Is modern journalism ruining cars?
Discussion
2-door coupes simply don't sell well in UK. There's a long list of models with disappointing sales.
BMW hit the "magic button" by selling 2-door saloons instead. Also the 911 is IMO a 2-door saloon. In descending order of popularity what people actually want/buy is,
1. Big lumpen SUVs - big sales. Wave that willy or perfect for the timid lady driver
2. Shopping cars - huge sales. They work. And some over-priced versions have big engines.
3. Saloons/estates - moderate sales. They work. And some have big engines.
4. Sportscars - tiny sales. They need to look the part and the roof needs to be practical.
BMW hit the "magic button" by selling 2-door saloons instead. Also the 911 is IMO a 2-door saloon. In descending order of popularity what people actually want/buy is,
1. Big lumpen SUVs - big sales. Wave that willy or perfect for the timid lady driver
2. Shopping cars - huge sales. They work. And some over-priced versions have big engines.
3. Saloons/estates - moderate sales. They work. And some have big engines.
4. Sportscars - tiny sales. They need to look the part and the roof needs to be practical.
I don't think there is the breadth of talent there used to be - too many trying to be Bulgin and ending up as Troy Queef. Not many with a distinctive style of their own. I like Harris - OK, he prioritises limit handling and track behaviour as much as anyone, but he's probably the best of that ilk. What's needed is a greater variety of angles from which to view a car, written well.
GravelBen said:
NJH said:
It all adds up though, the whole car just seems much to big for what it is supposedly trying to be which isn't an Elise with a roof but a car that was supposed to hark back to simpler lower power cars of old. Both the overall width and front track width nearly 3 inches wider than the Porsche 944 turbo for example and frankly staggering 9 inches across the rear axle. It only gets worse if compared to any older "classic" small nimble sports cars. The rear track on the GT86 is a whole foot wider than the old torsion bar 911s for example. This car is nothing at all like it was claimed to be and has practically nothing in common with back to basics sports cars of old.
That didn't sound right so I looked up some dimensions...The GT86 is only 40mm (1.6 inches) wider than the 944T (and 50mm shorter and 10mm higher).
The narrowbody 80's 911 is 120mm (4.7 inches) narrower than the GT86, but the widebody version is 50mm (2 inches) wider.
Perhaps you should do a little research before posting in future. I'd say they've done well to keep the GT86 as compact as it is given modern safety requirements etc. They really look small and compact on the road too, good looking cars.
Maybe you're just trying to emulate the modern journalism being discussed - exaggerated, overly opinionated attention-seeking with little genuine information to back it up.
Edited by GravelBen on Sunday 25th January 02:33
http://gt86.com.au/aussie-specs/ lists GT86 rear track as 1640 mm
http://www.tune86.com/toyota-gt-86-technical-specs... lists rear track as 1640 mm
Toyota list the rear track as 1540 so quite a type on those sites, 1540 sounds much more realistic but its still makes the rear track 4" wider on the GT86 than a car which is 200 Kg or so heavier.
Maybe you can explain why having such wide track widths for what is supposed to be a small compact sports car emulating old fashioned sportscar handling virtues is required for safety?
Maybe you could be less of an a
hole when posting in your holier than though tone on PH? Looking at the number of posts you have accumulated on this site your are an incredible hypocrite to point at other people as opinionated and attention seeking. Take a loooong look in that mirror.Claudia Skies said:
2-door coupes simply don't sell well in UK. There's a long list of models with disappointing sales.
BMW hit the "magic button" by selling 2-door saloons instead. Also the 911 is IMO a 2-door saloon. In descending order of popularity what people actually want/buy is,
1. Big lumpen SUVs - big sales. Wave that willy or perfect for the timid lady driver
2. Shopping cars - huge sales. They work. And some over-priced versions have big engines.
3. Saloons/estates - moderate sales. They work. And some have big engines.
4. Sportscars - tiny sales. They need to look the part and the roof needs to be practical.
A 911 is a 2 door saloon? No it isn't, that's just rubbish. BMW hit the "magic button" by selling 2-door saloons instead. Also the 911 is IMO a 2-door saloon. In descending order of popularity what people actually want/buy is,
1. Big lumpen SUVs - big sales. Wave that willy or perfect for the timid lady driver
2. Shopping cars - huge sales. They work. And some over-priced versions have big engines.
3. Saloons/estates - moderate sales. They work. And some have big engines.
4. Sportscars - tiny sales. They need to look the part and the roof needs to be practical.
2 door coupes sell fine if they have the right badge. Look at the Audi TT.
DonkeyApple said:
You may be making the small error of thinking that they drive the cars? A lot of this basic journalism is just the taking of the press release, a quick Google to see what others have said and then the filling out of a standard article template with referencing to some pre-stored metrics such as the boot size and speed of a competitor.
The reason most articles read like the journalist hasn't driven the car, may even have not seen it and the article seems somewhat generic or doesn't cover any subjective aspects is probably because he hasn't driven the car.
Even when they do drive the car it is on the manufacturer's designed route and they are told what to say etc.
It's the curse of mass produced media. most of it is total junk and made up.
Thanks for that post DA. Saves me posting something similar.The reason most articles read like the journalist hasn't driven the car, may even have not seen it and the article seems somewhat generic or doesn't cover any subjective aspects is probably because he hasn't driven the car.
Even when they do drive the car it is on the manufacturer's designed route and they are told what to say etc.
It's the curse of mass produced media. most of it is total junk and made up.
Same old same old journo regurgitation. If so-and-so said that about the car, must be kosher! Spread and reinforce the bad-mouth word.
Anyway, as long as it has five cup holders and the plastic "feels" nice, who needs a car to go round corners? .. anyone can do that ... Suits me ...
Devil2575 said:
A 911 is a 2 door saloon? No it isn't, that's just rubbish.
2 door coupes sell fine if they have the right badge. Look at the Audi TT.
So, apart from shouting "rubbish", where are the figures which support your claim? I put it to you that the combined UK sales of the cars you have mentioned represent only a tiny proportion of the UK car market.2 door coupes sell fine if they have the right badge. Look at the Audi TT.
Meanwhile, here's a list of some 2-door coupes with disappointing sales,
Ford Probe
Ford Cougar
Ford Puma
Vauxhall Astra GTC
Vauxhall Tigra
Mercedes A-class (2-door)
Nissan 200
Rover 200 coupe
Peugeot RCZ
The short answer "Not from where I'm sat, reading".
I can't think of the last time I read a car review, especially of something German that didn't say for example that the springs rates are too high for pleasant progress or that it the general ride,feel,handling,shear mechanical grip would all be better if it ran slightly smaller wheels and tyres that aren't a smear of black paint on the rim.
But does anyone take heed? Seemingly few.
I can't think of the last time I read a car review, especially of something German that didn't say for example that the springs rates are too high for pleasant progress or that it the general ride,feel,handling,shear mechanical grip would all be better if it ran slightly smaller wheels and tyres that aren't a smear of black paint on the rim.
But does anyone take heed? Seemingly few.
My view is that every journalist who uses terms such as 'rifle bolt gearchange', 'spinning-up the wheels ' , 'roll on acceleration', 'razor sharp turn in' etc should be made to drive a minicab - one week for every offence. And anybody who says 'sat' instead of 'sitting ' should be shot.
Claudia Skies said:
Devil2575 said:
A 911 is a 2 door saloon? No it isn't, that's just rubbish.
2 door coupes sell fine if they have the right badge. Look at the Audi TT.
So, apart from shouting "rubbish", where are the figures which support your claim? I put it to you that the combined UK sales of the cars you have mentioned represent only a tiny proportion of the UK car market.2 door coupes sell fine if they have the right badge. Look at the Audi TT.
Meanwhile, here's a list of some 2-door coupes with disappointing sales,
Ford Probe
Ford Cougar
Ford Puma
Vauxhall Astra GTC
Vauxhall Tigra
Mercedes A-class (2-door)
Nissan 200
Rover 200 coupe
Peugeot RCZ
Yes those cars sold poorly because they have the wrong badge. A Merc A class 2 door is a hatch back surely?
Puma did ok because it was affordable for the yoof and actually had a hatchback so was practical.
A coupe is a car driven by people who don't need practicality or it's a second car. Image is important and so Vauxhall, Ford or Nissan badges just aren't going to cut it. Nissan had a bit of a step up in image due to the connection with the Skyline but it didn't come soon enough to save the 200sx. Even then I suspect the Audi TT sells in much bigger numbers than the 370z. BMW 3 Series coupe also sells very well.
Edited by Devil2575 on Sunday 25th January 18:40
My pet hate is the way that most manufacturers especially of the cars with upmarket pretensions send cars for road tests with every (over-priced) option on the list ticked, which could add 20%+ to the price. When are magazines going to have the guts to send back any car that isn't straight out of the box, buyers of a car that is over £30k have a right to know if it is good enough in its standard form.
NJH said:
Maybe you can explain why having such wide track widths for what is supposed to be a small compact sports car emulating old fashioned sportscar handling virtues is required for safety?
Leave enough space for two above-average sized people in decent seats with a drive tunnel in between them, then make your doors thick enough for the required side intrusion bars as well as window and locking mechanisms etc... you'll end up at a minimum practical width of the passenger cell, which is a fairly major factor in dictating how wide the track has to be - even a Fiesta (with no drive tunnel to think about) is only ~50mm narrower than a GT86.I'm using total width figures because that seems much more relevant than the track when you're talking about how compact a car is.
Edited by GravelBen on Monday 26th January 02:53
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