Another cyclist dies in London

[Munter]

v12Legs said:

So why did you urge cyclists to not put themselves in that position, but not urge drivers to be more observant and not left hook cyclists? Why is the onus in your post completely on the cyclists to take all of the responsibility for avoiding being run over?

A cyclist can do everything 100% correctly and still get run over by a crap driver, so why are you only ever saying that it is the cyclist that needs to take all of the avoiding action?

So when the truck pulls up beside you and indicates left. You think the best way to deal with a crap driver is the carry on regardless because it's your right (to get crushed by a truck)? Not "Oh that's dodgy, I'll hop onto the pavement/push back behind it out of his way because otherwise I'll get crushed."

Just because there will always be crap drivers, doesn't mean the cyclist can't save their own skin.

[bishbosh66]

v12Legs said:

So why did you urge cyclists to not put themselves in that position, but not urge drivers to be more observant and not left hook cyclists? Why is the onus in your post completely on the cyclists to take all of the responsibility for avoiding being run over?

A cyclist can do everything 100% correctly and still get run over by a crap driver, so why are you only ever saying that it is the cyclist that needs to take all of the avoiding action?

I would imagine because cyclists are soft and squishy, and car/truck/buses etc are hard and solid.

[GC8]

v12Legs said:

GC8 said:

v12Legs said:

GC8 said:

Rubbish!

The problem is that the vehicles and cyclists are coming into contact. When this happens the vehicles are even more hazardous than other commercial vehicles.

The solution is to prevent their coming into contact, which is why I always urge cyclists to keep themselves out of situations where this is possible,

And for the umpteenth time, you (nor I) have absolutely no idea how many of these are caused by the cyclist putting themselves into that situation, and how many are due to "left hooks" or the driver's lack of correct observation.

For fk's sake! Are your posts a true reflection of your personality here?

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

There is no mention of blame in post! The reason that cyclists need to observe, to be aware and to ride defensively is to give themselves a chance where vehicle drivers ARE responsible.

So why did you urge cyclists to not put themselves in that position, but not urge drivers to be more observant and not left hook cyclists? Why is the onus in your post completely on the cyclists to take all of the responsibility for avoiding being run over?

A cyclist can do everything 100% correctly and still get run over by a crap driver, so why are you only ever saying that it is the cyclist that needs to take all of the avoiding action?

Mate: you're an idiot.

[v12Legs]

GC8 said:

Mate: you're an idiot.

How so?

Look, I will do everything I can to avoid getting squashed, as would the majority of cyclists.
If I was at lights and a vehicle pulled up next to me indicating left, I would make sure the driver had seen me, or if I couldn't I'd remove myself; either forwards or sideways.

However, we have seen in this thread a video where a cyclist doing nothing wrong was left hooked by a lorry.

It gets very galling when virtually all of the comments are directed at cyclists having to get out of the way, and hardly any at suggesting drivers avoid running people over.

A cyclist can do everything right and still get squashed by a crap driver.

[Munter]

v12Legs said:

How so?

Look, I will do everything I can to avoid getting squashed, as would the majority of cyclists.
If I was at lights and a vehicle pulled up next to me indicating left, I would make sure the driver had seen me, or if I couldn't I'd remove myself; either forwards or sideways.

However, we have seen in this thread a video where a cyclist doing nothing wrong was left hooked by a lorry.

It gets very galling when virtually all of the comments are directed at cyclists having to get out of the way, and hardly any at suggesting drivers avoid running people over.

A cyclist can do everything right and still get squashed by a crap driver.

And how do they know they are doing it right?

[Antony Moxey]

Munter said:

v12Legs said:

How so?

Look, I will do everything I can to avoid getting squashed, as would the majority of cyclists.
If I was at lights and a vehicle pulled up next to me indicating left, I would make sure the driver had seen me, or if I couldn't I'd remove myself; either forwards or sideways.

However, we have seen in this thread a video where a cyclist doing nothing wrong was left hooked by a lorry.

It gets very galling when virtually all of the comments are directed at cyclists having to get out of the way, and hardly any at suggesting drivers avoid running people over.

A cyclist can do everything right and still get squashed by a crap driver.

And how do they know they are doing it right?

He didn't say that, did he? He said that EVEN IF a cyclist did everything right he could still be killed by a poor driver.

[ZX10R NIN]

Munter said:

v12Legs said:

How so?

Look, I will do everything I can to avoid getting squashed, as would the majority of cyclists.
If I was at lights and a vehicle pulled up next to me indicating left, I would make sure the driver had seen me, or if I couldn't I'd remove myself; either forwards or sideways.

However, we have seen in this thread a video where a cyclist doing nothing wrong was left hooked by a lorry.

It gets very galling when virtually all of the comments are directed at cyclists having to get out of the way, and hardly any at suggesting drivers avoid running people over.

A cyclist can do everything right and still get squashed by a crap driver.

And how do they know they are doing it right?

They know because they've had training & have taken Hazard Perception tests etc, that you get when you take the cycle training course(which doesn't exist yet) that the Mayors promoting;)

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Friday 27th February 21:19

[Munter]

Antony Moxey said:

He didn't say that, did he? He said that EVEN IF a cyclist did everything right he could still be killed by a poor driver.

And I said. How do they know they are doing it right?

Have we asked the dead ones if they knew if they were doing it right?...oh no hang on we can't. Something about them being dead stops us.

Huh.

Perhaps we should try to ensure they ALL know if they are doing it right. Now 1/2 the people involved in the fatal accidents have definitely had some formal evaluation at least once.

And the other half....

[Mave]

ZX10R NIN said:

They know because they've had training & have taken Hazard Perception tests etc, that you get when you take the cycle training course(which doesn't exist yet) that the Mayors promoting;)

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Friday 27th February 21:19

So does training and taking tests mean you never get it wrong???

[Mave]

Munter said:

And I said. How do they know they are doing it right?

It doesn't matter. The construct of the argument was "if they were doing it right" not "if they knew (or thought) they were doing it right"

[ZX10R NIN]

Mave said:

So does training and taking tests mean you never get it wrong???

No it doesn't mean the Truck Driver always gets right but it doesn't mean they get it wrong either but at least they've been made aware of the perils of driving a Truck.

Why are cyclists so against some form of traning?

[IroningMan]

ZX10R NIN said:

No it doesn't mean the Truck Driver always gets right but it doesn't mean they get it wrong either but at least they've been made aware of the perils of driving a Truck.

Why are cyclists so against some form of traning?

The majority of adult cyclists have had at least as much training as the average driver - and have a driving licence to prove it.

[Mave]

ZX10R NIN said:

No it doesn't mean the Truck Driver always gets right but it doesn't mean they get it wrong either but at least they've been made aware of the perils of driving a Truck.

Why are cyclists so against some form of traning?

I'm absolutely, absolutely not against some form of training for cyclists, but it needs to be part of a larger strategy which also looks at how to stop drivers left hooking cyclists.

[Antony Moxey]

ZX10R NIN said:

Mave said:

So does training and taking tests mean you never get it wrong???

No it doesn't mean the Truck Driver always gets right but it doesn't mean they get it wrong either but at least they've been made aware of the perils of driving a Truck.

Why are cyclists so against some form of traning?

Probably because most cyclists are also likely to be truckers/car drivers/motorcyclists etc as well. I would guess that the number of cyclists who are purely cyclists is a minority.

[Munter]

Antony Moxey said:

Probably because most cyclists are also likely to be truckers/car drivers/motorcyclists etc as well. I would guess that the number of cyclists who are purely cyclists is a minority.

Cool I have a driving licence. So I should be able to fly a plane...

If a bike is exactly like a car. Why are car drivers not being crushed to death by trucks turning left in London?

[Mave]

Munter said:

Cool I have a driving licence. So I should be able to fly a plane...

If a bike is exactly like a car. Why are car drivers not being crushed to death by trucks turning left in London?

Because passing a car feels like an overtake, whereas passing a bike feels like driving along without realising you are / have overtaken someone?

[Antony Moxey]

Munter said:

Antony Moxey said:

Probably because most cyclists are also likely to be truckers/car drivers/motorcyclists etc as well. I would guess that the number of cyclists who are purely cyclists is a minority.

Cool I have a driving licence. So I should be able to fly a plane...

If a bike is exactly like a car. Why are car drivers not being crushed to death by trucks turning left in London?

Have a read back of what you've just written, and imagine it to be someone else writing it. Then have a go at seeing if you think they're a complete fking retard or not.

[gazza285]

Antony Moxey said:

Munter said:

Antony Moxey said:

Probably because most cyclists are also likely to be truckers/car drivers/motorcyclists etc as well. I would guess that the number of cyclists who are purely cyclists is a minority.

Cool I have a driving licence. So I should be able to fly a plane...

If a bike is exactly like a car. Why are car drivers not being crushed to death by trucks turning left in London?

Have a read back of what you've just written, and imagine it to be someone else writing it. Then have a go at seeing if you think they're a complete fking retard or not.

I vote for complete fking retard.

[carinaman]

Short discussion on technical solutions on Thursday:

http://services.parliament.uk/calendar/#!/calendar...

[The Vambo]

gazza285 said:

Antony Moxey said:

Munter said:

Antony Moxey said:

Probably because most cyclists are also likely to be truckers/car drivers/motorcyclists etc as well. I would guess that the number of cyclists who are purely cyclists is a minority.

Cool I have a driving licence. So I should be able to fly a plane...

If a bike is exactly like a car. Why are car drivers not being crushed to death by trucks turning left in London?

Have a read back of what you've just written, and imagine it to be someone else writing it. Then have a go at seeing if you think they're a complete fking retard or not.

I vote for complete fking retard.

Oooh, is this turning into the X Factor?

Ok then, I vote against the wee peloton who currently have their padded Lycra stuck up their ass and are getting quite grumpy.