Re: Escort RS v Focus RS v Focus RS: Time For Tea?

[monthefish]

Blu3R said:

monthefish said:

Glad to hear someone else say it.
The Escort Cosworth was a dream car of mine, but when I finally got thrown the keys to one for a spirited drive about 5 years ago, I was totally disappointing. The perfect illustration of why to never meet your heroes.

And of course it got off the line first - it jumped the start!

Can't really blame the car for that then.

The point is that by today's standards the Cossie isn't that quick, well mannered or even comfortable, but it was back in 2000 when I had my first of three. And the 'barn door' on the back could be deleted when specced, but that was a huge part of the appeal when it launched 23 years ago.

It's nothing to do with the passage of time, or comparing to todays standards. I've driven older cars and revelled in the experience.

[daytona365]

Exactly. That's how say, GTO's 'which are not that quick, comfortable or forgiving' by modern standards fetch 20 million quid !!

[Zad]

The point about Cosworths wasn't how they came out of the factory, or even how they behave 17 years on with knackered old dampers, suspension rubbers and a worn engine. No, the main thing was that it didn't take a lot of fettling to get hilarious amounts of horsepower. Of course, if you didn't modify the rest of the system to cope with it, it would melt down (or more likely park itself in a tree) within the next 2,000 miles or so.

Here's another short Autocar film on another Ford Escort RS, the Mexico. It looks so tiny!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59UgfeojP8o

Edited to actually include the video url... d'oh!

Edited by Zad on Saturday 24th January 00:35

[shipoftheseus]

Had several cossies, although never the escort, and driven both focus models.
All impressive at the time, less so now. That's hardly surprising given the way things have moved on. But of the three the only one which would get my money is the mk1 focus. The escort does feel dated now, the big focus impressively fast but slightly aloof. Mk1 still feels quick and involving, with one of the best front driven helms I've ever had the pleasure of using. Just takes a bit of finesse to control the torque steer. Personally, I have to agree with autocar, even if the video wasn't the best.

[Blu3R]

monthefish said:

Blu3R said:

monthefish said:

Glad to hear someone else say it.
The Escort Cosworth was a dream car of mine, but when I finally got thrown the keys to one for a spirited drive about 5 years ago, I was totally disappointing. The perfect illustration of why to never meet your heroes.

And of course it got off the line first - it jumped the start!

Can't really blame the car for that then.

The point is that by today's standards the Cossie isn't that quick, well mannered or even comfortable, but it was back in 2000 when I had my first of three. And the 'barn door' on the back could be deleted when specced, but that was a huge part of the appeal when it launched 23 years ago.

It's nothing to do with the passage of time, or comparing to todays standards. I've driven older cars and revelled in the experience.

What exactly had you built it up in your mind to be then?

[juddzey455]

GreenArrow said:

Its funny all the cossie fans jumping to defend it, but to be fair, as the article says, the Cosworth was based on the Sierra, not the best base car to start with, whereas the Focus RS was based on the Mk1 Focus, a quite brilliant car to start with and yes, years ahead of the older stuff Ford made. I have the old Autocar road test from 1992 for the RS Cosworth and even back then they weren't that keen, whereas they always did love the Mk1 RS, even when EVO were slating it. Chris Harris was its biggest fan, called it his favourite long term test car ever. To be honest I would love a Mk1 Focus RS. They are criminally under-valued by fast ford standards and I guarantee you that ten years from now they will be worth 20 grand.

The mk1 is a fantastic bit of kit for sure, having owned one for 8 odd years, drive them right and there outpace most but it has the potential to bite if your not on your game.

Being a limited run, in years to come the mk1 will go up in price for sure

[monthefish]

Blu3R said:

monthefish said:

Blu3R said:

monthefish said:

Glad to hear someone else say it.
The Escort Cosworth was a dream car of mine, but when I finally got thrown the keys to one for a spirited drive about 5 years ago, I was totally disappointing. The perfect illustration of why to never meet your heroes.

And of course it got off the line first - it jumped the start!

Can't really blame the car for that then.

The point is that by today's standards the Cossie isn't that quick, well mannered or even comfortable, but it was back in 2000 when I had my first of three. And the 'barn door' on the back could be deleted when specced, but that was a huge part of the appeal when it launched 23 years ago.

It's nothing to do with the passage of time, or comparing to todays standards. I've driven older cars and revelled in the experience.

What exactly had you built it up in your mind to be then?

...better than it was.
Perhaps just accept they're not as good as you beloved them to be.

I still love the looks, and the whole concept of the car, if that makes you feel any better.

[Scottish Greg]

Baryonyx said:

clarki said:

The Escort is miles cooler than either of the other 2 - a true cult car. I'd love one. Still stunning to look at today, aged very well IMO.

Not sure the Focus RS has ever been the best hot hatch - not even back in 2009 - and when I drove one it didn't feel anything like 300+bhp tbh.

I believe Mountune lifted the lid on that when they revealed most of the ones they were getting in to tune were making significantly less than 300bhp, and none had ever made more than 270bhp in standard tune on their dyno.

Owners found it out. Normally getting around 280bhp. Ford then did a re-call for fixing the "hard brake pedal" issue but also updated the map to give the full 300bhp.

[TheHighlander]

I have owned all 3 of the cars.

Escort Cosworth - My one was 500bhp so it was too extreme for a daily as i bought it to drive, pretty much hated ownership, It was a childhood dream car for me and at 26 I figured "why not", it was a "well used" Cosworth but was clean with 70k on it and a Big Turbo Lux - A1 Rally built it. Wish i did keep it,de tune it and enjoy it but never did.

Focus RS MK1 - Got a 400bhp one, Really enjoyed this, thought it was an excellent handling car minus the dangerous torque steer but it made it more enjoyable and it felt like you had to drive it to stay alive. Not a fan of the "high up" seating position but apart from that it's a brilliant car.

Focus RS MK2 - Bought one last January and sold it in September - Was very disapointed with this. Seats were very comfy but the overall feel of the car was not good imo. I then mapped/decatted and added a group A filter to see if it would up the fun levels but it never did.

I also have a Escort S2 RS Turbo that's fully restored running 200+bhp, that's a hoot to drive but not comparable to the above. I have too many cars these days.

If you want pictures of them all just search under my username, I'm at work just now and cannot get onto PB to them on here as its a blocked site for some reason.

[leedsutd1]

cheers for link , the escort is 1.5 seconds quicker around a track than the FRS1

s m said:

leedsutd1 said:

The baggy suspension will be down to Ford leaving the original suspension on, it will be worn out ,if they just put on new standard suspension would be better .

Here's the SAME Ford Heritage ST Escos and a Focus RS Mk1 at Anglesey

Clickety

[NJH]

juddzey455 said:

GreenArrow said:

Its funny all the cossie fans jumping to defend it, but to be fair, as the article says, the Cosworth was based on the Sierra, not the best base car to start with, whereas the Focus RS was based on the Mk1 Focus, a quite brilliant car to start with and yes, years ahead of the older stuff Ford made. I have the old Autocar road test from 1992 for the RS Cosworth and even back then they weren't that keen, whereas they always did love the Mk1 RS, even when EVO were slating it. Chris Harris was its biggest fan, called it his favourite long term test car ever. To be honest I would love a Mk1 Focus RS. They are criminally under-valued by fast ford standards and I guarantee you that ten years from now they will be worth 20 grand.

The mk1 is a fantastic bit of kit for sure, having owned one for 8 odd years, drive them right and there outpace most but it has the potential to bite if your not on your game.

Being a limited run, in years to come the mk1 will go up in price for sure

Agree 100%. Back in the day I was on the other side of the fence and really did hate Fords with some justification I feel, then they started making cars like the Puma and mk1 Focus which had brilliant handling and poise regardless almost of which model in the range they were all good. I think in a few years time people will look back on that period as the era when Ford in Europe was transformed and the cars that did it will be regarded as the most important Ford classics of the past 35 years. I passed my ARDS in a 3 door mk1 Focus as well so I have a particular soft spot for them.

[stephen300o]

xRIEx said:

article said:

Conveniently enough Autocar has this vid from when the last RS was launched (six years ago now!)

750turbo said:

That Vid is from 2009.

The meme is older than the video.

[xRIEx]

stephen300o said:

xRIEx said:

article said:

Conveniently enough Autocar has this vid from when the last RS was launched (six years ago now!)

750turbo said:

That Vid is from 2009.

The meme is older than the video.

[Furyblade_Lee]

DJRC said:

The Escort RS was st when it was new. It remains st now. What has changed?

Yeah, 'course it was.... really, really, really st.

[Oddball RS]

When did 'waiting for the new one' hit fever pitch, it must be me I've not noticed.

[juddzey455]

leedsutd1 said:

On a damp track, realistically the mk1 is the better car, the wise man would buy a monte and store it for a few years

[Paul O]

Cosworth for me. Don't care how good or st is it. It's an Escort Coswoth. The other two will pale into insignificance as newer Focus RSs are built. There will never be another Escort a Cosworth.

[Nedzilla]

Had an escort cosworth myself in the late 90s and was slightly disappointed. I felt like the king of the road when I first got it but the driving experience was a bit of a let down. It just felt a bit too tame,soft and laggy though I'm sure another 100hp or so would've livened it up a bit.
I sold it after just over a year and bought a Mitsubishi Evo 5 and simply couldn't believe how much things has moved on in 6 yrs or so.

[KarlMac]

Wow. Never realised how truly hideous the mk2 RS is. Just nasty.

[DJRC]

iva cosworth said:

DJRC said:

The Escort RS was st when it was new. It remains st now. What has changed?

Cosworth haters have arrived with insightful views as ever.

Any actual experience to back this up ?

Let's see.
Does it still look like an Escort? Yes. So it still looks st.
Has anything changed to the record books to indicate it was butt fked by the Integrale? No. So it's still st at the job it was designed to do then.

Ergo - it was st. It remains st. Case closed.