily buy today. Never driven one to be sure to be honest to have an opinion.

I have driven an Escort RS turbo and it was about as close to a performance car as a Daewoo Matiz. It was a boy racer car with all show and little go. Engine suffered from lag, and when it was on boost it felt like it had the car equivalent of asthma. It torque steered like a cow on roller skates too. I couldnt find anything about it that seemed good, let alone great or worthy. Embarrassing for me as i drove it at a Fast Ford event which i was attending with a mate.

Law's of economics are tied to scarcity - absolutely- i understand that. Not all scarce things are valuable though. Would you pay £10 for a white dog turd which you just don't see these days?

Put it this way, would you rather spend £60k on that classic Ford Escort RS Turbo, or £60k on a classic/modern Porker of your choosing? Was/Is the RS Turbo really desirable? Other than to the muppet that spent £60k on one this weekend? £6k perhaps but not £60k?

It's value is what someone is prepared to pay, but i'd have to suggest that someone got a large dose of auction frenzy. I hope they are happy. I hope they didn't buy it thinking it would be a four wheeled investment. Because if/when this classic car market crashes, that car is going to be worth f**k all. Getting £60k's worth of enjoyment out of the Escort would take a lifetime.

The vintage 911? Suspect that wouldn't fall anywhere near as far.

Nothing to do with driveability, everything to do with desirability.

RST's were desirable new, and are desirable now. As were 911's. But the Escort was attainable. Many purchased them in period, others wished they could. The market for the best cars is a broad church of either group, who now seek to relive their youth or reward their hard work by buying something "new" they couldn't afford at the time. An "I've made it!" moment for those with the means. The fact they don't drive particularly well is irrelevant- it will probably never be driven anyway.

I'm sure the new owner is delighted. It seems to make no financial sense at £60k so can only assume he/she wanted the best and nothing else, and bks to the fact that it will never be bandied around in Octane magazine as a "good investment" or a "safe place to put your money". For that very part alone, I applaud.

Yep, it was a car to homologate racing mods, hence the limited run, one of the first fwd cars with a LSD. In 1985, CAR magazine said they hadn't tested a faster hot hatch round their chosen track, quicker than the Abarth 130TC, Astra GTE, 205 GTi and Golf ( as well as the MR2, 2.8 Capri and Gtv6 ) so obviously wasn't too slow at the time. You can buy one for much less than 60k but this is probably as good as an example as you can get - rather like those 100k E30 M3s, but you can still buy one for under half that.
It doesn't have to be great to drive - a bit like those multimillion Miuras, gorgeous to look at but reportedly a bit of a disappointment to steer according to some in the know, it'll be in a collection

[rejn]

on another topic, interesting article in "How to spend it" recently - good to see one of our number name-checked, too...

[JZZ30]

This looks like a bit of fun (if you don't want to go round corners!)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Sierra-Mk1-3-Door-6...

[L100NYY]

Clucking bells!!!

[W00DY]

JZZ30 said:

This looks like a bit of fun (if you don't want to go round corners!)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Sierra-Mk1-3-Door-6...

That may be the best thing ever.

[braddo]

10 litres of V8 making 100hp/litre. Blimey!

[CharlesdeGaulle]

Some 1970s brown loveliness. I can't post pics from work, so I'd be grateful if someone could add them, but pic 5 almost matches the house.

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C675048

[CharlesdeGaulle]

Thanks cmoose.

That car is a fine-looking thing.

[L100NYY]

Just watching that Top Gear and now rather fancy a 928 GT. Or maybe an Esprit.

Although I also rather like the idea of a Cerbera......ya know, that sort of sputs flames 'n stuff. Flames, that is, in a good way of course.

[0a]

What's the thread verdict on these 2.5 Boxsters?

Reading various forums the 2.7 and 3.2 engines seem to liberally spread their insides down the road in a fashion to match more modern porsches. Minimal research suggests that the 2.5 is slightly stronger.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

[L100NYY]

Cmoose is probably your man on this one. I had a 3.2 S which was a stonker of an all rounder, not driven a 2.5 I don't think, can't see how you could go wrong at that money for a Boxster to be honest.

[Ali2202]

Have to go Silver/Ambers with red interior though. As per original concept.

Anything else on a 986 looks a bit porno IMO