RE: Jaguar XE: Driven
Discussion
Pininfarina would have wept at that being classed as good looking.
The Vambo said:
Maldini35 said:
I'll ignore your ill-informed dig and simply challenge you on your acceptance of mediocrity.
This is a brand new car. A design starting from a clean sheet of paper. Do you honestly think this is a triumph? Is this a classic in waiting?
If everybody had your attitude we would never have had the E-Type...
Oh, and you stayed very quiet about the sub-standard touch screen.
We all want Jaguar to flourish - of course we do - but if it wants to make the next step it has to improve across the board.
I can forgive an average infotainment system on the F-Type because it's a stunningly beautiful sports car.
But in a generic-styled executive saloon in which people will drive 15,000 miles a year, it is just not good enough.
A wasted opportunity to shake up the category and make the world take notice.
I am not happy about this, in fact I'm angry. And you should be too.
God, where to start?This is a brand new car. A design starting from a clean sheet of paper. Do you honestly think this is a triumph? Is this a classic in waiting?
If everybody had your attitude we would never have had the E-Type...
Oh, and you stayed very quiet about the sub-standard touch screen.
We all want Jaguar to flourish - of course we do - but if it wants to make the next step it has to improve across the board.
I can forgive an average infotainment system on the F-Type because it's a stunningly beautiful sports car.
But in a generic-styled executive saloon in which people will drive 15,000 miles a year, it is just not good enough.
A wasted opportunity to shake up the category and make the world take notice.
I am not happy about this, in fact I'm angry. And you should be too.
Jaguar tried to "shake up the category" when they launched the XJ. IT DIDN'T WORK!
You want an E-type equivalent launched in the most conservative, competitive and clearly defined segment in the whole industry?
Inoffensive, slightly attractive and respectable is what this segment demands and Jaguar have delivered.
The reason I stayed quiet about the substandard touch screen is that I don't know if it is as I suspect you don't, where did you try it? Are you basing it on today's first drives?
The reason you are angry is that you live in a fantasy land where the reality of what people actually buy is second to your Homer Simpson style car wet dream.
Ps. have you ever met XJflyer?
I look forward to the comparison tests, but as an enthusiast, I'd seriously consider the Jag if I were in the market.
kith said:
loudlashadjuster said:
bertie said:
Im not a BMW fan but knowing how much my mate 328i was, I thought that unlikely.
Sure enough, a 335i Luxury auto is £41,170 before any options.
I'm sure the Jag will be competitive on price, Merc, BMW, Audi....they all know exactly what each other are doing.
Apologies, you are correct and the 335i Luxury Touring is indeed £41k, not £38k. I was looking at an out of date price list.Sure enough, a 335i Luxury auto is £41,170 before any options.
I'm sure the Jag will be competitive on price, Merc, BMW, Audi....they all know exactly what each other are doing.
Evens things up a bit. The Jag has more power I guess to account for its higher price.
I'm not saying it's wrong, but I've never got 20% on a spec order BMW
Pesty said:
It might not have Ben practical or cost effective to make those shapes but I do agree it would have been better like that.
I've seen a glibli in the flesh and thought it looked crap.
That black xe above looked better than this
I dont remember coments of this looking bland
Not sure about bland, but I always wonder if the clay for the model was a bit too soft and it sort of melted without anyone noticing. The car looks a bit sad to me, with a fallen face. And in the process it has ended up scowling. Or maybe the designers just tried too hard with it in places and spoiled what might have been really good.I've seen a glibli in the flesh and thought it looked crap.
That black xe above looked better than this
I dont remember coments of this looking bland
Well I haven't seen one (well only in camo. near Gaydon last year) or driven one, but from what I have seen and read it seems to compare pretty well with the C Class and 3 Series which cannot be a bad start as they are surely the target market.
Anyway whatever the JLR ownership structure it is at least built in the UK so I hope it is a success; if nothing else it adds variety, which is after all the spice of life!
I no longer buy new / nearly new but have just managed to cure myself of diesel, so 12 pages in do we know if there will be a manual petrol when the F-type gets a manual option?
Just curious for 5+ years time!!
Manual 340 would be appealing, unless they keep working through the old numbers and make a 420!
Anyway whatever the JLR ownership structure it is at least built in the UK so I hope it is a success; if nothing else it adds variety, which is after all the spice of life!
I no longer buy new / nearly new but have just managed to cure myself of diesel, so 12 pages in do we know if there will be a manual petrol when the F-type gets a manual option?
Just curious for 5+ years time!!
Manual 340 would be appealing, unless they keep working through the old numbers and make a 420!
bertie said:
Market forces dictate discounts, I'm sure if Kaguar need to giv similar discounts to Audi or BMW to sell similar volumes they will.
They've said they're not going to chase volume. Probably a good job in the UK as I think they'll struggle in the company car market.Be interesting to see the US prices - I bet it'll be way cheaper there.
Sheepshanks said:
They've said they're not going to chase volume. Probably a good job in the UK as I think they'll struggle in the company car market.
Be interesting to see the US prices - I bet it'll be way cheaper there.
Why do you think they will struggle in the company car market in the UK? They have a 99g version and the residuals look good so lease costs will be competitive. From all I read those are the factors the bean counters involved in car selection want to see.Be interesting to see the US prices - I bet it'll be way cheaper there.
We'll have to wait for US prices as the XE won't be on sale there until 2016, but what has been said about the availability of various derivatives for that market answers some of the questions here, specifically the one about 4WD and possibly a manual V6 - http://blog.caranddriver.com/u-s-spec-jaguar-xe-to...
At the end of the day, Jaguar want to shift cars, not win beauty contests. They may do that for a Halo model like the F-Type, but in the volume segment and against Mondeo, 3 Series and C-Class, you have to be different enough whilst offending as few people as possible. Its mass appeal. You don't come sweeping in with a whacky design to appease the people that want to change the world overnight. People's tastes don't move that quickly when it comes to car design. The last 3 series outsold the Mondeo and was very unexciting to look at.
I think this car looks brilliant and from what I've read, offers a viable alternative to the other 3. I am 38, I am in the target market for entry level exec company cars and I would love to have one and a massive part of that would be the simple pleasure of constantly referring to my "Jag". Shall we take the Jag? I've got a Jag. The Jag is in for a service etc etc Its the little things...
It wasn't until I went from a very good Mondeo to a staggeringly mediocre E92 that I realised the perceived chasm in quality between the two is just that, a perception. Realistically, it wont have to be that good to be as good as the segment leaders and lets face it, its already substantially better looking than most of Audi's line up at the moment.
Sheepshanks said:
bertie said:
Market forces dictate discounts, I'm sure if Kaguar need to giv similar discounts to Audi or BMW to sell similar volumes they will.
They've said they're not going to chase volume. Probably a good job in the UK as I think they'll struggle in the company car market.Be interesting to see the US prices - I bet it'll be way cheaper there.
1. They don't include "tax & title" etc etc. which adds thousands (and varies from state to state).
2. Very often they quote "poverty spec" on pricelists. Options are often "bundled" which can also be very costly, and force you to buy stuff you don't really want.
3. UK prices include VAT.
4, Production volumes for US spec cars are usually higher giving economy of scale.
Considering all of this the difference between UK and US prices can be much less than it first appears.
Having said that. The drive away price you actually pay in the USA (after discounts) can be as much as 35% less than list price the nearest equivalent in the UK.
the problem is not that it looks bland or generic or older than a 7 y/o XF which it does, it is mainly that it is unashamedly inspired by the audi A5 for the back and the BMW 3 series for the side and front (put a vertical bar in the middle of the grill and you have a BMW front fascia, lamps included); and that is a failure for a company that is so proud (arrogant?) of its design culture and good taste.
they simply copied the competition like the japanese would have done 30 years ago or the chinese nowadays.
and inside it has nothing jaguar or british. it is just generic, could fit any car from the early 2000 or a category below.
maybe it catches the competition today, but BMW, Merc, Audi are already about to launch their update. a new car for Audi, a big update for the C-Class with a huge S-Class screen dash, and more refinnement for the 3 series...
they simply copied the competition like the japanese would have done 30 years ago or the chinese nowadays.
and inside it has nothing jaguar or british. it is just generic, could fit any car from the early 2000 or a category below.
maybe it catches the competition today, but BMW, Merc, Audi are already about to launch their update. a new car for Audi, a big update for the C-Class with a huge S-Class screen dash, and more refinnement for the 3 series...
snaelro said:
maybe it catches the competition today, but BMW, Merc, Audi are already about to launch their update. a new car for Audi, a big update for the C-Class with a huge S-Class screen dash, and more refinnement for the 3 series...
If nearly indications are right and it outdrives the competition, does this matter? The C Class is a pretty poor driving cars these days which no fancy dash will save.I am not a fan of the inverted banana Merc design language that they have either. Much preferred the look of the previous C Class.
SidewaysSi said:
If nearly indications are right and it outdrives the competition, does this matter? The C Class is a pretty poor driving cars these days which no fancy dash will save.
I am not a fan of the inverted banana Merc design language that they have either. Much preferred the look of the previous C Class.
With you there. The estate salvages something from the design, but the corporate front-end that Merc have settled on at the moment is...challenging.I am not a fan of the inverted banana Merc design language that they have either. Much preferred the look of the previous C Class.
SidewaysSi said:
If nearly indications are right and it outdrives the competition, does this matter? The C Class is a pretty poor driving cars these days which no fancy dash will save.
I am not a fan of the inverted banana Merc design language that they have either. Much preferred the look of the previous C Class.
First, I don't really about the C-Class but i doubt it is that bad to drive; it is probably not as engaging and sporty as the 3 series or the XE, but is not a bad car. and not everybody cares about an involving car and probably 90% of the potential buyers won't make any difference. what they will notice is that the C-class is far more luxurious than the jag, with ironically an interior that is more jaguar than a jaguar, with its wood trim and attention to details. and in terms of technology, there is no match.I am not a fan of the inverted banana Merc design language that they have either. Much preferred the look of the previous C Class.
Second, let's wait for some more road test. those first rides are PR event, on selected roads, with selected cars; every articles mention the same thing with the same words. only sometimes journos mention a noisy suspension on bumpy roads, unprecise steering in the middle point, difficult access to the back or even the font, vibrating engine or cheap interior finishes;
Edited by snaelro on Thursday 29th January 08:13
Maldini35 said:
Is this a classic in waiting?
What car in this segment is a classic? An E30? That's made famous because of one model in it's whole lineup. Probably also had something to do with being the car that changed the sector as well when it was made up of cheap slightly nasty saloons...No A4 or C class or equivalent will ever be viewed as a classic, so why should Jaguar have tried to make a classic out of a volume sector?
This comment doesn't even make any sense. The A4 and 3 series have sold well because they haven't been particularly outlandish at any MY. Even the E90 series is pointy but hardly mad looking is it?
There is no future in shooting for something wild in this sector. People in this segment simply won't buy it.
zeppelin101 said:
What car in this segment is a classic? An E30? That's made famous because of one model in it's whole lineup. Probably also had something to do with being the car that changed the sector as well when it was made up of cheap slightly nasty saloons...
No A4 or C class or equivalent will ever be viewed as a classic, so why should Jaguar have tried to make a classic out of a volume sector?
This comment doesn't even make any sense. The A4 and 3 series have sold well because they haven't been particularly outlandish at any MY. Even the E90 series is pointy but hardly mad looking is it?
There is no future in shooting for something wild in this sector. People in this segment simply won't buy it.
it is not about being mad, it is about being Jaguar, not a bad A5 mixed with a BMW 3.No A4 or C class or equivalent will ever be viewed as a classic, so why should Jaguar have tried to make a classic out of a volume sector?
This comment doesn't even make any sense. The A4 and 3 series have sold well because they haven't been particularly outlandish at any MY. Even the E90 series is pointy but hardly mad looking is it?
There is no future in shooting for something wild in this sector. People in this segment simply won't buy it.
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