RE: New McLaren 650S for Geneva

[Sway]

Not THAT list (or rather, register!) - the one of people who've pissed me off today.

It's fairly short. You, the bloke that wrote the article, and Rowan Atkinson (for putting his F1 up for sale when I haven't got £10M down the back of the sofa).

Today's been a good day. Apart from anything Mclaren related.

Half expecting to hear that Ron's been arrested for beastiality, with his defence being it was merely a 'anthro-canine genitalia interface calibration test'...

[jeffw]

cavebloke said:

Seems like an odd longtail to choose since #41 was a DNF at Le Mans in 1998. Unless I'm missing something?

...so I was missing that they used #41 in 1997 too and finished 2nd overall and won GT1.

Edited by cavebloke on Friday 23 January 14:47

I was going to say the 97 No41 did better than that.

[Streetrod]

DMC2 said:

Anybody with a 650s is about to take a big hit in depreciation unless the new car is very track focused. 911 GT3s don't affect the residuals of cooking 911s as they are so different, but McLaren keep releasing cars which are just better versions of their current car.

Sorry but how does this effect the value of 650s???, the 458 Speciale did not effect the value of the standard 458, why should it be different for McLaren?

[NRS]

Soupie69uk said:

I agree they are almost being a bit like Pagani were with the Zonda by bringing out other silight itterations quite quickly after releasing the latest model. That was on a smaller scale I suppose. In some ways its good as then the customers can get the latest tech but you wonder if at times they hold back so they can release a new improved model 6 months later. I would always feel like hanging on for the next model.

The Zonda was nothing like that. Almost all of the "special editions" were actually just the car with the owner's name on it, not a separate model. A few had some different parts, but that was about it. In addition a couple were actually rebuilt cars with changed names (one S became the GJ for example). The reason for all the names was that the Zonda F was filled up in regards to the 25 to be made (at least the coupe) and so unlike Ferrari they weren't going for making more than they said they would.

The official models after the F were the Cinque cars, Tricolore and kinda the 760s.

Sway said:

For fks sake, please, please, stop with the bullst that is 'it's a reworked P1 engine'. It's not, nothing like.

Whilst it has the same bore and stroke, the block casting and pretty much everything else is different.

To the point where the P1 engine is something like half the height of the 12C/650S one.

Wonder if they'll say the NSX is built on a Honda Jazz?

[shortar53]

Well... The BMW i8 is basically a mini...

[GRBF430F1]

Streetrod said:

Sorry but how does this effect the value of 650s???, the 458 Speciale did not effect the value of the standard 458, why should it be different for McLaren?

It will - upwardly IMHO. Its a halo car.
Limited production striped out racer that they will charge more money for no doubt. These lightweight specials are a nice way to improve your profit margin.
If they start charging £300k for this a mid spec £250k 650S spider will seem a bargain with the added benefit of roof down motoring.

Its going to be an epic car and no doubt outshine the 458 Speciale in sheer performance terms. Imagine 30 bhp more and 100 Kg less - the standard 650S is ballistic so this thing is going to be totally mental.
Great for the track but not sure any more speed is possible on the road

[redroadster]

Jordan210 said:

If I had the money to buy a McLaren I would be worried that it would be outdated the week after!

My thoughts too, McClarens will become like tv sets the new one will already be outdated cos theres a newer one coming out next month,there does not seem to be a normal model cycle its like yes we can make it better this week time to role out the new model .

[P4ROT]

Love the camo - surprised noone has thought of that already.

[andyps]

Streetrod said:

DMC2 said:

Anybody with a 650s is about to take a big hit in depreciation unless the new car is very track focused. 911 GT3s don't affect the residuals of cooking 911s as they are so different, but McLaren keep releasing cars which are just better versions of their current car.

Sorry but how does this effect the value of 650s???, the 458 Speciale did not effect the value of the standard 458, why should it be different for McLaren?

Exactly my thought. But of course, the McLaren is British and therefore it is necessary to criticise it for the engineering capability demonstrated and the passion which means that continual improvements are made. Of course, they could open shops selling tat on expensive streets in major cities and a theme park in the middle east to demonstrate that capability and gain a better reputation as a car maker with integrity who don't devalue the expensive products their customers buy.

[Rich_W]

Streetrod said:

DMC2 said:

Anybody with a 650s is about to take a big hit in depreciation unless the new car is very track focused. 911 GT3s don't affect the residuals of cooking 911s as they are so different, but McLaren keep releasing cars which are just better versions of their current car.

Sorry but how does this effect the value of 650s???, the 458 Speciale did not effect the value of the standard 458, why should it be different for McLaren?

As I pointed out on the 650 Le Mans thread.

We all know they'll be a 700s and then another variant of this car in the next 12 months. Not a new car, but a facelift/improved variant. (I will bump this thread when it happens )

And therein lies the problem. Ferrari built 458 (coupe and spyder) and have recently done Speciale (Coupe and I think Spyder) That'll be it for this model of Ferrari. Of course in due time they'll be a replacement for 458. But where McLaren IMO are getting it wrong is in not keeping their existing clients at heart. They just need to reign it back a bit. Leave the current car alone. Concentrate on selling them and upgrading existing clients to the latest spec Nav/Engine/whatever.

Then at the end 2016/start'17 launch the successor for 12C/650s.

How long was 12C out before it became 650s? (2 years?) How long after that has this version come out? (6 months ish?) The 650s soft launch was handled very badly as they continued to make the 12c (the better looking car imo) and then dropped the "free upgrades whilst the 12c is in production, oh wait 650s is a new car so sorry" which I know irked many on McLarenlife.com

Ignoring whether you like or hate McLaren or Ferrari you have to say that the Italians are doing the PR/brand loyalty stuff a damn site more sensibly. It "probably" won't hurt them a lot, but its still not the best way.

[Nickyboy]

shouldbenicholas said:

Okay PH'ers, help me...

On the A34 yesterday (south of Newbury) I saw what I'm sure was a 650, but with circular exhausts exiting from the rear window (or where one would be in most cases). It also had a small wiring loom (3 or 4 wires I'd guess) running from the side window into the area around the exhausts. It was a LHD car, driven by a 'normal' looking young lady (she didn't look like an engineer out on a proving run is what I mean, no sexism please, keep that for The Sun)... And anyway it's a bit of a way from HQ... So what did I see please?

Thanks

Sure it wasn't a 918?

[GreenArrow]

Rich_W said:

[
How long was 12C out before it became 650s? (2 years?) How long after that has this version come out? (6 months ish?) The 650s soft launch was handled very badly as they continued to make the 12c (the better looking car imo) and then dropped the "free upgrades whilst the 12c is in production, oh wait 650s is a new car so sorry" which I know irked many on McLarenlife.com

Ignoring whether you like or hate McLaren or Ferrari you have to say that the Italians are doing the PR/brand loyalty stuff a damn site more sensibly. It "probably" won't hurt them a lot, but its still not the best way.

Except that didn't McLaren offer free upgrades to the first batch of 12C owners when they uprated the 2012 car? Cant imagine Ferrari doing that. From what I have read McLaren look after their customers very well, although I share your concern about residual values which aren't strong.

[Rich_W]

GreenArrow said:

Except that didn't McLaren offer free upgrades to the first batch of 12C owners when they uprated the 2012 car? Cant imagine Ferrari doing that. From what I have read McLaren look after their customers very well, although I share your concern about residual values which aren't strong.

My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that McLaren told potential owners that as long as the 12c was being made owners would get access to the updates. IIRC free. Great idea IMO. But if it only lasts 2 years (at maximum - I daresay many were less than a year in) when they (presumably) hinted on a multi year lifespan for the car. It doesn't engender loyalty from the customer.

[isaldiri]

DMC2 said:

Anybody with a 650s is about to take a big hit in depreciation unless the new car is very track focused. 911 GT3s don't affect the residuals of cooking 911s as they are so different, but McLaren keep releasing cars which are just better versions of their current car.

From what i understand, this car is more along the lines of the RS cars to standard gt3s and numbers will be quite limited/low.

As far as 650 depreciation is concerned...they just need to look at classifieds to see where they stand unfortunately. This car will probably not significantly impact the 650 over and above the existing factors.

[Steve7777]

GRBF430F1 said:

Streetrod said:

Sorry but how does this effect the value of 650s???, the 458 Speciale did not effect the value of the standard 458, why should it be different for McLaren?

It will - upwardly IMHO. Its a halo car.
Limited production striped out racer that they will charge more money for no doubt. These lightweight specials are a nice way to improve your profit margin.
If they start charging £300k for this a mid spec £250k 650S spider will seem a bargain with the added benefit of roof down motoring.

Its going to be an epic car and no doubt outshine the 458 Speciale in sheer performance terms. Imagine 30 bhp more and 100 Kg less - the standard 650S is ballistic so this thing is going to be totally mental.
Great for the track but not sure any more speed is possible on the road

Limited production is the key point there. If they build more than there's a market for as they've done before then they'll have to discount this one too and that will push the whole range down again.

[GRBF430F1]

Steve7777 said:

Limited production is the key point there. If they build more than there's a market for as they've done before then they'll have to discount this one too and that will push the whole range down again.

Not that I was after a lightweight coupe but I was told that they are all sold out anyway. I think there were only 50 ? for the UK

[Streetrod]

isaldiri said:

DMC2 said:

Anybody with a 650s is about to take a big hit in depreciation unless the new car is very track focused. 911 GT3s don't affect the residuals of cooking 911s as they are so different, but McLaren keep releasing cars which are just better versions of their current car.

From what i understand, this car is more along the lines of the RS cars to standard gt3s and numbers will be quite limited/low.

As far as 650 depreciation is concerned...they just need to look at classifieds to see where they stand unfortunately. This car will probably not significantly impact the 650 over and above the existing factors.

Let’s look at the classifieds as they tell any interesting story

49 - 650s/12c
Only 8 or which are the more desirable 650s spiders

140 - 458's in all its variants
10 of which are Specials

Considering the numbers made it appears to me that the 650/12c is the harder car to get hold of, especially the spider version. Owners are keeping hold of them which should indicate good things for values going forward.

The 458 is a great car but you can’t help tripping over them in the dealers at the moment. I was up at Romans a couple of weeks ago and they had three 458 Specials in stock

[Sway]

Nice work.

Additionally, one of the things that separates F/Mc is how F manipulate the market by requiring dealers to hold back stock...

So those ones advertised are unlikely to be the only ones on dealer's books.

[Chafford1]

CraigyMc said:

According to various other sources, it's going go be called the 675LT, will have 666bhp and will have a 100kg weight saving over the 650S.

McLaren need to differentiate more between their different products. For road use, why spend £400,000 on a 675LT when you will soon be able to buy a £130,000 Sports Series that will look very similar and will have the same basic 3.8 V8 engine. One of the reasons the F1 is such a special car is that wonderful V12 engine. McLaren's contemporary top end cars need something similar.

[flemke]

Chafford1 said:

CraigyMc said:

According to various other sources, it's going go be called the 675LT, will have 666bhp and will have a 100kg weight saving over the 650S.

McLaren need to differentiate more between their different products. For road use, why spend £400,000 on a 675LT when you will soon be able to buy a £130,000 Sports Series that will look very similar and will have the same basic 3.8 V8 engine. One of the reasons the F1 is such a special car is that wonderful V12 engine. McLaren's contemporary top end cars need something similar.

Why is everyone presuming that the just-previewed car will cost £400k?