Tesla P85D vs Dodge Hellcat
Discussion
The new Tesla P85D (the twin motor 700hp one) setting a world record. Shame the driver of Dodge Challenger Hellcat (also 700hp) it was racing against made such a cock up of it.
http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/hellcat-driver-gets-...
I wonder how many times the Tesla will let you do this before the drivetrain protection systems kick in?
Either way seriously impressive.
http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/hellcat-driver-gets-...
I wonder how many times the Tesla will let you do this before the drivetrain protection systems kick in?
Either way seriously impressive.
You can charge the Tesla for £10 and get 300 miles range out of it.
As well as get that number.
Quite something - I was rather sad stepping out of the 480bhp version as it's clear this will wipe out the internal combustion engine in most applications within a couple of car generation.
As well as get that number.
Quite something - I was rather sad stepping out of the 480bhp version as it's clear this will wipe out the internal combustion engine in most applications within a couple of car generation.
So what's the deal with this Tesla thing then? Is it really able to challenge the big names or will they soon fade away to be bought out by an established brand, with the good tech bits used and the rest discarded?
On the surface it all looks really quite good, but how long until someone like VAG comes along with something similar but better? It's very interesting.
On the surface it all looks really quite good, but how long until someone like VAG comes along with something similar but better? It's very interesting.
David87 said:
So what's the deal with this Tesla thing then? Is it really able to challenge the big names or will they soon fade away to be bought out by an established brand, with the good tech bits used and the rest discarded?
On the surface it all looks really quite good, but how long until someone like VAG comes along with something similar but better? It's very interesting.
The one I drove felt like the 'real thing'. I don't thing VAG have the technology. Unlike previous companies doing the same, Tesla have massive funds behind them and a CEO that seems to know a thing or two about building a business or two (eg Paypal).On the surface it all looks really quite good, but how long until someone like VAG comes along with something similar but better? It's very interesting.
David87 said:
So what's the deal with this Tesla thing then? Is it really able to challenge the big names or will they soon fade away to be bought out by an established brand, with the good tech bits used and the rest discarded?
On the surface it all looks really quite good, but how long until someone like VAG comes along with something similar but better? It's very interesting.
Exactly.On the surface it all looks really quite good, but how long until someone like VAG comes along with something similar but better? It's very interesting.
All the big brands will run the combustion engine as their primary powertrain choice for as long as possible as all the R&D expenditure they invested has been returned and it's just profit for them now.
Tesla have built their market on doing something different which, whilst admirable, is only successful as long as they are different. Do we really think BMW, Audi, Toyota, Honda, Ford etc. can't do better than a guy who allowed us to pay for things with our email address? No, they'll let Tesla pour their funds into developing better and better electric cars (I'm sure making Tesla massive amounts of money in the process) only for the large marques to use their economies of scale to offer the same product to the public at 50% of the price; advertised better, delivered better and supported better.
dvs_dave said:
I wonder how many times the Tesla will let you do this before the drivetrain protection systems kick in?
Either way seriously impressive.
Two or three times before the invertor got hot and reduced power by 2/3rds? The numbers from the respective manufacturers show that the Dodge is the quicker car over the quarter mile. In the meantime, Tesla fanbois will masturbate furiously over this particular video, declare the imminent death of the internal combustion engine and refuse to entertain any thoughts that the Model S isn't simply the most perfect car in the history (or future) of the Earth.Either way seriously impressive.
MrBarry123 said:
Exactly.
All the big brands will run the combustion engine as their primary powertrain choice for as long as possible as all the R&D expenditure they invested has been returned and it's just profit for them now.
Tesla have built their market on doing something different which, whilst admirable, is only successful as long as they are different. Do we really think BMW, Audi, Toyota, Honda, Ford etc. can't do better than a guy who allowed us to pay for things with our email address? No, they'll let Tesla pour their funds into developing better and better electric cars (I'm sure making Tesla massive amounts of money in the process) only for the large marques to use their economies of scale to offer the same product to the public at 50% of the price; advertised better, delivered better and supported better.
I haven't seen BMW, Audi, Toyota, Honda or Ford launching many space vehicles lately.All the big brands will run the combustion engine as their primary powertrain choice for as long as possible as all the R&D expenditure they invested has been returned and it's just profit for them now.
Tesla have built their market on doing something different which, whilst admirable, is only successful as long as they are different. Do we really think BMW, Audi, Toyota, Honda, Ford etc. can't do better than a guy who allowed us to pay for things with our email address? No, they'll let Tesla pour their funds into developing better and better electric cars (I'm sure making Tesla massive amounts of money in the process) only for the large marques to use their economies of scale to offer the same product to the public at 50% of the price; advertised better, delivered better and supported better.
MrBarry123 said:
David87 said:
So what's the deal with this Tesla thing then? Is it really able to challenge the big names or will they soon fade away to be bought out by an established brand, with the good tech bits used and the rest discarded?
On the surface it all looks really quite good, but how long until someone like VAG comes along with something similar but better? It's very interesting.
Exactly.On the surface it all looks really quite good, but how long until someone like VAG comes along with something similar but better? It's very interesting.
All the big brands will run the combustion engine as their primary powertrain choice for as long as possible as all the R&D expenditure they invested has been returned and it's just profit for them now.
Tesla have built their market on doing something different which, whilst admirable, is only successful as long as they are different. Do we really think BMW, Audi, Toyota, Honda, Ford etc. can't do better than a guy who allowed us to pay for things with our email address? No, they'll let Tesla pour their funds into developing better and better electric cars (I'm sure making Tesla massive amounts of money in the process) only for the large marques to use their economies of scale to offer the same product to the public at 50% of the price; advertised better, delivered better and supported better.
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our-patent-are...
Their stated goal is to accelerate the advent of electric cars. They are already providing powertrains to Merc (Smart, B class) and Toyota (Rav4)
The big brands are making sod all effort in this direction, easily seen by what is happening in battery production. Even the modest volume of cars Tesla are trying to scale to over the next few years would consume *all* of the world's Li battery production for all electronics.
Obviously we still want to have smartphones so that wont work, hence Tesla having broken ground on the 'Gigafactory' in Nevada which will ultimately produce several times more batteries than current total global supply.
No one else is showing any signs of tackling this issue yet. Even if the majors aggressively pursue electric cars now it will take a good few years to get the required production moving. They also need to deal with building the charging infrastructure, something Tesla are already getting on with.
If we're dismissing Musk as just 'the PayPal guy' (something he hasn't been involved with for > 10years) you'll also have to acknowledge his building an aerospace company from scratch. SpaceX now a multi billion $ company doing regular launch for commercial & govt.
Put in the opposite direction - how would you feel about going to the ISS on a Ford rocket?
Tesla are tiny. Annual global car production is 80M vs Tesla 0.03M & aiming to grow to 0.5M in a few years.
That said a company worth 10's of billions with a very committed & driven leader, and some years ahead of the old guys on both tech and necessary production isn't going to disappear.
Interesting isnt it. Monster acceleration without the massive cost penalty for running a quick car (sort of) which is all down to the fact that electricity is taxed less than petrol. It wont last.
Personally, those that say established brands can build a better car are almost certainly right. Those that say they dont really want to build electric yet are also right. I suspect that under the greenwash governments dont want electric cars yet (taxation problem, too quick, possibly grid/supply/infrastructure problem).
The way I read it, I think the tesla cars will be only a side show to show up the other manufacturers when necessary and to drive the transition away from internal combustion. What they really want to do is own charging infrastructure (selling elec at exorbitant prices) and to become the defacto tier 1 supplier of batteries and drivetrains to a large chunk of the worldwide car industry.
Personally, those that say established brands can build a better car are almost certainly right. Those that say they dont really want to build electric yet are also right. I suspect that under the greenwash governments dont want electric cars yet (taxation problem, too quick, possibly grid/supply/infrastructure problem).
The way I read it, I think the tesla cars will be only a side show to show up the other manufacturers when necessary and to drive the transition away from internal combustion. What they really want to do is own charging infrastructure (selling elec at exorbitant prices) and to become the defacto tier 1 supplier of batteries and drivetrains to a large chunk of the worldwide car industry.
Oh dear, that Hellcat driver balls that up in epic fashion... I think I could have got a healthy lead on him in the family diesel off the line!
I'm not sure what Tesla do matters all that much in the grand scheme- its a halo project, albeit a very good one and one I'd be happy to buy into if it was affordable.
Electricity is a fine way to power things if the price is right, I drove an Outlander PHEV before Christmas, same price as the Diesel model of the same car- that's starting to make sense to people.
I'm not sure what Tesla do matters all that much in the grand scheme- its a halo project, albeit a very good one and one I'd be happy to buy into if it was affordable.
Electricity is a fine way to power things if the price is right, I drove an Outlander PHEV before Christmas, same price as the Diesel model of the same car- that's starting to make sense to people.
hahithestevieboy said:
Interesting isnt it. Monster acceleration without the massive cost penalty for running a quick car (sort of) which is all down to the fact that electricity is taxed less than petrol. It wont last.
Petrol is finite, in the long game prices have to keep rising. Electricity can be made lots of ways & in the past few years we've seen solar panels drop from $4/Watt to abou $1/Watt.That said, a Tesla may be fuel-cheap for straight line punch but it's not a direct replacement for sporty stuff.
Its 2.2 tonnes. Drive it hard anywhere you need the tyres or brakes and watch it eat itself in short order.
That huge punch from 0rpm must be awesome for daily getting about and turns in impressive numbers for the magazines but it's no sports car.
hahithestevieboy said:
The way I read it, I think the tesla cars will be only a side show to show up the other manufacturers when necessary and to drive the transition away from internal combustion. What they really want to do is own charging infrastructure (selling elec at exorbitant prices) and to become the defacto tier 1 supplier of batteries and drivetrains to a large chunk of the worldwide car industry.
Depends how long it takes the entrenched to get to real volume of proper electric cars, not just some lame duck e-version of existing designs. Seems like Tesla will have the chance to scale up to a few million per year so while they're never going to be Toyota I expect they will stick around as a modest yet 'proper' OEM.
They aren't interested in milking consumers for elec supply, most of the existing models are being sold with free charging forever.
SpeedyDave said:
Tesla are actively inviting the old guard to join them in the electric market, to the point of open sourcing their patents;
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our-patent-are...
Their stated goal is to accelerate the advent of electric cars. They are already providing powertrains to Merc (Smart, B class) and Toyota (Rav4)
The big brands are making sod all effort in this direction, easily seen by what is happening in battery production. Even the modest volume of cars Tesla are trying to scale to over the next few years would consume *all* of the world's Li battery production for all electronics.
Obviously we still want to have smartphones so that wont work, hence Tesla having broken ground on the 'Gigafactory' in Nevada which will ultimately produce several times more batteries than current total global supply.
No one else is showing any signs of tackling this issue yet. Even if the majors aggressively pursue electric cars now it will take a good few years to get the required production moving. They also need to deal with building the charging infrastructure, something Tesla are already getting on with.
If we're dismissing Musk as just 'the PayPal guy' (something he hasn't been involved with for > 10years) you'll also have to acknowledge his building an aerospace company from scratch. SpaceX now a multi billion $ company doing regular launch for commercial & govt.
Put in the opposite direction - how would you feel about going to the ISS on a Ford rocket?
Tesla are tiny. Annual global car production is 80M vs Tesla 0.03M & aiming to grow to 0.5M in a few years.
That said a company worth 10's of billions with a very committed & driven leader, and some years ahead of the old guys on both tech and necessary production isn't going to disappear.
Yep, I'm aware of them opening up their patents and I disagree with nothing you have said.http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our-patent-are...
Their stated goal is to accelerate the advent of electric cars. They are already providing powertrains to Merc (Smart, B class) and Toyota (Rav4)
The big brands are making sod all effort in this direction, easily seen by what is happening in battery production. Even the modest volume of cars Tesla are trying to scale to over the next few years would consume *all* of the world's Li battery production for all electronics.
Obviously we still want to have smartphones so that wont work, hence Tesla having broken ground on the 'Gigafactory' in Nevada which will ultimately produce several times more batteries than current total global supply.
No one else is showing any signs of tackling this issue yet. Even if the majors aggressively pursue electric cars now it will take a good few years to get the required production moving. They also need to deal with building the charging infrastructure, something Tesla are already getting on with.
If we're dismissing Musk as just 'the PayPal guy' (something he hasn't been involved with for > 10years) you'll also have to acknowledge his building an aerospace company from scratch. SpaceX now a multi billion $ company doing regular launch for commercial & govt.
Put in the opposite direction - how would you feel about going to the ISS on a Ford rocket?
Tesla are tiny. Annual global car production is 80M vs Tesla 0.03M & aiming to grow to 0.5M in a few years.
That said a company worth 10's of billions with a very committed & driven leader, and some years ahead of the old guys on both tech and necessary production isn't going to disappear.
Tesla will however end up a niche offering when the big boys decide to begin playing properly.
I went to the Tesla store opening in Knutsford last week, I went in with a very closed/negative view of EV and left with a much more positive view of EV specifically Tesla.
The car they had there was very well put together, and brimming with tech. They have a number of supercharger stations around the UK which are free to use and home charging as has been said is roughly £10-12 empty to full.
Other "cheaper" models are in the pipeline also.
The car they had there was very well put together, and brimming with tech. They have a number of supercharger stations around the UK which are free to use and home charging as has been said is roughly £10-12 empty to full.
Other "cheaper" models are in the pipeline also.
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