RE: Jaguar XE: Driven
Discussion
unsprung said:
This proof is the XE, a car which is a Jaguar interpretation of the segment standard. "If you like an archetypal exec -- but are tired of the attitude and the utter dominance of the usual suspects -- come have a look."
This should read "If you like an archetypal exec - and are currently satisfied with your Audi/BMW but want a different badge on virtually the same package - come have a look."hackjo said:
unsprung said:
This proof is the XE, a car which is a Jaguar interpretation of the segment standard. "If you like an archetypal exec -- but are tired of the attitude and the utter dominance of the usual suspects -- come have a look."
This should read "If you like an archetypal exec - and are currently satisfied with your Audi/BMW but want a different badge on virtually the same package - come have a look."Are we talking about a car? No. We are talking about something far more powerful: a culture.
danp said:
unsprung said:
Are we talking about a car? No. We are talking about something far more powerful: a culture.
You didn't have a hand in the script for a recent 911 video featuring Driver X did you?Jaguar need to sell one or two models in decent volume in order to survive and to be able to maintain other models closer to enthusiast's hearts. Porsche had to do the Boxster and Cayenne to survive after all.
Have seen a few around the JLR plant. It looks good and the interior looks better than in the pictures. All successful manufacturers do not change their designs much and keep them similar between model ranges. Is that an A3 or an a8 further away. At least with the Jag you do not need to pay extra for a decent design unlike with the 4 series, 6 series, A5 and CL something
Most importantly Autocar stated the test car had no adaptive suspension. Supposedly vital on a 3 series but how often is it specified on a company car?
Most importantly Autocar stated the test car had no adaptive suspension. Supposedly vital on a 3 series but how often is it specified on a company car?
aero250 said:
Have seen a few around the JLR plant. It looks good and the interior looks better than in the pictures. All successful manufacturers do not change their designs much and keep them similar between model ranges. Is that an A3 or an a8 further away. At least with the Jag you do not need to pay extra for a decent design unlike with the 4 series, 6 series, A5 and CL something
Most importantly Autocar stated the test car had no adaptive suspension. Supposedly vital on a 3 series but how often is it specified on a company car?
Most importantly Autocar stated the test car had no adaptive suspension. Supposedly vital on a 3 series but how often is it specified on a company car?
To me, it feels like it fills the gap that the 159 left.
Although the styling it is not quite as 'swish' as I had wanted, I cannot see Jaguar struggling with selling the projected volumes globally. There is a lot of tosh on here about 'fleet sales' this, 'C02' that and 'infotainment system' the other. For those who do not have the imagination to look beyond the 'big three' the XE may have limited appeal, but to many other consumers, it is nice to see Jaguar returning to the compact saloon market.
IMO, the last genuinely attractive car in this sector was the Alfa 159. The best looking of the current crop is the Volvo S60. As for the Germans, well:
The Audi is dull to OK, depending upon what wheels are on it. I find the interior bland. To me the only stand out qualities are the resistance to rust and the paint finish.
I think BMW has made some nice cars in the past; indeed a quick look at Car and Classic shows how well proportioned the 80s models were, but the current range, though more attractive than the bangle era, do not have the 'athletic' appeal of the earlier cars. That you have to spend a lot of extra money to make it ride and/or handle properly seems completely preposterous for a 'premium' motor car.
As for the Mercedes, I quite liked the last one, but the new one looks like a bloated, crass version of the Rover 75, especially at the rear and the dash board (although Rover did not stick a tacky I-pad thing on the original!). Personally, if I want to drive (and enjoy the smoothness and ride quality) of a car the looks like a 75, then I can drive my parents old 75 and that comes with a manual gearbox, a characterful 6 cylinder petrol motor and I can save my self £30k + into the bargain!
To me the new VW Passat looks more appealing than the above three, but that says more about the above three than the Passat!
As for others in the sector, the Lexus IS is a much more interesting car than than most and has a V6 petrol (the hybrid is of no interest to me whatsoever) but it is the IS 350, which we don't get, that is the one I would actually want.
So against this I think the XE offers the appeal of the typical Jaguar dynamic polish in a package that would actually fit in my garage. A full range of petrol motors adds to the appeal, as does the competitive pricing of the 200 BHP version, though I would actually want the V6, if I could stretch to it.
As for the 'all buyers for this car just want a 4-pot diesel saloon' statement, that is tosh. The three cars in this price range that I would consider are all completely different and none of them are German. One is a 1.6 Lotus Elise, one is a Ford Mustang V8 and the other is the XE. Because I have access to other cars I do not need a particular type of car.
IMO, the last genuinely attractive car in this sector was the Alfa 159. The best looking of the current crop is the Volvo S60. As for the Germans, well:
The Audi is dull to OK, depending upon what wheels are on it. I find the interior bland. To me the only stand out qualities are the resistance to rust and the paint finish.
I think BMW has made some nice cars in the past; indeed a quick look at Car and Classic shows how well proportioned the 80s models were, but the current range, though more attractive than the bangle era, do not have the 'athletic' appeal of the earlier cars. That you have to spend a lot of extra money to make it ride and/or handle properly seems completely preposterous for a 'premium' motor car.
As for the Mercedes, I quite liked the last one, but the new one looks like a bloated, crass version of the Rover 75, especially at the rear and the dash board (although Rover did not stick a tacky I-pad thing on the original!). Personally, if I want to drive (and enjoy the smoothness and ride quality) of a car the looks like a 75, then I can drive my parents old 75 and that comes with a manual gearbox, a characterful 6 cylinder petrol motor and I can save my self £30k + into the bargain!
To me the new VW Passat looks more appealing than the above three, but that says more about the above three than the Passat!
As for others in the sector, the Lexus IS is a much more interesting car than than most and has a V6 petrol (the hybrid is of no interest to me whatsoever) but it is the IS 350, which we don't get, that is the one I would actually want.
So against this I think the XE offers the appeal of the typical Jaguar dynamic polish in a package that would actually fit in my garage. A full range of petrol motors adds to the appeal, as does the competitive pricing of the 200 BHP version, though I would actually want the V6, if I could stretch to it.
As for the 'all buyers for this car just want a 4-pot diesel saloon' statement, that is tosh. The three cars in this price range that I would consider are all completely different and none of them are German. One is a 1.6 Lotus Elise, one is a Ford Mustang V8 and the other is the XE. Because I have access to other cars I do not need a particular type of car.
unsprung said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Until today, Jaguar had no permission from consumers to trade in the small exec segment. 1. Jaguar had no product in this segment for some time
2. The last Jaguar product was less than competitive -- and was disparaged for the twee nostalgia of its designs
To get on the short list of acceptable alternatives, Jaguar must now prove its mettle.
This proof is the XE, a car which is a Jaguar interpretation of the segment standard. "If you like an archetypal exec -- but are tired of the attitude and the utter dominance of the usual suspects -- come have a look."
At the moment, this cannot be achieved with an unconventional design. The XE must atone for past sins. And it must appeal to a wide range of current and potential exec owners.
This is a portfolio strategy.
The XE is not merely about the small exec segment. The XE fights on volume and, as customers move up the Jaguar portfolio, the products become less about "Welcome to the family" and more about the design language of self expression.
In their sophisticated pursuit of lifetime customer value, Jaguar are showing world-class decisions.
I agree with almost everything you say. My only comment would be that criticism of the exterior design does not mean we are advocating that Jaguar make a drastic move to the wildly unconventional.
As has been said previously, this is an inherently conservative segment, but to many on this forum the new car looks just too generic.
I don't think Jaguars should look generic.
We know they can recreate a proper Jaguar for the modern age - they managed it with the F-Type - so it's frustrating to see their ambition seemingly diluted with the XE.
A little more F-Type in the XE's rear end could have worked wonders.
I hope it sells, keeps people in work and lets Jaguar build a prettier one in 7 years time.
Obviously because this is an internet forum, personal insults start flying as soon as there is a difference of opinion. I'll try harder to bite my tongue next time.
Edited by Maldini35 on Thursday 29th January 21:19
Maldini35 said:
Very interesting post.
I agree with almost everything you say. My only comment would be that criticism of the exterior design does not mean we are advocating that Jaguar make a drastic move to the wildly unconventional.
As has been said previously, this is an inherently conservative segment, but to many on this forum the new car looks just too generic.
I don't think Jaguars should look generic.
We know they can recreate a proper Jaguar for the modern age - they managed it with the F-Type - so it's frustrating to see their ambition seemingly diluted with the XE.
A little more F-Type in the XE's rear end could have worked wonders.
This.I agree with almost everything you say. My only comment would be that criticism of the exterior design does not mean we are advocating that Jaguar make a drastic move to the wildly unconventional.
As has been said previously, this is an inherently conservative segment, but to many on this forum the new car looks just too generic.
I don't think Jaguars should look generic.
We know they can recreate a proper Jaguar for the modern age - they managed it with the F-Type - so it's frustrating to see their ambition seemingly diluted with the XE.
A little more F-Type in the XE's rear end could have worked wonders.
Edited by Maldini35 on Thursday 29th January 21:19
okie592 said:
As far as the XE is concerned: I think it's as good a contender for the 3 series as it gets. However, the interior and especially the centre console, is indeed a bit of a let down. I guess that money was well spent on the aluminium chassis, instead. To all the critics: What did you expect? An XJ for XE money? That was not going to happen.
Good luck, Jag!
Interior is drab. Makes my Upcoming 3 series look modern in comparison.
...and exterior! Well they have just took the 3 series and made it prettier, curvier and stuck a hideous grill at the front.
Not inspiring to look at whatsoever I'm afraid.
However, if it drives better than the Beemer, it will sell and at the right price, could see myself getting one in the future as a co. car (if they change that grill)! especially with those Co2 figures on the oil burner.
...and exterior! Well they have just took the 3 series and made it prettier, curvier and stuck a hideous grill at the front.
Not inspiring to look at whatsoever I'm afraid.
However, if it drives better than the Beemer, it will sell and at the right price, could see myself getting one in the future as a co. car (if they change that grill)! especially with those Co2 figures on the oil burner.
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