The Best ///M/Barge/General Rant/Look at this/O/T (Vol XVII)

[Leins]

rejn said:

jeremyc said:

rejn said:

If they're handing out Group B rally cars, I'll take a 6R4 thanks!

Whilst you're at it, I'll take a pinch of Vorsprung please.

wasn't it Peformance Car back in the day who got together most of the Group B rally cars for a feature - Audi quattro, 6R4, Peugeot T16, a mad Citroen BX(?) and possibly others... [waits for somebody to post up cover of magazine]

Think it was titled "Too fast to rally"?

BX 4tc was sold last month for €62k: http://www.artcurial.com/en/asp/fullcatalogue.asp?...

Pretty sure the same car was sold at auction for mid-€30ks a couple of years ago. Supposedly a terrible road-car, and a failed GrpB attempt that Citroen tried its best to cover up through culling, yet I'd still dearly love one

[Accelebrate]

Thoughts on a cheap 320si?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-BMW-320si-Black-hom...

I'm guessing the price is a result of not enough cylinders and horsepower to attract a following, and the potential for big bills if the aluminium liners give up.

[Olf]

This chancer has taken a leaf out of Hexagons book and the added a 30% premium.


http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

[ferrisbueller]

Accelebrate said:

Thoughts on a cheap 320si?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-BMW-320si-Black-hom...

I'm guessing the price is a result of not enough cylinders and horsepower to attract a following, and the potential for big bills if the aluminium liners give up.

Niche choice which may be sought after by uber-anoraks at some point.

Revvy engine is different and the wheels are nice.

However, similar cash buys a 330i....

[_Batty_]

Accelebrate said:

Thoughts on a cheap 320si?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-BMW-320si-Black-hom...

I'm guessing the price is a result of not enough cylinders and horsepower to attract a following, and the potential for big bills if the aluminium liners give up.

Never saw the point of 320si and its reputation for eating it's bores doesn't help.
A 330i would be a much better car IMHO.

[Cheburator mk2]

ferrisbueller said:

Niche choice which may be sought after by uber-anoraks at some point.

Revvy engine is different and the wheels are nice.

However, similar cash buys a 330i....

I have an acquaintance in the trade - specializes in BMWs of all sorts. We were talking about the 320Si as he was offered one by a customer as a PX. His sentiment was that although it has some USPs - the homologation engine and wheels, etc, the trade hates them due to potential for huge bills with the fragile engine and the cars commanding a price, which is not justified by its performance vs. a 330 or even a "lowly" 325...

[Output Flange]

Is an E30 320iS quicker than an E30 325i?

[ferrisbueller]

Output Flange said:

Is an E30 320iS quicker than an E30 325i?

Should be, yes.

192bhp vs 170bhp.

Big money for a good 320iS now.

[Leins]

Yep, similar performance to an Alpina C2.5, albeit delivered in a different fashion

[Cheburator mk2]

Output Flange said:

Is an E30 320iS quicker than an E30 325i?

Yes, I had one for a bit.

Standing 1/4m - not much in it, as drivers' ability to execute a good launch made most of the difference (I was crap)

Rolling - always the 320iS - you cannot beat a S14 going for the redline, especially with a standard M20B25 which chokes at 6k

M20B25 with Hartge headers and a Hartge chip in the Motronic - rolling, very, very close, but still the S14 would edge it.

Only downside - the S14 was a lot more capricious to fuel quality, valve clearance being set properly, AFM graphite paths wear etc...

[L100NYY]

I'd still like a lil' E30 318is

[rejn]

silly question re E30 320iS - is it a 4 pot or 6?

[rejn]

Just having a quick look for 320iS (four cylinder it turns out!), I spotted this



Never seen one before, so mildly interesting.

[ferrisbueller]

rejn said:

Just having a quick look for 320iS (four cylinder it turns out!), I spotted this



Never seen one before, so mildly interesting.

Mildly interesting in the same way a new variant of herpes would be and similarly desirable.

[Diesel Meister]

rejn said:

silly question re E30 320iS - is it a 4 pot or 6?

S14 = 4 pots. Shrunken M3 engine basically.

I still have love for the M20B25 - it's a boat anchor that doesn't love revving beyond about 5k but it makes good torque and a lovely noise. Loved my 325i sport, despite the rust and slightly frontier-ish attitude to cornering with decorum in the wet

I wouldn't kick a 2.7 stroker out of bed, but the M50/52 are probably better engines and frequently swapped into E30s (well, those that haven't dissolved into a scabby piles of oxidised metal and plastic trim) I think there was a touring on PH for £5k with all gubbins done. An S38 or S50 would be great but also heavy.

[Leins]

L100NYY said:

I'd still like a lil' E30 318is

Great fun in the twisties, but I didn't really enjoy it much as a daily, slogging along the motorway

Diesel Meister said:

An S38 or S50 would be great but also heavy.

Some Hartge S38 goodness:

Edited by Leins on Tuesday 8th March 15:29

[Cheburator mk2]

rejn said:

silly question re E30 320iS - is it a 4 pot or 6?

4-pot de-stroked S14 based, official designation was S14B20... It had some trick bits - the throttle bodies are the same as fitted to the 2.5 Sport Evo II (widest diameter), same with the exhaust headers. They made 192bhp, which is remarkable considering the engine lost 300cc - the original cat M3 came with 195bhp. The S14B20 is also a touch smoother.

The 320iS was a tax dodge, specifically created for the Italian and Portuguese markets, where car tax was engine size based and the E30 325i struggled to sell. Think of the 320iS as a 325i Motorsport with a stonking engine and gearbox and you will not be far off.

[rejn]

Cheburator mk2 and Diesel Meister said:

good stuff

thanks both.

I can see I need to do my homework!

So in my simple brain from what I've read, S=sport and M/N=normal - is that right? and the number after the B = litres (x10)?

so S14B20 means 2 litres from the S14 (sporty, but old) family?
And M20B25 means 2.5 litres from the M20 (non-sporty, similar age) family?
And M50B20 means 2.0 litres from the M50 (non-sporty, but newer) family?

I can feel the stubble growing as I type!!

[Leins]

Kind of, except the M1/M635/E28 M5 had an M88 in them, which was also a proper M-Division motor. That then morphed into the S38_B36 (which was actually a 3.5L) and S38_B38 (the largest 6-cyl BMW ever put in a road-car). Hope that clear it up

[jeremyc]

rejn said:

I can feel the stubble growing as I type!!

A little way to go until you have earned your stripes I think.

Where's Zwolf when you need him?