Another cyclist dies in London
Discussion
grumpy52 said:
Just some thoughts from someone who drives a truck in London fairly regularly.
Cyclists are not capable of stopping in an emergency .(they crash)
Why no mirrors (nobody else matters)
Red lights don't apply to them .
One way streets don't apply to them .
They don't put their own safety first .
They never do anything wrong .
And the vehicle that I saw blatantly jump a red light in Victoria St SW1 about 2 hours ago was ...... a truck. More specifically a waste truck. You'd have thought them lot would've learned by now. I wish I could remember the company name on the back ...... 3 initials.Cyclists are not capable of stopping in an emergency .(they crash)
Why no mirrors (nobody else matters)
Red lights don't apply to them .
One way streets don't apply to them .
They don't put their own safety first .
They never do anything wrong .
Randy Winkman said:
And the vehicle that I saw blatantly jump a red light in Victoria St SW1 about 2 hours ago was ...... a truck. More specifically a waste truck. You'd have thought them lot would've learned by now. I wish I could remember the company name on the back ...... 3 initials.
There are those who quickly dive through a fresh red and then there are those who don't care that their is a red.How long it has been red means nothing to them.I'll take a nanosecond after the red cheeky jump over weaving through crossing pedestrians, trying to find a suitable gap whilst making them stop dead in their tracks any day.
Digby said:
Randy Winkman said:
And the vehicle that I saw blatantly jump a red light in Victoria St SW1 about 2 hours ago was ...... a truck. More specifically a waste truck. You'd have thought them lot would've learned by now. I wish I could remember the company name on the back ...... 3 initials.
There are those who quickly dive through a fresh red and then there are those who don't care that their is a red.How long it has been red means nothing to them.I'll take a nanosecond after the red cheeky jump over weaving through crossing pedestrians, trying to find a suitable gap whilst making them stop dead in their tracks any day.
This isn't going to be a popular opinion among some, but a major contributing factor is the skill/ability of the average London cyclist.
Before I go any further, hear me out. I'm a cyclist, and a keen one at that - I often commute across Z1 by bike, I was once a Critical Mass regular, and have done the Surrey/London 100 and London-Brighton on my fixie for charity.
However, I also live in Central London, and thus get exposed to some of the worst of London cycling. Within 200yds of my flat, on a fairly major/arterial North-South cycle route (supported by a bus lane), there are two spots where cyclists' behaviour beggars belief.
1) An area of congestion approaching traffic lights. When lanes are blocked, it's common practice for cyclists to mount the kerb and cycle 200yds along the pavement, through a crowded bus-stop. After 200yds, I find great 'amusement' in watching these same cyclists rejoining the carriageway in front of moving traffic - most without so much as a look over their shoulder, and some with a wobbling/last-minute stop after almost riding under a bus/truck.
2) A busy, traffic-light controlled crossroads. It is entirely normal practice for cyclist to zip along the left-turn lane (rather than their dedicated lane), and merge into moving traffic (buses, lorries) at the last minute, at a pinch-point. More often than not, requiring drivers to brake/avoid with little notice.
You might think I'm exaggerating, or that this is confined to a small number of cyclists. I'm really not.
It's not just the lycra warriors, the fixie hipsters, the suits on Boris Bikes or the nervous girlies - it's everyone, and that's the problem.
Cyclists of all types are persistently, wilfully neglecting their own safety.
Until we can provide a system and process that legislates for the average London cyclist (and below), cyclists will continue to do this, making other road users' lives a misery.
I don't doubt that there are other factors at play here, but until cyclists are able to behave like they are the most vulnerable users on the road, sad accidents will continue to happen.
Before I go any further, hear me out. I'm a cyclist, and a keen one at that - I often commute across Z1 by bike, I was once a Critical Mass regular, and have done the Surrey/London 100 and London-Brighton on my fixie for charity.
However, I also live in Central London, and thus get exposed to some of the worst of London cycling. Within 200yds of my flat, on a fairly major/arterial North-South cycle route (supported by a bus lane), there are two spots where cyclists' behaviour beggars belief.
1) An area of congestion approaching traffic lights. When lanes are blocked, it's common practice for cyclists to mount the kerb and cycle 200yds along the pavement, through a crowded bus-stop. After 200yds, I find great 'amusement' in watching these same cyclists rejoining the carriageway in front of moving traffic - most without so much as a look over their shoulder, and some with a wobbling/last-minute stop after almost riding under a bus/truck.
2) A busy, traffic-light controlled crossroads. It is entirely normal practice for cyclist to zip along the left-turn lane (rather than their dedicated lane), and merge into moving traffic (buses, lorries) at the last minute, at a pinch-point. More often than not, requiring drivers to brake/avoid with little notice.
You might think I'm exaggerating, or that this is confined to a small number of cyclists. I'm really not.
It's not just the lycra warriors, the fixie hipsters, the suits on Boris Bikes or the nervous girlies - it's everyone, and that's the problem.
Cyclists of all types are persistently, wilfully neglecting their own safety.
Until we can provide a system and process that legislates for the average London cyclist (and below), cyclists will continue to do this, making other road users' lives a misery.
I don't doubt that there are other factors at play here, but until cyclists are able to behave like they are the most vulnerable users on the road, sad accidents will continue to happen.
Edited by Dave200 on Wednesday 3rd June 09:56
Edited by Dave200 on Wednesday 3rd June 09:57
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Why hold cyclists to a higher standard than other road users? I'm fully in favour of those things as long as they are applied to motor vehicles as well. At the end of the day a bad cyclist is only really a danger to themselves. Bad motorists are a danger to all around them.Did anyone see "An Hour to Save Your Life" on BBC2 last night?
One of the cases was the the German girl who got killed by a Tipper Truck at Ludgate Circus last year. If you don't want to see the result of cyclist getting run over by a lorry, don't watch it.
Very sobering and just shows how vulnerable cyclists are. Watching the paramedics and the trauma team battling to save her brought me to tears. The paramedic on the scene even resorted to open heart massage in a desperate bid to keep her alive.
The poor girl lived another 3 days but never regained consciousness.
Drivers and riders, just be careful out there.
One of the cases was the the German girl who got killed by a Tipper Truck at Ludgate Circus last year. If you don't want to see the result of cyclist getting run over by a lorry, don't watch it.
Very sobering and just shows how vulnerable cyclists are. Watching the paramedics and the trauma team battling to save her brought me to tears. The paramedic on the scene even resorted to open heart massage in a desperate bid to keep her alive.
The poor girl lived another 3 days but never regained consciousness.
Drivers and riders, just be careful out there.
heebeegeetee said:
It must be frustrating to be told to obey the HC by someone who doesn't.
That is how every cyclist feels when morons on PH insist that we stick to the rules because otherwise we are not worthy of them taking care around us.Not only is it one set of rules for them and one for us but also it is apparently their job to "educate" us.
Dave200 said:
This isn't going to be a popular opinion among some, but a major contributing factor is the skill/ability of the average London cyclist.
Before I go any further, hear me out. I'm a cyclist, and a keen one at that - I often commute across Z1 by bike, I was once a Critical Mass regular, and have done the Surrey/London 100 and London-Brighton on my fixie for charity.
However, I also live in Central London, and thus get exposed to some of the worst of London cycling. Within 200yds of my flat, on a fairly major/arterial North-South cycle route (supported by a bus lane), there are two spots where cyclists' behaviour beggars belief.
1) An area of congestion approaching traffic lights. When lanes are blocked, it's common practice for cyclists to mount the kerb and cycle 200yds along the pavement, through a crowded bus-stop. After 200yds, I find great 'amusement' in watching these same cyclists rejoining the carriageway in front of moving traffic - most without so much as a look over their shoulder, and some with a wobbling/last-minute stop after almost riding under a bus/truck.
2) A busy, traffic-light controlled crossroads. It is entirely normal practice for cyclist to zip along the left-turn lane (rather than their dedicated lane), and merge into moving traffic (buses, lorries) at the last minute, at a pinch-point. More often than not, requiring drivers to brake/avoid with little notice.
You might think I'm exaggerating, or that this is confined to a small number of cyclists. I'm really not.
It's not just the lycra warriors, the fixie hipsters, the suits on Boris Bikes or the nervous girlies - it's everyone, and that's the problem.
Cyclists of all types are persistently, wilfully neglecting their own safety.
Until we can provide a system and process that legislates for the average London cyclist (and below), cyclists will continue to do this, making other road users' lives a misery.
I don't doubt that there are other factors at play here, but until cyclists are able to behave like they are the most vulnerable users on the road, sad accidents will continue to happen.
I suffer this every morning on the Clapham through Stockwell to Elephant and Castle route. Before I go any further, hear me out. I'm a cyclist, and a keen one at that - I often commute across Z1 by bike, I was once a Critical Mass regular, and have done the Surrey/London 100 and London-Brighton on my fixie for charity.
However, I also live in Central London, and thus get exposed to some of the worst of London cycling. Within 200yds of my flat, on a fairly major/arterial North-South cycle route (supported by a bus lane), there are two spots where cyclists' behaviour beggars belief.
1) An area of congestion approaching traffic lights. When lanes are blocked, it's common practice for cyclists to mount the kerb and cycle 200yds along the pavement, through a crowded bus-stop. After 200yds, I find great 'amusement' in watching these same cyclists rejoining the carriageway in front of moving traffic - most without so much as a look over their shoulder, and some with a wobbling/last-minute stop after almost riding under a bus/truck.
2) A busy, traffic-light controlled crossroads. It is entirely normal practice for cyclist to zip along the left-turn lane (rather than their dedicated lane), and merge into moving traffic (buses, lorries) at the last minute, at a pinch-point. More often than not, requiring drivers to brake/avoid with little notice.
You might think I'm exaggerating, or that this is confined to a small number of cyclists. I'm really not.
It's not just the lycra warriors, the fixie hipsters, the suits on Boris Bikes or the nervous girlies - it's everyone, and that's the problem.
Cyclists of all types are persistently, wilfully neglecting their own safety.
Until we can provide a system and process that legislates for the average London cyclist (and below), cyclists will continue to do this, making other road users' lives a misery.
I don't doubt that there are other factors at play here, but until cyclists are able to behave like they are the most vulnerable users on the road, sad accidents will continue to happen.
Edited by Dave200 on Wednesday 3rd June 09:56
Edited by Dave200 on Wednesday 3rd June 09:57
Aside from the problems above, the biggest issue is that the majority pull out constantly without bothering to do any kind of lifesaver check. Mind-boggling. I really can't fathom why this is the case - a complete lack of self-preservation or simply arrogance in expecting everyone else to take responsibility for their actions. And again, it is all of them - the fixie beards, club shirts, beginners.
That said, pedestrians are almost as bad, sauntering into traffic staring at phones.
Mr Will said:
Why hold cyclists to a higher standard than other road users? I'm fully in favour of those things as long as they are applied to motor vehicles as well. At the end of the day a bad cyclist is only really a danger to themselves. Bad motorists are a danger to all around them.
That's a bit simplistic. Leaving aside the collisions between cyclists and pedestrians (which happen but I don't think are that common) then cyclists aren't physically a danger to other road users - but a driver still has to live with the death of a cyclist if they end up under the wheels because they're not observing the rules of the road.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Buy why feel the need to say it at all? Today nigh on 500 people will be killed or injured on the roads, as they are every day. The vast majority will be in accident with a motorised vehicle. The vast majority will not involve a bicycle.
What is the big issue with cyclists on this site, when they do so little harm? Shouldn't we be concentrating on ourselves, the motorist?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'm fully in favour of those things as long as they are applied to motor vehicles as well.
I'm merely pointing out that they already are. The more "it's everyone else's fault" bulls
t that gets spouted the more resistance there will be to cyclists (though the increase in numbers is inevitable for myriad reasons). Road design aside (which is changing but it's a slow process and won't happen overnight), do you believe that cyclists bear no responsibility / no duty of care for themselves and that it's everyone else's job to look after them?
Just to be absolutely clear - I AGREE THAT MOTORISTS NEED TO TAKE MORE CARE TOO.
TL;DR
Righteousness won't save you from an early grave.
My issue is one of focus. You have a group that are supposedly trained, licensed and insured who are regularly killing and injuring high numbers of cyclists, pedestrians and other motorists. They are judged to be at fault in the majority of collisions. Yet your suggested solution is that cyclists just need to get better at dodging?
If you think that's the most effective solution to this problem then I suggest you think again.
(just to be extremely clear - I am pro-cycle training and I acknowledge that cyclists need to take responsibility for their safety and actions but when people try to spout "It's all the cyclists fault" then I will do my best to expose it as the bulls
t that it is)heebeegeetee said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Buy why feel the need to say it at all? Today nigh on 500 people will be killed or injured on the roads, as they are every day. The vast majority will be in accident with a motorised vehicle. The vast majority will not involve a bicycle.
What is the big issue with cyclists on this site, when they do so little harm? Shouldn't we be concentrating on ourselves, the motorist?
I also agree that motorists should look out for and try wherever possible not to collide with other road users.
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