RE: Focus RS breaks cover
Discussion
That is absolutely 4wd (internet expertise at its best!) the first few corners looked like lift of oversteer but the drift round the corner definately was done under power, it HAS to have all wheel drive!
The fact that Ford have deliberately shown of these exploits, they would never do this to build the hype when it would be such a let down (perceptively) when it rolls out in a fit of torque steer (tongue firmly in cheek)
The fact that Ford have deliberately shown of these exploits, they would never do this to build the hype when it would be such a let down (perceptively) when it rolls out in a fit of torque steer (tongue firmly in cheek)
To me it looks FWD in that video. As someone who has owned both a Mk1 and Mk2 RS, I won't be going anywhere near this one if it's not AWD. They got away with it with the Mk2, but it was quite compromised unless the road was bone dry and the performance hatch landscape has changed since 2009. FWD no longer cuts it at the top.
Ali_T said:
Wouldn't say a Focus RS is much better! It's a cheap shopping trolley with heavy tuning.
I would suggest that a Focus is fundamentally a better design and better built than a Mustang...ever been in/driven a recent Mustang?
A late Shelby is like a dragster with a tractor gearbox. Except you cant launch a Shelby as you will probably stall it.
(Valet at Yas Marina stalled my mates ten times)
Form over function.
micawrx said:
J4CKO said:
"Not a quality vehicle" ?
Because it is made in America, the Focus has some innate quality that Ford do not imbue the Mustang with ?
You do know Ford sell the Focus in the US and it is the same car save a few regional changes.
Focus with the 2.3 Turbo, the base model of the Mustang will be more expensive ?
Really, that was a load of nonsense wasn't it.
In your opinion J4CKO, which part was nonsense exactly?Because it is made in America, the Focus has some innate quality that Ford do not imbue the Mustang with ?
You do know Ford sell the Focus in the US and it is the same car save a few regional changes.
Focus with the 2.3 Turbo, the base model of the Mustang will be more expensive ?
Really, that was a load of nonsense wasn't it.
Do you think the development team of the Mustang and that of the Focus are the same?
The development effort in the Mustang has the same end goal as the focus?
How much have you had exposure to US built vehicles J4CKO?
Do you have enough experience or competence to comment?
Do you think the Focus RS is going to be sub 25k?
... or are you just a troll??
The development idea, is the same, give the punters what they want to sell more cars and make money, Ford don't put the dumb team on the Mustang, it needs to right, it will sell in hundreds if thousands, the RS is tiny volume by comparison
Focus will be more than 25 grand, just under thirty I reckon, depends on the drive layout, needs to be comparable with the Golf R , RS or not, it needs to sell to more than the RS faithful, who would buy it if it still had a CVH engine,.
J4CKO said:
Ford don't put the dumb team on the Mustang, it needs to right, it will sell in hundreds if thousands, the RS is tiny volume by comparison
Wow, whos talking nonsense now?Are you talking about 'Mustangs' compared to 'Focus RS's'
Not eggs for eggs are we.
Do you feel that the Top Spec Mustang 5.0 would outsell Top Spec Focus RS?
...or are you comparing Mustangs with Focuses?
The Focus would sell at least 50 to 1 over the Mustang in each case.
Edited by micawrx on Saturday 24th January 02:00
Escort Si-130 said:
Just like chavvy Porsche 911 Carrera 2 996, that your usual football stars go for.
stuckmojo said:
Unless one really needs the rear doors the Mustang is the ford to have. This competes with megane, seats and other chavs shopping trolleys isn't it?
I thought football stars were going for Bentleys only?
Now failed football stars might go for a Carrera 2 996, which is just about the cheapest 911 you can buy and shouts "poor man pretending to be rich" louder than an iPhone 6 in gold can.
Off topic, sorry.
Back on topic, the market for these cars has somewhat changed since the past RS was released. Ford must have made a mint out of these by making them FWD, as the blue oval fans would buy them no matter what. The first RS was a properly fun car, mind.
This one will have to stand up to scrutiny against the Golf R, S3, and the AMG even if cheaper. Otherwise why call it RS? There's the ST to pitch against the FWD lot.
Ultimately though, Ford are the masters when it comes to up-selling their brand. Remap the ST, change the wheels, interior trim, add some chicken fence at the front, prepare some tech slides about differentials and so on and it's sold. It makes perfect business sense.
The Mustang though, I really want that. Footballers will hate it.
edited for incomprehensible English. Hopefully comprehensible now.
Ali_T said:
CraigZR said:
I think to compete with the Golf R and A45 AMG it has to be awd. Im hoping the build an awd Fiesta RS, like a road going version of the R5 rally car.
Unless it's £40k, it's not an A45 rival. As the Leon Cupra 280 and Megane 265 have proved, FWD is usually a better drivers car than AWD and in the Cupra's case @ 20bhp down on the R is quicker around a track.
FWD with a proper diff is what I think it will be and I think it will benefit from this over AWD.
Looking at the Fiesta ST vs the rest of the models in that class, the Fiesta ST is underpowered, underpriced and yet still a big seller.
Current Focus ST is 250bhp, £21k, though underpowered and underpriced vs the Leon Cupra, Megane RS etc.
So i personally think this time round the Focus RS isnt gonna be aimed at the Leon and Megane etc. I reckon the Mk3 Focus RS will be circa 350bhp, 4x4, between the price of the two Mustangs (£29-£33k, mk2 FRS was £27995 around 5yrs ago), and it will be an underpowered and underpriced rival vs the A45AMG, RS3 and Golf R/R400
In the development of the mk2 FRS the head of Team RS (Jos Capito) claimed with the extra weight of the AWD system in a test mule mk2 FRS, it was 4secs slower round the 'ring and too costly to have it AWD!! Hence the mk2 FRS being FWD!!
NOW it is doable for Ford to make a Focus RS with AWD as the "financial budgets" for Team RS, Ford Racing and SVT, have all been integrated into this new single sub brand "Ford Performance"!! Also with the mk2 FRS it was solely a Team RS budget so materials etc where limited and also the mk1 FRS stopped half way through forecasted production, aa they couldnt get rid of them to the point each car was sold at a £4k a car loss. Ford globally are now making alot of emphasis on using a "trick" AWD system in the Kuga (mk3 focus based) and the Mondeo/Fusion ...and also the mk3 Focus in general is "supposedly" lighter than the mk2 Focus was. And also Ford have spoke about using some type of plastics in future models on body panels to keep the weight down etc.
So fact the RS is now also global performance car and has more of a "broader market" in a sense, it would be absolutely stupid for them to make it FWD. As a business case - keep it FWD and p
s off existing customers and turn away new ones.....or make it AWD and have the internet break, order books fill rapidly - and maybe cause such a demand production numbers would increase, and also cause an influx of new buyers to the market, who they more than likely lost when the mk2 FRS went FWD and the customer went elsewhere
Current Focus ST is 250bhp, £21k, though underpowered and underpriced vs the Leon Cupra, Megane RS etc.
So i personally think this time round the Focus RS isnt gonna be aimed at the Leon and Megane etc. I reckon the Mk3 Focus RS will be circa 350bhp, 4x4, between the price of the two Mustangs (£29-£33k, mk2 FRS was £27995 around 5yrs ago), and it will be an underpowered and underpriced rival vs the A45AMG, RS3 and Golf R/R400
In the development of the mk2 FRS the head of Team RS (Jos Capito) claimed with the extra weight of the AWD system in a test mule mk2 FRS, it was 4secs slower round the 'ring and too costly to have it AWD!! Hence the mk2 FRS being FWD!!
NOW it is doable for Ford to make a Focus RS with AWD as the "financial budgets" for Team RS, Ford Racing and SVT, have all been integrated into this new single sub brand "Ford Performance"!! Also with the mk2 FRS it was solely a Team RS budget so materials etc where limited and also the mk1 FRS stopped half way through forecasted production, aa they couldnt get rid of them to the point each car was sold at a £4k a car loss. Ford globally are now making alot of emphasis on using a "trick" AWD system in the Kuga (mk3 focus based) and the Mondeo/Fusion ...and also the mk3 Focus in general is "supposedly" lighter than the mk2 Focus was. And also Ford have spoke about using some type of plastics in future models on body panels to keep the weight down etc.
So fact the RS is now also global performance car and has more of a "broader market" in a sense, it would be absolutely stupid for them to make it FWD. As a business case - keep it FWD and p
s off existing customers and turn away new ones.....or make it AWD and have the internet break, order books fill rapidly - and maybe cause such a demand production numbers would increase, and also cause an influx of new buyers to the market, who they more than likely lost when the mk2 FRS went FWD and the customer went elsewhereneil1jnr said:
To compete with them in regard to what? Acceleration from a standing start?
Price and "premium", ie nonsensical, perceptions. Don't get me wrong. I test drove the A45 with a serious intention to buy one but found it wanting in so many areas. It's a one trick, traffic light grand prix, pony. A middle management posing pouch suitable for bar stool bragging rights only. I fully expect the Focus to be a far better car. Ali_T said:
CraigZR said:
I think to compete with the Golf R and A45 AMG it has to be awd. Im hoping the build an awd Fiesta RS, like a road going version of the R5 rally car.
Unless it's £40k, it's not an A45 rival. They might think the A45 is a better car (although your one trick pony comment later also taken on board, this is just hypothetical musing at the moment) but decide a £30k Focus is good enough with £10k in their pocket.
In the same way, the Mustang might be a rival to the M3/M4 if it steals sales from BMW, not because it provides the exact same spec and experience, but because a potential M3/M4 customer prefers the idea of saving £20k and is OK living with the less fancy interior.
The corner at 29 to 31 second, he's got hard opposite lock on and still nicely drifts round a relatively long corner.....as per my initial post, still sticking with AWD. Cocking a leg or not, maybe some sort of fancy electric AWD transferring power to wheels in contact with the tarmac, Quattro, 4matic, xdrive style?
micawrx said:
J4CKO said:
Ford don't put the dumb team on the Mustang, it needs to right, it will sell in hundreds if thousands, the RS is tiny volume by comparison
Wow, whos talking nonsense now?Are you talking about 'Mustangs' compared to 'Focus RS's'
Not eggs for eggs are we.
Do you fell that the Top Spec Mustang 5.0 would outsell Top Spec Focus RS?
...or are you comparing Mustangs with Focuses?
The Focus would sell at least 50 to 1 over the Mustang in each case.
Anyway, you were on about the Mustang "Not being a quality product" relative to the Focus, which sounds like nonsense to me, Ford sell the Focus alongside the Mustang in the US, they are all engineering to the same standards, a Focus isnt some "Taste the Difference" Ford, its just a Ford, like the Mustang, the cars are engineering to appeal to their target market.
I have rented Focuses, Fusions and Mustangs (the last two generations) in the states, the Mustangs have a more earthy feel as befits a Muscle car, US fords with Autos tend to feel more like driving appliances.
IvanSTi said:
The corner at 29 to 31 second, he's got hard opposite lock on and still nicely drifts round a relatively long corner.....as per my initial post, still sticking with AWD. Cocking a leg or not, maybe some sort of fancy electric AWD transferring power to wheels in contact with the tarmac, Quattro, 4matic, xdrive style?
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