The Best ///M/Barge/General Rant/Look at this/O/T (Vol XVII)
Discussion
ATM said:
I think I may prefer that to the LS V8 conversions, like you're car (no offence intended) as it just feels so 'factory'.
However, £30k? Surely the car + engine + installation could be done for a lot less than that?
And that's not me slagging it off as I LOVE IT but it just feels like a lot of money. Is that good, low miles CS territory?
ATM said:
That is all kinds of awesome. I approve.ATM said:
Porsche 996 Gemballa GTR500 (1998)
On Ebay auction - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331886819467
Current Bid - £25,700
Previously in Classifieds here.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Whereas that's just an abortion.On Ebay auction - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331886819467
Current Bid - £25,700
Previously in Classifieds here.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
tenfour said:
ATM said:
That is all kinds of awesome. I approve.MUCH prefer that over CS
Does anyone recall a short-lived "performance" car magazine from the late 80s? I remember it being printed on high-quality paper, and being quite pricey compared to the rivals, but cannot for the life of me remember the name of this publication
Anyway, I'm pretty sure two of its cover stars were the then-new Ruf CTR in obligatory yellow, and also a reintroduced Railton for the late-80s (which may have been light blue IIRC). Ring any bells with anyone? It wasn't any of the likely suspects like Performance Car, Fast Lane or Supercar & Classics
And there was also a feature on one of these Gemballas:
Anyway, I'm pretty sure two of its cover stars were the then-new Ruf CTR in obligatory yellow, and also a reintroduced Railton for the late-80s (which may have been light blue IIRC). Ring any bells with anyone? It wasn't any of the likely suspects like Performance Car, Fast Lane or Supercar & Classics
And there was also a feature on one of these Gemballas:
tenfour said:
ATM said:
That is all kinds of awesome. I approve.
ferrisbueller said:
Oh
couldn't agree more. Very cool indeed - the idea of a manual v10 E46 is great; the fact that it looks stock is just brilliant. The engine bay looks like it was designed that way from the factory. Very impressive.And that Gemballa thing - take away the stickers, paint the wheels silver, and I actually wouldn't mind it...
ETA: current bid just over £40k.
Edited by rejn on Thursday 23 June 11:41
Edited by rejn on Thursday 23 June 11:42
Leins said:
Does anyone recall a short-lived "performance" car magazine from the late 80s? I remember it being printed on high-quality paper, and being quite pricey compared to the rivals, but cannot for the life of me remember the name of this publication
Anyway, I'm pretty sure two of its cover stars were the then-new Ruf CTR in obligatory yellow, and also a reintroduced Railton for the late-80s (which may have been light blue IIRC). Ring any bells with anyone? It wasn't any of the likely suspects like Performance Car, Fast Lane or Supercar & Classics
And there was also a feature on one of these Gemballas:
World Sports Cars Anyway, I'm pretty sure two of its cover stars were the then-new Ruf CTR in obligatory yellow, and also a reintroduced Railton for the late-80s (which may have been light blue IIRC). Ring any bells with anyone? It wasn't any of the likely suspects like Performance Car, Fast Lane or Supercar & Classics
And there was also a feature on one of these Gemballas:
ferrisbueller said:
tenfour said:
ATM said:
That is all kinds of awesome. I approve.But I can't help thinking the pricing is a bit optimistic. I've had offers around a quarter of that price for my v8 e46. It is 4 times betterer?
ATM said:
I like it.
But I can't help thinking the pricing is a bit optimistic. I've had offers around a quarter of that price for my v8 e46. It is 4 times betterer?
That's where I am at.But I can't help thinking the pricing is a bit optimistic. I've had offers around a quarter of that price for my v8 e46. It is 4 times betterer?
Although arguably one of the greatest production engines of all time, they can be a little bit fragile and this is still a 'modified' car.
I was imagining something more around £15k, to be honest.
I'm guessing a drive in, drive out, turnkey LS3 conversion (brand new) could be done, including the donor car for less than £20k and would arguably be more robust and have more power.
Having said that - this looks factory, the V10 is AWESOME and I am in love.
Just not £30k in love.
Output Flange said:
Disagree with you. I'd bet money you couldn't build that for less.
The V10 or the LS3?LS costs are fairly well known. I've enquired and they're on ATM's thread about his car.
I'd love to see a V10 build thread but I'd be very surprised if it cost that much.
Cars available for ~£8k at that mileage.
Engines available ~£5k.
Call the car £10k and the engine £7.5k and that still leaves you with £12.5k of engine mounts, wiring, cooling, fuelling etc.
All of that is no doubt complex but £12.5k complex? No way.
Edited to add: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...
Buy a donor M5, running, and I assume you have most of the parts you need. You can also then sell what you don't use, plus the M3 engine etc.
£30k? Don't see it.
Edited by dom9 on Thursday 23 June 15:28
dom9 said:
Output Flange said:
Disagree with you. I'd bet money you couldn't build that for less.
The V10 or the LS3?LS costs are fairly well known. I've enquired and they're on ATM's thread about his car.
I'd love to see a V10 build thread but I'd be very surprised if it cost that much.
Cars available for ~£8k at that mileage.
Engines available ~£5k.
Call the car £10k and the engine £7.5k and that still leaves you with £12.5k of engine mounts, wiring, cooling, fuelling etc.
All of that is no doubt complex but £12.5k complex? No way.
dom9 said:
The V10 or the LS3?
LS costs are fairly well known. I've enquired and they're on ATM's thread about his car.
I'd love to see a V10 build thread but I'd be very surprised if it cost that much.
Cars available for ~£8k at that mileage.
Engines available ~£5k.
Call the car £10k and the engine £7.5k and that still leaves you with £12.5k of engine mounts, wiring, cooling, fuelling etc.
All of that is no doubt complex but £12.5k complex? No way.
That's minimum costs though. Think of all the things that you'd change while you were in there - new clutch etc etc. Could you do this yourself? Competent garage labour isn't cheap.LS costs are fairly well known. I've enquired and they're on ATM's thread about his car.
I'd love to see a V10 build thread but I'd be very surprised if it cost that much.
Cars available for ~£8k at that mileage.
Engines available ~£5k.
Call the car £10k and the engine £7.5k and that still leaves you with £12.5k of engine mounts, wiring, cooling, fuelling etc.
All of that is no doubt complex but £12.5k complex? No way.
ATM said:
There is a dynotorque built RX7 with an LS3 on ebay regularly. It is papercup's old car. It can be had for about £15k.
Updated my post as I didn't realize that donor M5s could be had so cheap, so no real point just buying an engine.I'd love a crate LS3 in an RX7, which I think is one of the most beautiful modern car designs...
But (to be clear, I am not criticizing that M3/5) I would still take this V10 over it.
Would a BMW V10 fit in the front of an RX7....? Daydreaming now!
Output Flange said:
That's minimum costs though. Think of all the things that you'd change while you were in there - new clutch etc etc. Could you do this yourself? Competent garage labour isn't cheap.
But they're not minimum costs. Read again. The shell clearly isn't a 1,000 mile CSL minter. It's an almost 100k M3, of which there are many available at the price point I gave, especially when I added an extra £2k to it.You're changing your argument now - is the clutch on this one brand new? There is an M5 manual available in the US so a clutch and flywheel must be available even if it needs modification, which isn't going to cost the Earth.
Does this have to be built by a garage? I would need someone to help me with the wiring (more because I don't like it than anything else) but yes, I could probably do the rest. Especially with donor M5s being less than £15k, which would hopefully mean engine looms, ECUs etc can be mostly re-used.
In fact, the seller even says he built it himself and it uses mostly standard equipment, including ECU, which is the pricey bit of a V10 conversion.
V10 conversions are not that rare and although they were 'difficult', people understand the engine much better now and there are a lot of 3rd party bits and bobs available. There are even a couple being done on this forum.
I'm really not slagging this car off as I LOVE IT but I would rather build one myself or have one built to my specs for £30k. And that's the crux... This guy may well have a receipt for £30k or maybe £100k (having built it himself though, I'm guessing not) - that doesn't mean it is worth that.
As ATM said; is this car 4x better than his LS car? To some, maybe. To me, no. And I suspect I am the target buyer. I like BMWs (I have a V8 BMW) and I like engine conversions and would happily own a modified car like this.
But for £30k there is no value there to me. That's not to say he didn't spend that to build it (though I suspect he didn't, unless it was done when M3s and M5s were further up the depreciation curve, which isn't the case now) or that someone won't buy it.
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