Another cyclist dies in London

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gazza285

9,779 posts

207 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
Why would I pay £80 for insurance, what brought you to that figure?

As for the raised pavements, I've already explained why they wouldn't work.

Side skirts on skip and tipper lorries would be a better start than a massive and useless pavement building campaign.

Europa1

10,923 posts

187 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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ZX10R NIN said:
v12Legs said:
ZX10R NIN said:
How many Motorcyclists have been killed on London's roads in the last year? I don't see motorcyclists asking for other vehicles to be banned. The answer to the first question is 27 compared to 17 cyclists all lives are important but this has to be looked at logically not emotionally.

It doesn't matter, it's not the number that have been killed it's the fact that both have to use the road, & you can't ban either as they're both needed.

I feel all cycle lanes should be raised to pavement level that way the cyclist doesn't have to interact with all motor vehicles.

When reaching junctions cyclists should cross like pedestrians (this would be on the grounds of safety) that way lessening the chance of serious injury or death.

Cyclists commuting everyday should have insurance capped to a maximum of £80.00 per year, this gives the cyclist legal cover should he or she be injured, bike damaged or if they happen to damage a vehicle knock over a pedestrian etc they just give their details & everyone can be on their way.

These are just suggestions but I feel they are a logical way of improving road safety & more importantly these are things that can be done quickly & not at great cost to us the Tax Payer.
You want us to stop at every junction, get off, and wheel the bike across on the pedestrian phase?
ps off.
Yes why wouldn't you? I've read (quite a few times on this thread)how cyclists feel intimidated by trucks & buses at junctions, it seems that most of the fatalities are happening at junctions, this is a quick & simple way of lessening (Time Exposed to Danger) the chance of a fatality.

By the way no need to swear, state an opinion by all means but why be abusive it gives the impression you have nothing constructive to say which I'm sure isn't the case.
The swearing does rather reinforce the stereotype of the belligerent, militant cyclist. I'm not saying that there isn't a stereotype "car is king" type motorist, but that sort of response is only going to raise temperatures and encourage people to entrench their views rather than engage in open minded discussion about the best way to address what is an incredibly difficult practical issue.

aclivity

4,072 posts

187 months

The Vambo

6,643 posts

140 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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aclivity said:
Good news, although considering that LGV's covered 8 Billion miles in London and the SE in 2012, that would seem like a pretty high level of compliance.

oyster

12,577 posts

247 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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The Vambo said:
v12Legs said:
You want us to stop at every junction, get off, and wheel the bike across on the pedestrian phase?
ps off.
You want to play the game of the red light being optional?

Probably not, me neither. There is NO good reason for deliberately jumping a red light.

I await the whataboutery.
Parrot needed for Vambo

Rolls

1,502 posts

176 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
There is one tiny flaw with the cycle lane @ pedestrian level..
Just how many cycle lanes do you guys think there are? (genuine question)

It comes down to fkwittery on both sides.. cyclists / car /lorry /bus drivers etc..If everyone was a little more considerate, and thought about their actions for even half a second most of these issues would cease to exist.. It comes down to everyone being selfish (and to a lesser extent uneducated in the ways (read dangers) of the road).. C'est la vie..

oyster

12,577 posts

247 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
Gaz. said:
v12Legs said:
You want us to stop at every junction, get off, and wheel the bike across on the pedestrian phase?
ps off.
Ah, the pleasant, charming cyclist.
It's an understandable response, if a little rude.

It's a response to a post (amongst many on PH) which suggests that the most vulnerable road users should be the ones changing their behaviour rather than the ones most liable to cause damage.

Fortunately the authorities don't see it the same way.

Much as people may kick and scream there will be more restrictions placed on motor vehicles in the UK and in urban environments especially. Pedestrians, bus users and cyclists (and to some level motorcyclists) will be given priority at the expense of cars and lorries. Live with it. Or vote against it (though good luck with that given that there is cross-party support for cycling and walking).

surveyor

17,767 posts

183 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
oyster said:
Gaz. said:
v12Legs said:
You want us to stop at every junction, get off, and wheel the bike across on the pedestrian phase?
ps off.
Ah, the pleasant, charming cyclist.
It's an understandable response, if a little rude.

It's a response to a post (amongst many on PH) which suggests that the most vulnerable road users should be the ones changing their behaviour rather than the ones most liable to cause damage.

Fortunately the authorities don't see it the same way.

Much as people may kick and scream there will be more restrictions placed on motor vehicles in the UK and in urban environments especially. Pedestrians, bus users and cyclists (and to some level motorcyclists) will be given priority at the expense of cars and lorries. Live with it. Or vote against it (though good luck with that given that there is cross-party support for cycling and walking).
I find the cyclists reluctance to not put themselves beside big and heavy vehicles bizarre. It seems many are happy being in the Right. And Dead.

v12Legs

313 posts

114 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
The Vambo said:
You want to play the game of the red light being optional?

Probably not, me neither. There is NO good reason for deliberately jumping a red light.

I await the whataboutery.
I said nothing about red lights.
My response was to the ridiculous suggestion that cyclists be forced to dismount at every junction.

You response might be similar if I suggested you get out of your car and push it across every junction.

glasgowrob

3,232 posts

120 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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cyclists need to remember a very valuable lesson


it doesn't matter how right you are when a hgv runs over your napper your still dead


same goes for car drivers and any form of road user. if its bigger than you your going to get hurt.

FourWheelDrift

88,375 posts

283 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
I've been going in and out of Oxford the last few weeks and the number of poorly lit cyclists ignoring basic road rules was astonishing, no signals, pulling straight out from side roads without looking, ignoring zebra crossings, trying to squeeze in between the pavement and buses at traffic lights with no idea if the bus is then turning left. If you use the road you must take a test of some sort, I'm sure most of these ones don't drive and therefore have taken no road tests of any kind. When I was at school we had cycling proficiency tests and I think they should be compulsory to all if you intend to cycle on the roads, you don't need to spend millions changing roads or trucks, just a bit of cheap education is all that's needed. Awareness and defensive cycling.

budgie smuggler

5,359 posts

158 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
surveyor said:
I find the cyclists reluctance to not put themselves beside big and heavy vehicles bizarre. It seems many are happy being in the Right. And Dead.
Or more likely they are ignorant of how dangerous it is, and the terrible road/cycle lane design encourages them to ride there.

v12Legs

313 posts

114 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
I apologise for saying "ps off"

However, the idea that cyclists should dismount at every junction is both offensive and ridiculous.
We are already treated like second-class road users, and this suggestion is victim-blaming drivel.

surveyor

17,767 posts

183 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
budgie smuggler said:
surveyor said:
I find the cyclists reluctance to not put themselves beside big and heavy vehicles bizarre. It seems many are happy being in the Right. And Dead.
Or more likely they are ignorant of how dangerous it is, and the terrible road/cycle lane design encourages them to ride there.
If they can't recognise the lorry to their right and the risk that it entails they do not belong on a bike.

The Vambo

6,643 posts

140 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
FourWheelDrift said:
just a bit of cheap education is all that's needed.
clap

Unlike the drivers, with their ever evolving and continually more stringent testing, the militant cyclists just wont have it.


v12Legs

313 posts

114 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
Gaz. said:
It's an expected response from someone with a camera on their head and a youtube account. I'd have just said no thanks. We are responsible for ourselves and sometimes we have to change our behaviours to account for idiots and if that means at certain junctions I may choose to get off and lose a bit of time then so be it, it isn't the end of the world. It shouldn't be the case but I am damned if I am going to sit in a wheelchair and tell anyone who listens that I had right of way. I already have a lifetime spinal injury because of some dozy OAP not giving way, being technically or legally in the right doesn't take away the constant pain nor does any amount of compensation or insurance pay outs either.
Choosing to get off is one thing, and there may well be some junctions where that is, unfortunately, something a cyclist might choose to do.

But ZX10R NIN was suggesting all cyclists be forced to do that at all junctions. A rather different proposition.

AyBee

10,522 posts

201 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
ZX10R NIN said:
I feel all cycle lanes should be raised to pavement level that way the cyclist doesn't have to interact with all motor vehicles.

When reaching junctions cyclists should cross like pedestrians (this would be on the grounds of safety) that way lessening the chance of serious injury or death.
rofl Oh, you're serious.
ZX10R NIN said:
Cyclists commuting everyday should have insurance capped to a maximum of £80.00 per year, this gives the cyclist legal cover should he or she be injured, bike damaged or if they happen to damage a vehicle knock over a pedestrian etc they just give their details & everyone can be on their way.
Some of us already have this and it's much cheaper than £80!! If I knock over a pedestrian, (s)he was in the road and not paying attention, is pedestrian insurance mandatory also?
ZX10R NIN said:
These are just suggestions but I feel they are a logical way of improving road safety & more importantly these are things that can be done quickly & not at great cost to us the Tax Payer.
Yes, they're suggestions, but ridiculous ones that will never work. I have as much right to be on the road as you do in your car or on your motorbike!

shalmaneser

5,930 posts

194 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
S. Gonzales Esq. said:
An aware cyclist, filming some that aren't being so careful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leW8Mx1GciE
I cycle to work daily (well 4 out of 5 this week!) and I see this constantly. People DO need to take responsibility for their actions but equally truck drivers also need to accept that this will happen and that they are ultimately in control of a very dangerous vehicle.

As ever there is 'blame' on both sides but the costs are so much less for the truck driver that they need to be incentivised to ensure extra care.

There is a large refuse company on our industrial estate so constant skip trucks driving back and forth at breakneck speeds. We were joking during lunch a few days ago about how many people they squash.



heebeegeetee

28,591 posts

247 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
shalmaneser said:
but equally truck drivers also need to accept that this will happen
Do they have any choice?

ZX10R NIN

27,490 posts

124 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
oyster said:
It's an understandable response, if a little rude.

It's a response to a post (amongst many on PH) which suggests that the most vulnerable road users should be the ones changing their behaviour rather than the ones most liable to cause damage.

Fortunately the authorities don't see it the same way.

Much as people may kick and scream there will be more restrictions placed on motor vehicles in the UK and in urban environments especially. Pedestrians, bus users and cyclists (and to some level motorcyclists) will be given priority at the expense of cars and lorries. Live with it. Or vote against it (though good luck with that given that there is cross-party support for cycling and walking).
The most Vulnerable are MOTORCYCLISTS I don't see road layouts being changed for them??

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