Manual or 8 speed automatic?

Manual or 8 speed automatic?

Poll: Manual or 8 speed automatic?

Total Members Polled: 198

6 speed manual: 42%
8 speed auto: 58%
Author
Discussion

jamieduff1981

8,022 posts

139 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
That engine will be one of the least rewarding engines to wring out with a manual gearbox imaginable.

Nice chassis ruined by a hateful engine with a narrow usable rev range. Get the auto and let the ZF8 mask the misery a bit.

beanbag

Original Poster:

7,346 posts

240 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
I drive a 320d manual and have tried both the auto version of mine (2007 E90) and the latest automatic box in my friend's 2014 520d. The new auto is very good for an auto, and better than BMWs of old, and I'd recommend it to someone who likes automatics, but I'd take the manual every single time. My reasoning is very simple: I enjoy driving and don't ever drive in towns (as in never - I don't even go to the shops at the weekend). If I didn't enjoy driving or lived in a town then I would buy a more reliable make of car and I wouldn't be paying a premium for rear wheel drive. Each to their own, but I think it's a highly personal decision. If I was the type of guy who drove any old car Monday to Friday on the daily commute, who wasn't interested in throttle control or handling etc, then for sure, once I'd swapped the BMW for a Honda or Toyota, I'd have an automatic. I think most people on PH are like that, so I suspect the poll will favour the auto.

I'd recommend doing what I did and trying both. It was an easy decision for me once I'd done that, and hopefully it will be for you too.
Cheers, that's the plan tonight. The problem is people berate diesels while a modern diesel can give you a lot of fun. People will laugh at me, but I've kept up Porsche Boxters, and Merc S350's (from memory) on very hilly, twisty roads in my 116d. I'm not saying I'm a great driver (I have many friends who are much better than me), but I think a lot of it is down the driver and actually knowing how to drive a car properly on fun roads.

Like I said, I'll try the auto but I'm apprehensive. I'm just keen to try the manual variant too but interesting opinions so far.

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
jamieduff1981 said:
That engine will be one of the least rewarding engines to wring out with a manual gearbox imaginable.

Nice chassis ruined by a hateful engine with a narrow usable rev range. Get the auto and let the ZF8 mask the misery a bit.
Have you ever driven one?! It's very different from your average diesel from Audi, Ford etc. Sure, it's not a great engine, it's a rattly diesel, but it's certainly not got a narrow rev range. You can hold one gear throughout most corners right up to the end of where you finish cornering without having to change up (my criteria for a flexible engine).

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
beanbag said:
RobM77 said:
I drive a 320d manual and have tried both the auto version of mine (2007 E90) and the latest automatic box in my friend's 2014 520d. The new auto is very good for an auto, and better than BMWs of old, and I'd recommend it to someone who likes automatics, but I'd take the manual every single time. My reasoning is very simple: I enjoy driving and don't ever drive in towns (as in never - I don't even go to the shops at the weekend). If I didn't enjoy driving or lived in a town then I would buy a more reliable make of car and I wouldn't be paying a premium for rear wheel drive. Each to their own, but I think it's a highly personal decision. If I was the type of guy who drove any old car Monday to Friday on the daily commute, who wasn't interested in throttle control or handling etc, then for sure, once I'd swapped the BMW for a Honda or Toyota, I'd have an automatic. I think most people on PH are like that, so I suspect the poll will favour the auto.

I'd recommend doing what I did and trying both. It was an easy decision for me once I'd done that, and hopefully it will be for you too.
Cheers, that's the plan tonight. The problem is people berate diesels while a modern diesel can give you a lot of fun. People will laugh at me, but I've kept up Porsche Boxters, and Merc S350's (from memory) on very hilly, twisty roads in my 116d. I'm not saying I'm a great driver (I have many friends who are much better than me), but I think a lot of it is down the driver and actually knowing how to drive a car properly on fun roads.

Like I said, I'll try the auto but I'm apprehensive. I'm just keen to try the manual variant too but interesting opinions so far.
yes It just depends where you get your pleasure. If you want a car with four seats, a tow bar and a roof rack, then there are fewer better handling cars for sensible money than the 3 series (all subjective of course - it's my favourite handling saloon anyway). If handling is your priority, and 0-60 in sub 8 is good enough for you and you've no particular desire for another 100bhp, then it'll be absolutely fine. If you do love a good engine though and are going to miss that extra performance, do have a look at a 330i. However, I came from a Z4 Coupé and of course I miss the engine, but I reckon the handling's actually better overall in the 3 series and, being used to much faster cars, the performance difference between them isn't really significant for me. What is essential for me to enjoy the car though is a manual gearbox. For me to go to an auto would be like a halfway step to something front wheel drive...

Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 27th January 15:44

thatdude

2,654 posts

126 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
Go with the auto, those 8 speed ZF's are really good and they'll maximise fuel economy over the manual. Slightly more complex, but I dont think there has been many problems with them. I dont know about servicing but ZF do recommend servicing their transmissions

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
jamieduff1981 said:
That engine will be one of the least rewarding engines to wring out with a manual gearbox imaginable.

Nice chassis ruined by a hateful engine with a narrow usable rev range. Get the auto and let the ZF8 mask the misery a bit.
Have you ever driven one?! It's very different from your average diesel from Audi, Ford etc. Sure, it's not a great engine, it's a rattly diesel, but it's certainly not got a narrow rev range. You can hold one gear throughout most corners right up to the end of where you finish cornering without having to change up (my criteria for a flexible engine).
Rob, the red line is at just over 5k.

oop north

1,592 posts

127 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
I'm generally an auto fan - but it's got to be up to you, really. I would, though, recommend you take care to check if there is any pedal offset in the manual that might cause discomfort / pain on a long journey. Autos are often less of a problem for that

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
jamieduff1981 said:
That engine will be one of the least rewarding engines to wring out with a manual gearbox imaginable.

Nice chassis ruined by a hateful engine with a narrow usable rev range. Get the auto and let the ZF8 mask the misery a bit.
Have you ever driven one?! It's very different from your average diesel from Audi, Ford etc. Sure, it's not a great engine, it's a rattly diesel, but it's certainly not got a narrow rev range. You can hold one gear throughout most corners right up to the end of where you finish cornering without having to change up (my criteria for a flexible engine).
Rob, I'm beginning to wonder if you've driven one. wink

jamieduff1981

8,022 posts

139 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
jamieduff1981 said:
That engine will be one of the least rewarding engines to wring out with a manual gearbox imaginable.

Nice chassis ruined by a hateful engine with a narrow usable rev range. Get the auto and let the ZF8 mask the misery a bit.
Have you ever driven one?! It's very different from your average diesel from Audi, Ford etc. Sure, it's not a great engine, it's a rattly diesel, but it's certainly not got a narrow rev range. You can hold one gear throughout most corners right up to the end of where you finish cornering without having to change up (my criteria for a flexible engine).
Admittedly no. Is it the same engine in the 120d? If so, I have driven that a lot and likewise dismiss that as a nice chassis ruined by a hateful engine. The owner came from an S3 which I thought was st too, but she has given me permission to slap her if she ever buys a diesel again.

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
Zod said:
RobM77 said:
jamieduff1981 said:
That engine will be one of the least rewarding engines to wring out with a manual gearbox imaginable.

Nice chassis ruined by a hateful engine with a narrow usable rev range. Get the auto and let the ZF8 mask the misery a bit.
Have you ever driven one?! It's very different from your average diesel from Audi, Ford etc. Sure, it's not a great engine, it's a rattly diesel, but it's certainly not got a narrow rev range. You can hold one gear throughout most corners right up to the end of where you finish cornering without having to change up (my criteria for a flexible engine).
Rob, the red line is at just over 5k.
Yes, and you've got good usable torque from about 1800. Do you ever leave a bend 2.8 times faster than you started it? biggrinbiggrin

Yes, the narrow rev range is a known issue with most diesels, but BMW worked very hard indeed to extend it so if you love handling and driving then you can still enjoy a BMW diesel through the corners. It's not the beautiful sonorous 3 litre straight six in my Z4 Coupé, 330ci, 325i or 328i, but it certainly doesn't get in the way of enjoying the chassis, plus the diesel doesn't have that horrible top of pedal delay from a modern DBW petrol BMW that mucks up the turn in to a corner if you've braked beforehand. You're not going to enjoy straights in a diesel, but I actually enjoy the corners more than I did in the Z4 Coupé or 330ci (both DBW petrols).

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
jamieduff1981 said:
RobM77 said:
jamieduff1981 said:
That engine will be one of the least rewarding engines to wring out with a manual gearbox imaginable.

Nice chassis ruined by a hateful engine with a narrow usable rev range. Get the auto and let the ZF8 mask the misery a bit.
Have you ever driven one?! It's very different from your average diesel from Audi, Ford etc. Sure, it's not a great engine, it's a rattly diesel, but it's certainly not got a narrow rev range. You can hold one gear throughout most corners right up to the end of where you finish cornering without having to change up (my criteria for a flexible engine).
Admittedly no. Is it the same engine in the 120d? If so, I have driven that a lot and likewise dismiss that as a nice chassis ruined by a hateful engine. The owner came from an S3 which I thought was st too, but she has given me permission to slap her if she ever buys a diesel again.
Yep, same engine. I'm truly puzzled by your conclusion! We're all different though I guess. I can't stand the top of pedal lag you get with a petrol BMW, so my favourite way to enjoy the chassis is actually one of their diesel engines, despite being a petrolhead through and through. The ultimate of course is a proper cable throttle without a lag, but sadly my 328i just got too unreliable in its old age frown

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
RobM77 said:
jamieduff1981 said:
That engine will be one of the least rewarding engines to wring out with a manual gearbox imaginable.

Nice chassis ruined by a hateful engine with a narrow usable rev range. Get the auto and let the ZF8 mask the misery a bit.
Have you ever driven one?! It's very different from your average diesel from Audi, Ford etc. Sure, it's not a great engine, it's a rattly diesel, but it's certainly not got a narrow rev range. You can hold one gear throughout most corners right up to the end of where you finish cornering without having to change up (my criteria for a flexible engine).
Rob, I'm beginning to wonder if you've driven one. wink
smile I do about 40k miles a year in one - mostly sideways biggrin

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
Yes, and you've got good usable torque from about 1800. Do you ever leave a bend 2.8 times faster than you started it? biggrinbiggrin

Yes, the narrow rev range is a known issue with most diesels, but BMW worked very hard indeed to extend it so if you love handling and driving then you can still enjoy a BMW diesel through the corners. It's not the beautiful sonorous 3 litre straight six in my Z4 Coupé, 330ci, 325i or 328i, but it certainly doesn't get in the way of enjoying the chassis, plus the diesel doesn't have that horrible top of pedal delay from a modern DBW petrol BMW that mucks up the turn in to a corner if you've braked beforehand. You're not going to enjoy straights in a diesel, but I actually enjoy the corners more than I did in the Z4 Coupé or 330ci (both DBW petrols).
I spend a lot of time in our X5 40d, which has a similar redline. It handles remarkably well for its bulk and high CG, but I can't think a manual would be a good thing in it.

Not sure what corners have to do with the gearchange though.

knitware

1,473 posts

192 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
After all the advice hands up who thinks he'll by a manual 'as they are more fun'.

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
The 320d engine is really good for a 4-banger diesel. I know that is damning with faint praise, but it is a fair summary - usable rev range, decent shove and reasonably linear power delivery for a small diesel engine.

To be honest, the 320d engine is a better engine to use than a few small petrol turbo engines that spring to mind.

The 8ZF is a very good box for the engine. It is ultimately a slushomatic so not much fun for holding gears, etc, but there is a limit to the fun to be had doing that with a diesel anyway.

My wife's car is a manual 320i - the manual box is decent; the power delivery is more linear and more pleasant than the diesel; I think the manual is the better choice for that engine. But the mpg is far worse (32mpg versus, say, 48mpg), so I doubt the difference is worth it for cost-conscious people. For me, a few hundred quid a year isn't much to pay for a nicer engine, but I know that lots of people are very sensitive to mpg.

furtive

4,498 posts

278 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
Are BMW manuals still awful or have they got better?

beanbag

Original Poster:

7,346 posts

240 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
Unfortunately the diesel is a given for me. I do 600 miles per week and I simply cannot justify the extra expense of petrol costs.

BMW claim a 53% increase in fuel consumption for the 320i which would be another €2,000 at the pump. That's assuming diesel is the same price as petrol which it isn't. In Spain, diesel is about 10% cheaper so add another €200 and that's quite a hike in costs sadly frown

I'll report back when I've tried the auto. I'm off now smile

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
furtive said:
Are BMW manuals still awful or have they got better?
I had a couple (E46 330Ci and M3) and the boxes were good.

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
furtive said:
Are BMW manuals still awful or have they got better?
The manual box is the current 320i is good - a bit notchy, but I prefer that to a box that has no "mechanical" feel to it; and it is ergonomically excellent - perfect height, reasonably short throw, good return to centre.

The ratios are also pretty much perfect, except that 2 is perhaps a little long (which leaves it struggling a bit at low revs - it's not ideal to have to drop into 1 quite as often as you do).

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
quotequote all
I can't get on with autos as a rule so I'd take the manual.