RE: Porsche 911 GT3 vs The Track

[Dan Trent]

thegreenhell said:

Dan Trent said:

...and the car parks of Eiffel hostelries.

Would that be the Eiffel Tower, or did you mean the Eifel (one 'f') region of Germany?

It was correct in my original copy; it appears I've been mis-subbed. Grr, etc.

Dan

[monthefish]

the article said:

Rather they've gone the opposite direction, rear-axle steering able to effectively shorten the wheelbase to make the 991 feel more pointy and aggressive than before,

But only below 31mph.

Above this the rears wheels go the same way as the fronts, which will effectively lengthen the wheelbase making it less pointy and aggresive.

[Dan Trent]

monthefish said:

But only below 31mph.

Above this the rears wheels go the same way as the fronts, which will effectively lengthen the wheelbase making it less pointy and aggresive.

Given conditions I was below 31mph quite a lot of the time, Vale complex a case in point! Though you're right to point this out. Bottom line is it's a trick in the technological toolbox the car has - where and when it happens is ultimately something the chassis team can fine tune but compared with 997 GT3s I've driven that initial understeer phase (assuming you're not in a puddle, obviously) is notable by its absence and whether that's due to the four-wheel steering or what is something for further exploration. And that lack of understeer is one of the reasons it feels pointier I'd venture.

And as for the question about steering feel that's something I'd feel happier commenting on if I'd driven it in the dry. Certainly you could feel the front tyres letting go through the wheel when they hit water but it was so binary there was no 'feel' as such - there was either grip or there wasn't. Quite often the latter!

There's more to come on this tomorrow too, in the unlikely case you're feeling short changed!

Cheers,

Dan

[FER4L]

Nah, got to be something wrong with that new-fangled autobox thing - the old one went OK in the wet!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detai...

:-)

[AndrewD]

juansolo said:

...and yet I still have no interest in one or any other electronic wonder car. Maybe I'm getting old...?

Yup

[Kolbenkopp]

Very piece and vids, *thanks*! Somewhat scary tho.

Made me think of a recent interview with Walter Roehrl [1]. Asked about what changed for him, now 68 and with 40+ years of motor sports under his belt:

"Today I think more about what could happen. And this from a technical perspective. I still do not think that I'll make a mistake, but the modern cars I test have become so damn fast that the Nürburgring has more or less already become too dangerous. Recently with the turbo, I drove at 309 kp/h over the crest and thought: if anything at all happens now [goes wrong with the car], I'll fly right to the Dorint Hotel. Such things I have not thought of earlier."

http://www.autorevue.at/motorblog/walter-roehrl-in...

[shipoftheseus]

V8KSN said:

Anthony Fraser said:

If anyone can explain the logic of what seems like dipping the clutch mid-oversteer situation I'd love to hear from you

Would it not help to dip the clutch (in this case pull both paddles) to limit any damage to the engine if you find yourself suddenly going backwards at speed?

Yes, pulling the clutch in in a spin would stop you from damaging the engine, if the car was to run backwards while in a forward gear, but prior to that in a case of sudden power oversteer would disengage drive to the wheels. The reasoning is that if the clutch is engaged but power was suddenly shut off it would effectively create a negative or braking torque across the back axle, which would then give a similar effect to applying the rear brakes, potentially sending the car into a spin. By disengaging the drive the rears are effectively freewheeling, allowing the vehicle to stabilise in a more natural manner,uncorrupted by the effects of accelerative or negative torque. It may even open up the diff, so that neither wheel is loaded. If that's what you're asking, or have I just been guilty of stating the bleedin' obvious?

Edited by shipoftheseus on Tuesday 27th January 05:47

[Hasbeen]

God I'm glad I raced in the 60s, when I didn't have to worry about some fool electronics trying to second guess me, when I had a moment.

A nice simple Hewland box, a real clutch, & a gear stick. Heaven.

Hell up until the last year, I had a proper car, & didn't even have to pretend it was an aircraft, & tune the damn wings.

[mrclav]

P4ROT said:

Awesome, but still a shame they went for a paddle-shift.

Edit: those wheels are ridiculous as well - way too big.

Having now used the paddle-shift in anger I have to now say I disagree. Also those wheels are utterly gorgeous IMO - it's the rear lights that offend me, the look distinctly aftermarket...

[The Bandit]

flyingscot68 said:

I was lucky enough to spend some time in the passenger seat of one of these round Oulton last November.

The pace this car could get round at was very impressive to say the least, amazing grip and stability everywhere.

It was far too fast for it ever to be dull from the pax seat, amazing car.

Lotus on Track day? If so then yes the white GT3 at Oulton looked and sounded immense.
Peddled extremely well by the look and faster than anything else there by some margin.
Not usually a pork fan(ooh missus) but massive amounts of want for a GT3...

[s m]

Is there a new GT2 coming out soon?

[Magic919]

Haven't seen any signs of a GT2 soon.

[c_seven]

I believe the explanation of the pulling both paddles function from Porsche is the corporate 'PG' version of - it's for people that want to slide around in their GT3's - Not a personal preference, but I remember a certain Mr Harris's first video review of the car he explained that this was in response to a demand from previous manual GT3 drivers to be able to 'Clutch Kick' to initiate a drift. A quick Google search revealed this - http://www.driftingstreet.com/clutch-kick-drifting...

[Magic919]

Andreas called it doughnut mode at the launch. Watch this part of the video of his interview by Evo https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1421914688&a...

[GordonF430]

It was my GT3 at Oulton. That was the first time on track in it. Went out taking it easy at first (it was late Oct so slippy and damp and the car was brand new!)and it still drove past everything else (not bragging, my Atom would have simply spent the entire time trying to kill me (which is 1/2 the fun)- this thing as long as you listened, just gripped and went).

I had a 997 Gt3 before it and didn't initially order the new one due to flappy padals.

Then I drove one - jesus - the shift is insane. I love heel and toe, loved the gear change in the 997, the motorsport clutch and gearbox took some work and coordination, but the new PDK is simply epic. he shift is instant. Want to up or down shift mid corner, go for it, not change of balance, superb. Turn in is better, traction is better, pace is fantastic. Trying to not accrue points every time you drive it is a bit harder though.

I drove mine across the moors on snow and ice in the Scottish Borders this weekend. Steering feedback is good, weighting illustrates the changing surface also, and compared to the steering weight in the dry there is a fair difference.

In a straight line you need to watch the revs, as it will break traction once you get past 5/6k rpm in the wet - the engine really starts to wake up at this point and by 7k its readying itself for the final 8-9k which is simply superb. Race-car-esk howl, and major acceleration.

The car is more twitchy at the limit, partly I suspect as the tyres/geo/track give it far higher cornering ability (you need to really have a go to upset it) and with some tyres you get a real snap back as it catches again. I used to notice a difference in this between A048s and R888 on my Loti. This is the case with the new GT3. My old Gt3 was far far easier to drift, but wouldn't see which way the new one had gone.

Nice things about the lack of traction at this time of year is that the slides are more progressive, and easier to start (without brute force)and it doesn't get so snappy coming out of them.

If you don't like flappy padals, I understand, but everyone that has been in my GT3 has been won over, genuinely - even the most stuborn manual fans (like myself!). Experiencing the change at 9k rpm full throttle is hilarious. Only slight issue from doing this was at Oulton I had the fuel warning light on (less than 50 mile range) with 3/4 of a tank left...what a bloody great day that was!

Wishing I'd brought it to work now

Edited by GordonF430 on Tuesday 27th January 10:35

[timmeh2k]

mrclav said:

aving now used the paddle-shift in anger I have to now say I disagree. Also those wheels are utterly gorgeous IMO - it's the rear lights that offend me, the look distinctly aftermarket...

Have to agree with you on the wheels, I think they are the nicest wheels I've seen on a production porsche in recent times

[mwstewart]

timmeh2k said:

mrclav said:

aving now used the paddle-shift in anger I have to now say I disagree. Also those wheels are utterly gorgeous IMO - it's the rear lights that offend me, the look distinctly aftermarket...

Have to agree with you on the wheels, I think they are the nicest wheels I've seen on a production porsche in recent times

Wheels are awesome.

[FER4L]

Kolbenkopp said:

Very piece and vids, *thanks*! Somewhat scary tho.

Made me think of a recent interview with Walter Roehrl [1]. Asked about what changed for him, now 68 and with 40+ years of motor sports under his belt:

"Today I think more about what could happen. And this from a technical perspective. I still do not think that I'll make a mistake, but the modern cars I test have become so damn fast that the Nürburgring has more or less already become too dangerous. Recently with the turbo, I drove at 309 kp/h over the crest and thought: if anything at all happens now [goes wrong with the car], I'll fly right to the Dorint Hotel. Such things I have not thought of earlier."

http://www.autorevue.at/motorblog/walter-roehrl-in...

A nice article and an interesting read - thanks

[andrew]

AndrewD said:

juansolo said:

...and yet I still have no interest in one or any other electronic wonder car. Maybe I'm getting old...?

Yup

^ subject matter expert

[Nurburgsingh]

Looks like you need to do some work on your wet lines at Silverstone...