RE: New McLaren 650S for Geneva
Discussion
flemke said:
Chafford1 said:
CraigyMc said:
According to various other sources, it's going go be called the 675LT, will have 666bhp and will have a 100kg weight saving over the 650S.
McLaren need to differentiate more between their different products. For road use, why spend £400,000 on a 675LT when you will soon be able to buy a £130,000 Sports Series that will look very similar and will have the same basic 3.8 V8 engine. One of the reasons the F1 is such a special car is that wonderful V12 engine. McLaren's contemporary top end cars need something similar.flemke said:
Why is everyone presuming that the just-previewed car will cost £400k?
Mainly from this article I guess..http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-gene...
Streetrod said:
Let’s look at the classifieds as they tell any interesting story
49 - 650s/12c
Only 8 or which are the more desirable 650s spiders
140 - 458's in all its variants
10 of which are Specials
Considering the numbers made it appears to me that the 650/12c is the harder car to get hold of, especially the spider version. Owners are keeping hold of them which should indicate good things for values going forward.
The 458 is a great car but you can’t help tripping over them in the dealers at the moment. I was up at Romans a couple of weeks ago and they had three 458 Specials in stock
There are a lot more 458/Ferrari buyers than 650/Mclaren buyers imo. For the potential buyers to cars available, the Mclaren is really not a difficult car to get hold of which explains why 12c prices have been relatively weaker and in particular, considerably so vs the 458. I am not that hung up over the depreciation mind you (it is obviously rather more than i had hoped but such is life) but it is simply an observation on prices.49 - 650s/12c
Only 8 or which are the more desirable 650s spiders
140 - 458's in all its variants
10 of which are Specials
Considering the numbers made it appears to me that the 650/12c is the harder car to get hold of, especially the spider version. Owners are keeping hold of them which should indicate good things for values going forward.
The 458 is a great car but you can’t help tripping over them in the dealers at the moment. I was up at Romans a couple of weeks ago and they had three 458 Specials in stock
Romans might well have a few speciales in stock but i very much doubt any rhd car will have traded below list price. Do you see a single 650 not being offered a significant chunk below list (ie inclusive of the rather expensive options) including those at delivery mileage?
The 458 has been around since early 2010 and everyone knows there is the replacement model coming out in Geneva. The 650 has only been released a year ago and Mclaren were very strongly trying to market it as a new car despite obviously being an updated P11 car ie a facelifted12c so the comaprison vs the end of production standard 458 isn't really a like for like one as well.
Edited by isaldiri on Saturday 24th January 15:14
isaldiri said:
flemke said:
Why is everyone presuming that the just-previewed car will cost £400k?
Mainly from this article I guess..http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-gene...
Yes, some time ago Mike Flewitt said that "an early stage P15 project" was in development.
The writer is presuming that that would be this car. McLaren have given the development symbols ("P11", "P13") to substantially different models, not to permutations of a single model. This car clearly is a permutation of the 650S, as is the "Le Mans" cosmetic-mod version that was formally announced this week. These cars are part of the 650S series, not a substantially different thing.
Ron is about the most obsessively organised man in the Northern Hemisphere. If the £400k car to which Flewitt referred was the "P15", is it likely that McLaren would be unveiling that car, model number "15", in Geneva, prior to when they unveil the much-speculated about "P13" in April?
Also, this "longtail" variant is clearly pitched at the 458 Speciale, which goes for roughly £250k. We will recall that the 12C was priced at something like £1,000 lower than its direct competitor the standard 458. Does it make any sense that this new car would be priced £150k, and 40%, higher than the car against which it is meant directly to compete?
Autocar fail, I am afraid.
flemke said:
Autocar conflation.
Yes, some time ago Mike Flewitt said that "an early stage P15 project" was in development.
The writer is presuming that that would be this car. McLaren have given the development symbols ("P11", "P13") to substantially different models, not to permutations of a single model. This car clearly is a permutation of the 650S, as is the "Le Mans" cosmetic-mod version that was formally announced this week. These cars are part of the 650S series, not a substantially different thing.
Ron is about the most obsessively organised man in the Northern Hemisphere. If the £400k car to which Flewitt referred was the "P15", is it likely that McLaren would be unveiling that car, model number "15", in Geneva, prior to when they unveil the much-speculated about "P13" in April?
Also, this "longtail" variant is clearly pitched at the 458 Speciale, which goes for roughly £250k. We will recall that the 12C was priced at something like £1,000 lower than its direct competitor the standard 458. Does it make any sense that this new car would be priced £150k, and 40%, higher than the car against which it is meant directly to compete?
Autocar fail, I am afraid.
Can't disagree Yes, some time ago Mike Flewitt said that "an early stage P15 project" was in development.
The writer is presuming that that would be this car. McLaren have given the development symbols ("P11", "P13") to substantially different models, not to permutations of a single model. This car clearly is a permutation of the 650S, as is the "Le Mans" cosmetic-mod version that was formally announced this week. These cars are part of the 650S series, not a substantially different thing.
Ron is about the most obsessively organised man in the Northern Hemisphere. If the £400k car to which Flewitt referred was the "P15", is it likely that McLaren would be unveiling that car, model number "15", in Geneva, prior to when they unveil the much-speculated about "P13" in April?
Also, this "longtail" variant is clearly pitched at the 458 Speciale, which goes for roughly £250k. We will recall that the 12C was priced at something like £1,000 lower than its direct competitor the standard 458. Does it make any sense that this new car would be priced £150k, and 40%, higher than the car against which it is meant directly to compete?
Autocar fail, I am afraid.
autocar have had some issues with funny numbers related to Mclaren ever since they had Sutcliffe put up an article claiming a P1 could do 5g or something silly.A friend who has seen this car says the 'LT' stands for 'lightweight track' which seems rather a lot more sensible than 'longtail'. Have been hearing a lot of differing things on prices though, initially was told £250k then later by someone else £300k....
isaldiri said:
There are a lot more 458/Ferrari buyers than 650/Mclaren buyers imo. For the potential buyers to cars available, the Mclaren is really not a difficult car to get hold of which explains why 12c prices have been relatively weaker and in particular, considerably so vs the 458. I am not that hung up over the depreciation mind you (it is obviously rather more than i had hoped but such is life) but it is simply an observation on prices.
Romans might well have a few speciales in stock but i very much doubt any rhd car will have traded below list price. Do you see a single 650 not being offered a significant chunk below list (ie inclusive of the rather expensive options) including those at delivery mileage?
The 458 has been around since early 2010 and everyone knows there is the replacement model coming out in Geneva. The 650 has only been released a year ago and Mclaren were very strongly trying to market it as a new car despite obviously being an updated P11 car ie a facelifted12c so the comaprison vs the end of production standard 458 isn't really a like for like one as well.
I must disagree with you that the 650S is "a facelifted" 12C. I know this because I (and other McLaren clients) have pleaded with them to make a 650S with 12C bodywork and they have said that it is essentially impossible.Romans might well have a few speciales in stock but i very much doubt any rhd car will have traded below list price. Do you see a single 650 not being offered a significant chunk below list (ie inclusive of the rather expensive options) including those at delivery mileage?
The 458 has been around since early 2010 and everyone knows there is the replacement model coming out in Geneva. The 650 has only been released a year ago and Mclaren were very strongly trying to market it as a new car despite obviously being an updated P11 car ie a facelifted12c so the comaprison vs the end of production standard 458 isn't really a like for like one as well.
The 650S has greater cooling requirements, so the 12C front end is simply unadaptable. Also, the 2 cars have completely different wiring looms, so you couldn't run a 650S in 12C bodywork unless you wanted to run without functioning lights.
Yes they have essentially the same engine and gearbox, but so do a 964 and a 993.
There are loads of similarities between the 2 McLarens, but the 650S is a different car.
Cheers.
flemke said:
I must disagree with you that the 650S is "a facelifted" 12C. I know this because I (and other McLaren clients) have pleaded with them to make a 650S with 12C bodywork and they have said that it is essentially impossible.
The 650S has greater cooling requirements, so the 12C front end is simply unadaptable. Also, the 2 cars have completely different wiring looms, so you couldn't run a 650S in 12C bodywork unless you wanted to run without functioning lights.
Yes they have essentially the same engine and gearbox, but so do a 964 and a 993.
There are loads of similarities between the 2 McLarens, but the 650S is a different car.
Cheers.
That's interesting, I have always thought of the 650 as an updated P11, with more significant changes than a standard update admittedly (06 gallardo to lp560 rather than early gallardo to the 06 one for example) but essentially much the same basic car even if one couldn't simply bolt on the different bodywork. (Late edit) - I suppose some of this is semantics when a car is 'different'/'new' vs merely a facelift. The 650 i still think isn't as much of a change as say the 997 gen 2 to gen 1 cars for example or the speciale to 458 but obviously agree it was more than simply a bodywork change.The 650S has greater cooling requirements, so the 12C front end is simply unadaptable. Also, the 2 cars have completely different wiring looms, so you couldn't run a 650S in 12C bodywork unless you wanted to run without functioning lights.
Yes they have essentially the same engine and gearbox, but so do a 964 and a 993.
There are loads of similarities between the 2 McLarens, but the 650S is a different car.
Cheers.
Didn't realise about the different wiring, had asked very briefly about the same to refit a 650 to the 12c front last year but was told the different suspension points to cut out carbon tub thump prevented that. In the end i wasn't happy with the 650's steering compared to the 12c so never enquired any further. You most assuredly have far better contacts to the factory though so am more than happy to defer to you on this!
Edited by isaldiri on Saturday 24th January 16:01
isaldiri said:
I didn't think this 650 variant was P15 which is the car suggested at £400k isn't it? As I understand it the 650 is P11M so this would be P11M+a bit rather than P15.Edited by andyps on Saturday 24th January 20:57
andyps said:
isaldiri said:
I didn't think this 650 variant was P15 which is the car suggested at £400k isn't it? As I understand it the 650 is P11M so this would be P11M+a bit rather than P15.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff