Another cyclist dies in London
Discussion
SlimJim16v said:
Motorist goes through red light, gets hit by car, claims on insurance.
Cyclist goes through red light, gets hit by car, has a ride on an ambulance.
Which one's the stupidest
?
The cyclist obviously as if he/she was a bit brighter he/she would have a better job and could afford a car. HTH Cyclist goes through red light, gets hit by car, has a ride on an ambulance.
Which one's the stupidest
?
WinstonWolf said:
SlimJim16v said:
Motorist goes through red light, gets hit by car, claims on insurance.
Cyclist goes through red light, gets hit by car, has a ride on an ambulance.
Which one's the stupidest?
They're both equally stupid. That's the point I keep trying to make, it isn't the mode of transport it's the person using it Cyclist goes through red light, gets hit by car, has a ride on an ambulance.
Which one's the stupidest
?
Mave said:
The people posting the incidents, asking what can / should be done, pointing the fingers are not the cyclists.
Really?http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-389449...
Many are holding signs saying "stop killing cyclists". If that doesn't count as finger pointing......
Mave said:
Ok, maybe some, but not most.
I remember several from similar threads and I would assume these are the types of riders who recognise the issues; the types of riders I see berating other riders on the street when they ride akin to those in the earlier video.I'm simply frustrated that whilst we all know we have idiot drivers, so much more can be done to avoid them and avoid incident.
I know idiot drivers exist and I avoid incidents with them regularly when in my car or works vehicle.
On a bike, I am even more vigilant.
The previous clips posted are perfect examples.
Slow for the chance the cars may turn = no crash.
Don't sit so close to other riders and look over your shoulder now and again = no crash.
Hold back and wait for the HGV like the rider behind = no death.
See a rider stopped waiting for a car to turn = don't ride in front of the car!
We can discuss bad habits of all roads users, of course, but due to their size, cyclists invariably end up taking chances other road users cannot and either due to risk taking or a lack of knowledge, always come off worse when things go wrong.
My focus is primarily towards riders as there is every chance, no matter what we have to go through and no matter how well equipped the vehicles, it could one day be me posting here suggesting I have killed someone.
Of all the HGV drivers I know, most hate London. They choose, more often than not, to blame cyclists for their hatred but the reality is they are scared of what may happen.
In the clip I posted earlier, just a fraction of a turn during half a second of motion could have killed a few of those riders.
On a bike, you may get the luxury of thinking "I bet this t
t pulls out" or "I bet he doesn't see me" etc (not in all cases, I know, but in many) In an HGV, you are often doing all you can, all of the time, with all of your training and all of your mirrors and all of your technology and.....it still won't be enough.
Every day you think "today could be the day".
I would love it not to be that way and having talked to someone who did kill a rider, I know, like him, the guilt for me would be unbearable.
Edited by Digby on Wednesday 1st March 23:56
Mave said:
Rolleyes? Let's go back a step.
I said we needed to address both cyclist and motorist driving. Everyone. Not just cyclists, or motorists, or HGVs, but everyone.
And I agree with that and even gave an extensive list of things that are being done to address motorists behaviour. I didn't suggest the list was exhaustive or the methods perfect - but things are being done.I said we needed to address both cyclist and motorist driving. Everyone. Not just cyclists, or motorists, or HGVs, but everyone.
I then asked what is being done to address cyclist behaviour - and you completely ignored the question, choosing instead to deflect the discussion back to the motorist.
in essence the mistake cyclists make is to avoidably put their welfare in the hands of other road-users around them-and therefore depend on the diligence of those car/van/truck drivers for their own safety.
going up the side of trucks setting off from traffic-lights is a glaring example of this almost suicidal lack of awareness of the dangers.
a comparable situ. when driving a car is entering a 2-lane roundabout at the same time as a car next to you-you are then relying on them not to bang into you when they absent-mindedly decide to straighten the road out or somesuch-but a driver with some sense of self-preservation will foresee this and usually try and avoid being side-by-side with another car on a roundabout- potential conflict avoided.
going up the side of trucks setting off from traffic-lights is a glaring example of this almost suicidal lack of awareness of the dangers.
a comparable situ. when driving a car is entering a 2-lane roundabout at the same time as a car next to you-you are then relying on them not to bang into you when they absent-mindedly decide to straighten the road out or somesuch-but a driver with some sense of self-preservation will foresee this and usually try and avoid being side-by-side with another car on a roundabout- potential conflict avoided.
Moonhawk said:
Mave said:
The people posting the incidents, asking what can / should be done, pointing the fingers are not the cyclists.
Really?http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-389449...
Many are holding signs saying "stop killing cyclists". If that doesn't count as finger pointing......
Edited by Mave on Thursday 2nd March 07:13
Moonhawk said:
Mave said:
Rolleyes? Let's go back a step.
I said we needed to address both cyclist and motorist driving. Everyone. Not just cyclists, or motorists, or HGVs, but everyone.
And I agree with that and even gave an extensive list of things that are being done to address motorists behaviour. I didn't suggest the list was exhaustive or the methods perfect - but things are being done.I said we needed to address both cyclist and motorist driving. Everyone. Not just cyclists, or motorists, or HGVs, but everyone.
I then asked what is being done to address cyclist behaviour - and you completely ignored the question, choosing instead to deflect the discussion back to the motorist.
So, to answer your question, cyclists have to follow the highway code, are recommended to wear high viz and helmets, and there are stickers on lorries telling them not to go down the inside.
Now, what are we going to do about mororists?
Mave said:
So, to answer your question, cyclists have to follow the highway code, are recommended to wear high viz and helmets, and there are stickers on lorries telling them not to go down the inside.
cyclists have to follow the highway code : LOLare recommended to wear high viz and helmets: LOL
and there are stickers on lorries telling them not to go down the inside : LOL
Cheers, like coffee in the morning
Digby said:
Mave said:
Ok, maybe some, but not most.
I remember several from similar threads and I would assume these are the types of riders who recognise the issues; the types of riders I see berating other riders on the street when they ride akin to those in the earlier video.I'm simply frustrated that whilst we all know we have idiot drivers, so much more can be done to avoid them and avoid incident.
I know idiot drivers exist and I avoid incidents with them regularly when in my car or works vehicle.
On a bike, I am even more vigilant.
The previous clips posted are perfect examples.
Slow for the chance the cars may turn = no crash.
Don't sit so close to other riders and look over your shoulder now and again = no crash.
Hold back and wait for the HGV like the rider behind = no death.
See a rider stopped waiting for a car to turn = don't ride in front of the car!
We can discuss bad habits of all roads users, of course, but due to their size, cyclists invariably end up taking chances other road users cannot and either due to risk taking or a lack of knowledge, always come off worse when things go wrong.
My focus is primarily towards riders as there is every chance, no matter what we have to go through and no matter how well equipped the vehicles, it could one day be me posting here suggesting I have killed someone.
Of all the HGV drivers I know, most hate London. They choose, more often than not, to blame cyclists for their hatred but the reality is they are scared of what may happen.
In the clip I posted earlier, just a fraction of a turn during half a second of motion could have killed a few of those riders.
On a bike, you may get the luxury of thinking "I bet this t
t pulls out" or "I bet he doesn't see me" etc (not in all cases, I know, but in many) In an HGV, you are often doing all you can, all of the time, with all of your training and all of your mirrors and all of your technology and.....it still won't be enough.
Every day you think "today could be the day".
I would love it not to be that way and having talked to someone who did kill a rider, I know, like him, the guilt for me would be unbearable.
Edited by Digby on Wednesday 1st March 23:56
Mave said:
I ignored the question because to answer it would imply I agreed with your earlier answer, which I don't.
So, to answer your question, cyclists have to follow the highway code, are recommended to wear high viz and helmets, and there are stickers on lorries telling them not to go down the inside.
Now, what are we going to do about mororists?
Cyclists do have to follow the highway code and should follow the recommendations therein, like motorists. So, to answer your question, cyclists have to follow the highway code, are recommended to wear high viz and helmets, and there are stickers on lorries telling them not to go down the inside.
Now, what are we going to do about mororists?
However unlike motorists - there is no mandate for them to actually read it (hence my recommendation that HC and cycle training should be a mandatory subject at schools).
As for 'stickers on lorries'.........really!
Edited by Moonhawk on Thursday 2nd March 07:45
Stickyfinger said:
Mave said:
So, to answer your question, cyclists have to follow the highway code, are recommended to wear high viz and helmets, and there are stickers on lorries telling them not to go down the inside.
cyclists have to follow the highway code : LOLare recommended to wear high viz and helmets: LOL
and there are stickers on lorries telling them not to go down the inside : LOL
Cheers, like coffee in the morning
Moonhawk said:
Mave said:
I ignored the question because to answer it would imply I agreed with your earlier answer, which I don't.
So, to answer your question, cyclists have to follow the highway code, are recommended to wear high viz and helmets, and there are stickers on lorries telling them not to go down the inside.
Now, what are we going to do about mororists?
Cyclists do have to follow the highway code and should follow the recommendations therein, like motorists. So, to answer your question, cyclists have to follow the highway code, are recommended to wear high viz and helmets, and there are stickers on lorries telling them not to go down the inside.
Now, what are we going to do about mororists?
However unlike motorists - there is no mandate for them to actually read it (hence my recommendation that HC and cycle training should be a mandatory subject at schools).
As for 'stickers on lorries'.........really!
Mave said:
See what I did there? I answered your question and you still won't talk about what motorists can do differently. So who's deflecting the issue now?
What would you suggest can be done with regards to motorists - over and above all of the things I have already listed, plus all of the other things that are already in force which I didn't list? In addition to the list above, I have already spoken about road safety needing to be holistic and targeting all road users (including motorists) - so your assertion that I am avoiding discussing motorists is laughable.
You haven't really answered the question I posed to you though. Is high optional viz and stickers on lorries really the best you can come up with?
Why not make high viz, cycle helmets etc mandatory - with fines/penalties for non compliance. Why not make mobile phone use whilst in control of a bike illegal as it is for cars. Why not make HC education or cycle training mandatory?
Moonhawk said:
What would you suggest can be done with regards to motorists - over and above all of the things I have already listed, plus all of the other things that are already in force which I didn't list?
In addition to the list above, I have already spoken about road safety needing to be holistic and targeting all road users (including motorists) - so your assertion that I am avoiding discussing motorists is laughable.
Well, I've also talked previously about needing more public safety campaigns, so your assertion that I am avoiding discussing cyclists is equally laughable.In addition to the list above, I have already spoken about road safety needing to be holistic and targeting all road users (including motorists) - so your assertion that I am avoiding discussing motorists is laughable.
Moonhawk said:
You haven't really answered the question I posed to you though. Is high optional viz and stickers on lorries really the best you can come up with?
No, it was to illustrate a point. You didn't agree with my answer so you ignored my subsequent question. Which is exactly what I did previously, and you accused me of deflection.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff