RE: BMW i8 vs The Real World

RE: BMW i8 vs The Real World

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Discussion

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Wednesday 21st January 2015
quotequote all
davea18h said:
ORD said:
davea18h said:
Felt compelled to write in on this one, especially after the fuel figures which I've seen before.
This car is supposed to be all things.... ie looks, performance and fantastic mpg, with the mpg being the deciding factor as you could have both a sports car of considerable performance and great fuel consumption and free congestion charging to boot if you're in fashionable London!
I think it looks great, has the technology, carbon fibre etc, engine and hybrid technology seems to be great on paper....
But you can get all this for half the price with an Alpina BMW diesel. In some respects BMW should be taken to court over their wildly inaccurate claims of fuel consumption and would be a great test case against other manufacturers making wild claims with regards fuel consumption.
Just a final note... what if Alpina had the i8 and put one of it's sports diesel engines in it? All that lightness and performance would make a formidable machine!
A 3 litre diesel engine is not going to fit or keep the car light.

Taking BMW to court for posting the (correct) official figures that everyone knows don't reflect real world driving? Get real. It's amazing how easily people will throw around allegations of dishonesty. BMW simply publishes the figures that it is required to publish following from tests that it is required to do.
The Alpina thing was purely hypothetical. As for the fuel stats, the average car tested is (approx)anything from 15% to 25% out on average. The BMW is (roughly speaking) 50% to 60% out which is a considerable amount, and probably in the real world, absolutely unobtainable. The point being that manufacturers should be giving more real world figures. As for the performance diesel Alpinas, read the write ups to check on real world performance and average fuel consumption. Steve Sutcliffe recent road tests in Autocar for example. And no they aren't made of carbon fibre, more's the pity. It's a comparison, if it hit 90 to 100 to gallon instaed of the 130 odd I'd be impressed. All that technology, engine downsizing, hybrid, carbon fibre almost seems a waste, except you could argue it's the first of it's kind etc etc. I do think it looks fab inside and out, the technology is fantastic and I love it. But it's supposed to be all things and clearly isn't!
The cars aren't "out" - they DO get the figures on the official cycle; they just don't get those same figures in real world driving (a different test).

The official cycle is not representative of real world fuel efficiency - manufacturers tell us this; nobody who cares at all about cars expects official cycle figures to tell you much at all, especially not in an Eco car that is designed to do well on the official cycle.

The i8 is a showpiece. Aside from the stupid CO2 taxing regime, it has nothing at all going for it ahead of a petrol car, but that isn't the point of these kind of cars. They aren't for driving enthusiasts; they are for technology nerds, show-offs and people who care about BIK %.


Lowtimer

4,286 posts

167 months

Wednesday 21st January 2015
quotequote all
ORD said:
Aside from the stupid CO2 taxing regime, it has nothing at all going for it ahead of a petrol car, but that isn't the point of these kind of cars. They aren't for driving enthusiasts; they are for technology nerds, show-offs and people who care about BIK %.
There's one other group: people who want to preserve their medium-term ability to drive into London, and park in residents' spaces there, without being further viciously assaulted by the taxman / local authority (or increasingly squeezed out altogether as emissions regimes tighten).

The London ULEZ doesn't come in for another five years but it's clearly a harbinger of what's on the way, and this sort of thing is breaking out in many other European countries too.
https://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-...

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Wednesday 21st January 2015
quotequote all
Lowtimer said:
ORD said:
Aside from the stupid CO2 taxing regime, it has nothing at all going for it ahead of a petrol car, but that isn't the point of these kind of cars. They aren't for driving enthusiasts; they are for technology nerds, show-offs and people who care about BIK %.
There's one other group: people who want to preserve their medium-term ability to drive into London, and park in residents' spaces there, without being further viciously assaulted by the taxman / local authority (or increasingly squeezed out altogether as emissions regimes tighten).

The London ULEZ doesn't come in for another five years but it's clearly a harbinger of what's on the way, and this sort of thing is breaking out in many other European countries too.
https://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-...
(1) It doesn't come in for 5 years, so buying a £100k car now to anticipate that change makes no sense.

(2) Any new petrol car will be "ultra low" emissions for the purposes of the ULEZ, according to what I have read.

If London goes EV only, then I will run 2 cars - something like an i3 and a proper car for outside of London.

RemarkLima

2,366 posts

211 months

Wednesday 21st January 2015
quotequote all
ORD said:
(1) It [the London ULEZ] doesn't come in for 5 years, so buying a £100k car now to anticipate that change makes no sense.
But as a business, 5 years is nothing, and by that point you'd want to have the product matured and a reasonable market share so that you jump the gun on your competitors.

It is also showing the winds of change, so why wait until the 11th hour to bodge something together, rather than make those changes part of your wider plan?

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Wednesday 21st January 2015
quotequote all
RemarkLima said:
But as a business, 5 years is nothing, and by that point you'd want to have the product matured and a reasonable market share so that you jump the gun on your competitors.

It is also showing the winds of change, so why wait until the 11th hour to bodge something together, rather than make those changes part of your wider plan?
I think were at cross purposes. Great idea from BMW, but I can't see much of a case for buy

Triple7

4,013 posts

236 months

Wednesday 21st January 2015
quotequote all
unsprung said:
Did you feel that the delivery of torque was especially noticeable when first moving off the line? In the i8, the electric motor provides just under half the torque. And, as you know, 100 percent of electric motor torque is available at 0 rpm.
Yes, there was no doubt of the torque when pulling away in eDrive alone. So much so, on damp roads the fronts would slip. I mistakingly didn't check that I'd returned the car back to 'comfort' mode and had a prolonged hoon in electric mode and was none-the- wiser as the speed and power were simple awesome, (in front wheel drive alone!)

After nearly a week still can't stop thinking about how much I enjoyed the car....


Terminator X

14,922 posts

203 months

Wednesday 21st January 2015
quotequote all
Lowtimer said:
There's one other group: people who want to preserve their medium-term ability to drive into London, and park in residents' spaces there, without being further viciously assaulted by the taxman / local authority (or increasingly squeezed out altogether as emissions regimes tighten).

The London ULEZ doesn't come in for another five years but it's clearly a harbinger of what's on the way, and this sort of thing is breaking out in many other European countries too.
https://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-...
Just stay away from those places, hopefully they'll get the message after a while.

TX.

Gun

13,431 posts

217 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
quotequote all
danp said:
Macboy said:
Parkers online tax calculator has a 64 plate 911 C2S at just under £1000/month !
Chs, tried it myself, 100k i8 is 166/month, 91k 911 C4S PDK is 1059/month. (at 40% tax rate)
Out of interest, where are you finding these i8 business lease deals? They're pretty tempting...

Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
quotequote all
They're BIK tax figures, not lease figures.

At under 200 notes a month we wouldn't be able to move for i8s everywhere!

Just imagine (!) booting past a poverty spec A3 TDI in Dubai spec white - I'd put a big sign in the back window 'my car cost considerably less that yours'...

Pixelpeep7r

8,600 posts

141 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
quotequote all
Sway said:
They're BIK tax figures, not lease figures.

At under 200 notes a month we wouldn't be able to move for i8s everywhere!

Just imagine (!) booting past a poverty spec A3 TDI in Dubai spec white - I'd put a big sign in the back window 'my car cost considerably less that yours'...
Corrrr that bloke on that other thread about not wanting a golf r because people 'know' how cheap it is to lease and won't think he's super successful would have a heart attack if that was the cost to lease an i8 :0)

unsprung

5,467 posts

123 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
quotequote all
Triple7 said:
unsprung said:
Did you feel that the delivery of torque was especially noticeable when first moving off the line? In the i8, the electric motor provides just under half the torque. And, as you know, 100 percent of electric motor torque is available at 0 rpm.
Yes, there was no doubt of the torque when pulling away in eDrive alone. So much so, on damp roads the fronts would slip. I mistakingly didn't check that I'd returned the car back to 'comfort' mode and had a prolonged hoon in electric mode and was none-the- wiser as the speed and power were simple awesome, (in front wheel drive alone!)

After nearly a week still can't stop thinking about how much I enjoyed the car....
beer thanks



Triple7

4,013 posts

236 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
quotequote all
Can someone explain the tax situ on this car.

Article I read that from April '15 any car under 75g co2 can have 100% of value written off against Corp Tax, any car over that is only 18%. Is that right.

Bimmer dealer says you can offset £20k against corp tax, so which is it?

LewG

1,357 posts

145 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
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Technology seems very, very clever in these things but I can't be the only one to think that it looks absolutely awful?

slippery

14,093 posts

238 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
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You can offset all of it against a new one.

slippery

14,093 posts

238 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
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If anyone wants my build slot for a May delivery, they can have it.

MarshPhantom

9,658 posts

136 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
quotequote all
Fire99 said:
Ok the 911 won't do amazing mpg but these days I think they offer fairly respectable economy on a motorway cruise and the i8 seems to need a whole lot of 'carefulness' to get good mpg. Would a 911 with the same delicate foot offer pretty good mpg too? (relatively)
If you can spend this much on a sports car you aren't going to be too concerned about MPG.

MarshPhantom

9,658 posts

136 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
quotequote all
LewG said:
Technology seems very, very clever in these things but I can't be the only one to think that it looks absolutely awful?
I've seen one on the road, I'm not convinced by the styling.

CRA1G

6,501 posts

194 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
quotequote all
slippery said:
If anyone wants my build slot for a May delivery, they can have it.
Slippery are you serious........! yikes

slippery

14,093 posts

238 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
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CRA1G said:
Slippery are you serious........! yikes
Yes.

Triple7

4,013 posts

236 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
quotequote all
CRA1G said:
Slippery are you serious........! yikes
Why don't you want it?