The war on NOx and diesel...

The war on NOx and diesel...

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Discussion

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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They've already addressed the NOx issue in the latest Euro 6 regs for diesel emissions. If anything I would expect to see tax breaks continue for the newer, lower emission cars rather than VED being increased because of the "NOx peril".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_sta...


Fleckers

2,851 posts

200 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
my car is only available with a diesel engine

its a 3.0 V6 turbo diesel

I would be happy with a 4+ v8 petrol in same shell

Claudia Skies

1,098 posts

115 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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Trif said:
Seeing as NOx is a diesel problem, why not increase the duty on diesel fuel to counteract?
I think the answer is because it would hit,
  • Lorries
  • Buses
for which diesel engines still seem the best solution. Their emissions have been cleaned up enormously.

By the way, taking a lorry which is more then a couple of years old into London will land you with a clean air charge (like congestion charge, but a much bigger area covering the whole of London) of £200 a day!!

JonnyVTEC

3,000 posts

174 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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DAVEVO9 said:
You will be waiting a very long time.

Never happen again.. nowhere near enough torque
Optimus Prime is a petrol truck. He has alot of talk.

RizzoTheRat

25,083 posts

191 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
Trif said:
RizzoTheRat said:
but I admit this approach wouldn't work if the focus shifted to NOx emissions rather than CO2
Seeing as NOx is a diesel problem, why not increase the duty on diesel fuel to counteract?
The problem with that is it is more of a diesel issue at the moment, but as mentioned new legislation will force that down, and the technology does exist to reduce it a lot (I'm a bit out of date, I stopped working in combustion research in 2001 and gas turbines are a easier in a lot of ways than reciprocating engines, but we were doing a lot of work on NOx reduction then as it's an even bigger problem in the upper atmosphere). You then be back in the situation where a new cleaner burning engine would be costing the same in tax as an older more polluting one.

Of course one way of improving inner city air quality which would be heresy to mention on here would be to invest in the railways and cleaner public transport and keep all the cars out of cities.

AC43

11,433 posts

207 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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kambites said:
Good! Diesels in city centres are hateful things.
Couldn't agree more. The stinky clattery things have no place in inner London. I get overtaken by loads of them as I cycle to work and the noise as they gun it past is truly unpleasant.

scherzkeks

4,460 posts

133 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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AC43 said:
Couldn't agree more. The stinky clattery things have no place in inner London. I get overtaken by loads of them as I cycle to work and the noise as they gun it past is truly unpleasant.
As if petrols are so much better. Take a jaunt around any high-traffic area in NYC, Washington, DC, or any large American city, and you still need a gas mask.

The problem would seem to be automotive traffic in city centers.eek

Iang84

962 posts

165 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
Lorries and busses are often way ahead of cars when it comes to emission standards our old 2003 trucks were euro iv emissions and the newer trucks that were coming in when I got off the road 6yrs ago were already running euro v with adblue systems at the same time my 2009 car is only euro iv standard.

I would have thought that some of the trucks/busses are running euro vi and possibly looking towards euro vii standards by now

rob.e

2,861 posts

277 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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Terminator X said:
Would be brilliant to see them switch away from CO2 and punish the dirty diesels especially as people switched over just to save a few hundred notes a year rofl I didn't switch away from petrol so hopefully will be able to smile smugly about the whole sorry affair.

TX.
Increasing tax on diesels? Yep, likely.

Reduced tax on petrols? Nope, can't see that happening tbh.

Contigo

3,113 posts

208 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
Been known for ages that Diesels are the dirtiest engines. Do as Berlin has done and ban them all from town and city centres. It really is about time we found an alternative to the combustion engine for everyday boring cars and leave the petrol engines to the big V6's and above performance cars.


r11co

6,244 posts

229 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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aw51 121565 said:
Said "news" reminds me of the name of a German synthpop band who sang "Duel" - it was the theme tune to Top Gear's coverage of the Lombard RAC Rally for a few years wink.
The lyrics of that song are kind of appropriate too..

"The first cut won't hurt at all, the second only makes you wonder. The third will have you on your knees....."

Edited by r11co on Tuesday 27th January 11:21

AC43

11,433 posts

207 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
scherzkeks said:
As if petrols are so much better. Take a jaunt around any high-traffic area in NYC, Washington, DC, or any large American city, and you still need a gas mask.
I've never noticed much pollution in NYC or DC TBH. Or London for that matter apart from clouds of soot coming out of some diesels.

It's the noise of diesel that gets me.

Plus of course the fact that it turns out that they are poisoning me with Nox and particulates.





jmorgan

36,010 posts

283 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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AC43 said:
scherzkeks said:
As if petrols are so much better. Take a jaunt around any high-traffic area in NYC, Washington, DC, or any large American city, and you still need a gas mask.
I've never noticed much pollution in NYC or DC TBH. Or London for that matter apart from clouds of soot coming out of some diesels.

It's the noise of diesel that gets me.

Plus of course the fact that it turns out that they are poisoning me with Nox and particulates.
I did, in New York.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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The Turbonator said:
I think Diesel engines are already being pushed beyond their limits in terms of economy and pollution.

You're constantly hearing about DPF failures, EGR valve failures, turbo failures, DMF failures, etc etc.

The reason I stuck with petrol was because of all the horror stories I hear on these forums. Diesels make a lot of sense for company car drivers, short term PCP deals and long distance driving. But for my own personal car, that I plan to keep for many years, then no thanks.
Do you always believe what you read on the Internet? Most diesel drivers like me have had no such issues. I prefer how diesels drive . I am not on first name terms with my local Esso attendant. So a very happy owner, like 99% are..

swisstoni

16,844 posts

278 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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Fleckers said:
my car is only available with a diesel engine

its a 3.0 V6 turbo diesel

I would be happy with a 4+ v8 petrol in same shell
Exactly. Certainly in this market the petrol version (if there is one) is put at the top of the range and everything underneath is diesel. I'd happily chose petrol over diesel but the choice often isn't there.

Sheepshanks

32,519 posts

118 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
Contigo said:
Been known for ages that Diesels are the dirtiest engines. Do as Berlin has done and ban them all from town and city centres. It really is about time we found an alternative to the combustion engine for everyday boring cars and leave the petrol engines to the big V6's and above performance cars.
Maybe that's the answer. There's a school of thought that the latest small turbo petrol engines are even worse than diesels:

"It may be surprising to learn that the modern gasoline direct-injection (GDI) engines in today’s passenger cars can emit more hazardous fine particulate matter than a port fuel-injected engine (PFI), or even the latest heavy-duty diesels equipped with a particulate filter"

http://articles.sae.org/13624/

knitware

1,473 posts

192 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
Some of you guys, jeeze…are you really that quick to react?
The government says diesels are now bad so you must all quickly change your cars to petrol and some of you guys are considering this, are you really that easily led? Think about it for one second.


Internal combustion engines and similar are polluting, petrol, diesel, electric, hydrogen they all make a mess so don’t panic, keep your diesel car you will be fine. If you don’t want to kick out NOX then walk or cycle everywhere.

RizzoTheRat

25,083 posts

191 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
knitware said:
Some of you guys, jeeze…are you really that quick to react?
The government says diesels are now bad so you must all quickly change your cars to petrol and some of you guys are considering this, are you really that easily led? Think about it for one second.
Are you reading the same thread as me? The majority of posts here are diesel haters taking the opportunity to bash diesels again biggrin

xxChrisxx

538 posts

120 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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The Turbonator said:
Power output then?
Is probably a good way to go about it, though its still not without it's foibles.

As a plus side, it's likely to stop the silly power arms race that you are seeing from manufacturers but make cars more drivable. A case in point is the Fiat 500 with the EU6 engine cal. No power at the bottom end because it's not needed on the NEDC, but is in real life but the same power figure.


Although taxing on CO2/km (which is effectively a metric of fuel economy) is still a very good way to do it, it just requires a more representative drive cycle to be used.

xxChrisxx

538 posts

120 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
jmorgan said:
I did, in New York.
We stepped out of the hotel and you just got hit in the face with the smell of rich running V8s. You could cut the air with a cricket stump.

Great city though.