RE: Shed Of The Week: Skoda Octavia vRS

[MC Bodge]

X5TUU said:

Exactly, I don't think I have ever seen a Superb that wasn't/isn't a taxi currently.

I do see an odd Octavia that isn't a taxi at present granted but they are few and far between.

Really?

There are many, many non-taxi Octavias and Superbs about,even in posh towns.

[kambites]

Around here (very middle class suburb of Southampton) I wouldn't be surprised if there's more privately owned Octavias than Golfs. The things seem to be everywhere. I think there's an awful lot more Golfs as company cars, though.

[nicfaz]

tomjol said:

nicfaz said:

Probably could have phrased it better - they remapped the engine to ~210/225bhp when it should have been 180bhp. I think the 225bhp TT did have some modifications to its engine so it could deliver that power reliably in all conditions (e.g. in Dubai at 50C). It was a bit naughty, but plenty of owners paid for a remap and got commensurate performance. As others have said, the Autocar test figures are simply not possible if the engine was boggo 180bhp at that weight and FWD. Autocar later confirmed that subsequent test cars were quite a lot slower.

Quite a few differences on the 210 and 225 engined cars from the 180s, not least a bigger turbo...

Certainly not worlds apart but people should not be under the impression that they can just stick a map on and turn it into a 225.

Err - a map on a 180 will be *very* similar in performance to a boggo 225. However, if you map the 225 you get something better again, because the 225 engine has some better parts.
So depends what you mean. I agree that putting a map on a 180 isn't the same as having a 225, but you can get ~225 out of a 180 without anything other than a remap.

[iloveboost]

Kidders said:

I had one of these a few years ago. I loved the way it looked inside and out, and it went well enough, but even after spending £5-600 on new suspension, powerflex bushes and new OEM, it still didn't handle that well, and the steering was lifeless. In the end I had to sell it due to circumstances and also to stop me spending a fortune getting it driving how I liked. My ST220 completely showed it up in the handling and ride department, so I guess i was spoilt, despite it being a bigger , heavier car.

Edited by Kidders on Sunday 25th January 13:21

I'm surprised that it didn't handle.
I thought you could make any FWD car handle with stiffer suspension, stiffer or adding a rear arb, adjusting camber and toe, etc? As most FWD floorpans seem to have a similar design, I think they all should have similar handling potential. The only innovation seems to be independent rear suspension, and the floorpan stiffness. Unless it's a nineties Honda or Alfa, when I think they used short double wishbones.
Perhaps you'd prefer a RWD car?
Glad you found a car you liked anyway.

[MC Bodge]

iloveboost said:

I'm surprised that it didn't handle.
I thought you could make any FWD car handle with stiffer suspension, stiffer or adding a rear arb, adjusting camber and toe, etc? As most FWD floorpans seem to have a similar design, I think they all should have similar handling potential. The only innovation seems to be independent rear suspension, and the floorpan stiffness. Unless it's a nineties Honda or Alfa, when I think they used short double wishbones.
Perhaps you'd prefer a RWD car?
Glad you found a car you liked anyway.

Well, My standard Mk3 Mondeo Ghia X diesel estate had a better ride AND handled and steered better than my standard mk1 vRS hatch with similar
Mileage.

[kambites]

Spring, damper and ARB rates are only a very minor part of the handling of a car. The way the suspension geometry changes as the suspension compresses and the steering is turned is probably the biggest factor and is very hard to change on a given platform because it requires moving suspension mounts and custom fabrication of suspension links.

I suspect nothing short of a complete redesign of the suspension is ever going to make a mk4 Golf based car drive well.

The mk5 Golf (and hence mk2 Octavia, mk2 TT, etc.) is infinitely better.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 25th January 18:58

[MC Bodge]

kambites said:

Spring, damper and ARB rates are only a very minor part of the handling of a car. The way the suspension geometry changes as the suspension compresses and the steering is turned is probably the biggest factor and is very hard to change on a given platform because it requires moving suspension mounts and custom fabrication of suspension links.

I suspect nothing short of a complete redesign of the suspension is ever going to make a mk4 Golf based car drive well.

The mk5 Golf (and hence mk2 Octavia, mk2 TT, etc.) is infinitely better.

Edited by kambites on Sunday 25th January 18:58

Exactly. The rear torsion beam of an Octavia doesn't achieve anything fancy in its travel, although it isn't bad all things considered.

[kambites]

MC Bodge said:

Exactly. The rear torsion beam of an Octavia doesn't achieve anything fancy in its travel, although it isn't bad all things considered.

I actually think the front suspension design is more of a problem for the mk4 Golf. I'm not a suspension designer so I haven't a clue what's wrong, but something about it seems to be designed to make the steering feel as lifeless as possible.

I have no idea how good or bad the rear suspension is because the front is so appalling that you never get to feel the limits of the back.

[MC Bodge]

kambites said:

I actually think the front suspension design is more of a problem for the mk4 Golf. I'm not a suspension designer so I haven't a clue what's wrong, but something about it seems to be designed to make the steering feel as lifeless as possible.

I have no idea how good or bad the rear suspension is because the front is so appalling that you never get to feel the limits of the back.

It's a long time since I had mine. Increasing rear roll stiffness can help with the front end, apparently.

The caster and low geared rack probably contributes/takes away from the steering feel -although most modern cars probably have far less

Edited by MC Bodge on Sunday 25th January 19:17

[JMF894]

Interesting.

I also owned an 04 Leon cupra TDI 150

The chassis was a lot tighter than my Octy vRS and actually handled pretty well tbh

I seem to recall Autocar commenting at the time how and why it could drive so well compared to the MK4 Golf GTI

Jimbo

[drpep]

I would just like to compliment the article prose on this occasion. Utterly splendid. I can't recall the last time I saw 'crestfallen'.

Good work, that man.

[kambites]

MC Bodge said:

The caster and low geared rack probably contributes/takes away from the steering feel -although most modern cars probably have far less

It's not lack of feel per se that makes the steering on the mk4 Golf, etc. feel odd; as you say many modern cars are no better. There's just a strange sense of... artificiality about it - as if the weighting and feel is somehow inconsistent not just across the rack but at different times in the same situation. I've no idea what causes it, but the mk4 Golf probably has the most unpleasant steering of any car I've ever driven (the contemporary Astra's steering feels like Elise in comparison).

I haven't actually driven a mk1 Octavia VRS but the standard car is certainly exactly the same as the Golf.

Edited by kambites on Monday 26th January 07:38

[nicfaz]

kambites said:

MC Bodge said:

The caster and low geared rack probably contributes/takes away from the steering feel -although most modern cars probably have far less

It's not lack of feel per se that makes the steering on the mk4 Golf, etc. feel odd; as you say many modern cars are no better. There's just a strange sense of... artificiality about it - as if the weighting and feel is somehow inconsistent not just across the rack but at different times in the same situation. I've no idea what causes it, but the mk4 Golf probably has the most unpleasant steering of any car I've ever driven (the contemporary Astra's steering feels like Elise in comparison).

I haven't actually driven a mk1 Octavia VRS but the standard car is certainly exactly the same as the Golf.

Edited by kambites on Monday 26th January 07:38

Interesting - I had a 2004 Fabia vRS and the garage gave me a newish Astra SRI as a courtesy car - I thought the Astra had the most unpleasant, artificial steering I'd ever experienced, likening it afterwards to playing OutRun. By contrast the Fabia's steering was accurate and well weighted, if lacking in ultimate feel. Never drove an Octy vRS though.

[iloveboost]

JMF894 said:

Interesting.

I also owned an 04 Leon cupra TDI 150

The chassis was a lot tighter than my Octy vRS and actually handled pretty well tbh

I seem to recall Autocar commenting at the time how and why it could drive so well compared to the MK4 Golf GTI

Jimbo

They grip well because of the 225 tyres, instead of 205 tyres, and they handle a bit better because of the slightly stiffer suspension. There's massive grip in the dry once the tyres are loaded, but poor body control.
The worst thing is it takes a relatively long time for the tyres to generate full grip and steering feel on turn-in, and over bumps, crests, etc the body rises more than it should.
I've not been on a track and don't drive at 10/10, so it could just be me.

[iloveboost]

kambites said:

It's not lack of feel per se that makes the steering on the mk4 Golf, etc. feel odd; as you say many modern cars are no better. There's just a strange sense of... artificiality about it - as if the weighting and feel is somehow inconsistent not just across the rack but at different times in the same situation. I've no idea what causes it, but the mk4 Golf probably has the most unpleasant steering of any car I've ever driven (the contemporary Astra's steering feels like Elise in comparison).

I haven't actually driven a mk1 Octavia VRS but the standard car is certainly exactly the same as the Golf.

Edited by kambites on Monday 26th January 07:38

The steering weights up on all of them ok, but it's vague. It has a dead zone in the middle of the rack, but the steering weight gets greater as you add lock, just not by as much as you expect and it's not precise. It's also got no real 'elasticity' to it like the great steering cars have. In the great steering cars I've driven, you can almost feel the tyre stretching through the wheel, but it remains precise.
Perhaps it has low caster or poor toe control? To be fair no car with power steering will steer like an Elise, and high caster causes bump steer, doesn't it?
If I was a better driver I'm sure I'd know what's wrong with it, just by feel.

[X5TUU]

MC Bodge said:

X5TUU said:

Exactly, I don't think I have ever seen a Superb that wasn't/isn't a taxi currently.

I do see an odd Octavia that isn't a taxi at present granted but they are few and far between.

Really?

There are many, many non-taxi Octavias and Superbs about,even in posh towns.

And out of curiosity on my commute from Newcastle to Wakefield this morning ... I spotted nil Superb's and 4 Octavia's - 3 black, 1 white and all taxis ... im not saying its totally representative but that's my first hand experience on a 2.5hr commute today

[MC Bodge]

X5TUU said:

And out of curiosity on my commute from Newcastle to Wakefield this morning ... I spotted nil Superb's and 4 Octavia's - 3 black, 1 white and all taxis ... im not saying its totally representative but that's my first hand experience on a 2.5hr commute today

I must tell my father-in-law and brother-in-law to sell their non-taxi Octavias, then.

[rtz62]

An addition to my earlier post;
When Shed first posted the vRS on here a couple of days ago I was arranging to buy an estate version.
Fast forward from then to yesterday, and I duly picked up a 126k, 53 reg, one family owned from new vRS estate, my 4th Octavia vRS (and this despite me owning newer and faster cars)
True, it had a REVO st1 remap (showing 226bhp on REVOs last rolling road open day) and an uprated clutch with lightened flywheel.
Short of sorting out a couple of cosmetic paint issues, and having the alloys repainted in silver rather than their current satin black (to me black wheels look wrong on a red car - I'm a fan of OEM looks) the car is blinding, especially as it cost the grand total of....... £900, which I think is a bargain.
My friend drove it home in a, ahem, 'spirited' fashion from Manchester via the Peak National Park to my home in rural Ruralshire and still got late 30s / early 40s to the gallon.
Like others, I'm a fan of the anonymous looks as a counterpoint to its ability to make good progress; to paraphrase an Amercian president 'it walks (drives) softly but carries a (fairly) big stick'

[JMF894]

rtz62 said:

An addition to my earlier post;
When Shed first posted the vRS on here a couple of days ago I was arranging to buy an estate version.
Fast forward from then to yesterday, and I duly picked up a 126k, 53 reg, one family owned from new vRS estate, my 4th Octavia vRS (and this despite me owning newer and faster cars)
True, it had a REVO st1 remap (showing 226bhp on REVOs last rolling road open day) and an uprated clutch with lightened flywheel.
Short of sorting out a couple of cosmetic paint issues, and having the alloys repainted in silver rather than their current satin black (to me black wheels look wrong on a red car - I'm a fan of OEM looks) the car is blinding, especially as it cost the grand total of....... £900, which I think is a bargain.
My friend drove it home in a, ahem, 'spirited' fashion from Manchester via the Peak National Park to my home in rural Ruralshire and still got late 30s / early 40s to the gallon.
Like others, I'm a fan of the anonymous looks as a counterpoint to its ability to make good progress; to paraphrase an Amercian president 'it walks (drives) softly but carries a (fairly) big stick'

I like this. My sentiments exactly

[VolvoT5]

I must admit this appeals to me.... infact the Skoda and SEAT VAG products generally appeal to me. However having had two SEATs I would be worried about reliability and niggly issues.

Nice amount of performance and practically for 1k though.

Does anyone else still see 5X plate cars as 'new'. I only seem to think of cars on the old prefix style plates as 'old'.