RE: Jaguar XE: Driven
Discussion
On reflection, those rear lights do look a bit big, and s
t - I do like the car overall though and if I were in the market for such a thing (unlikely as I'll be needing an estate next time around), I'd certainly put the XE up for consideration, and without a test drive, if I had to choose right now, all prejudices included, I'd take it over any equivalent Audi or BMW, and probably the Merc C Class too as the new variants looks are a bit crap, IMO.
t - I do like the car overall though and if I were in the market for such a thing (unlikely as I'll be needing an estate next time around), I'd certainly put the XE up for consideration, and without a test drive, if I had to choose right now, all prejudices included, I'd take it over any equivalent Audi or BMW, and probably the Merc C Class too as the new variants looks are a bit crap, IMO.Maldini35 said:
Very interesting post.
I agree with almost everything you say. My only comment would be that criticism of the exterior design does not mean we are advocating that Jaguar make a drastic move to the wildly unconventional.
As has been said previously, this is an inherently conservative segment, but to many on this forum the new car looks just too generic.
I don't think Jaguars should look generic.
We know they can recreate a proper Jaguar for the modern age - they managed it with the F-Type - so it's frustrating to see their ambition seemingly diluted with the XE.
A little more F-Type in the XE's rear end could have worked wonders.
This.I agree with almost everything you say. My only comment would be that criticism of the exterior design does not mean we are advocating that Jaguar make a drastic move to the wildly unconventional.
As has been said previously, this is an inherently conservative segment, but to many on this forum the new car looks just too generic.
I don't think Jaguars should look generic.
We know they can recreate a proper Jaguar for the modern age - they managed it with the F-Type - so it's frustrating to see their ambition seemingly diluted with the XE.
A little more F-Type in the XE's rear end could have worked wonders.
Edited by Maldini35 on Thursday 29th January 21:19
The other thing that makes the German brands successful is that they are highly aspirational.
BMW for instance...
Start off with a 1 series.
Need more space? Get a 3.
Got a family and a 3 isn't big enough? Get a 5.
Making money hand over fist and need to show some status? Buy a 7.
The coupes and SUVs work in a similar fashion.
Jaguar kind of needs something similar. The best way to make money is to get people in the door, and then get them to keep coming back which is something that Land Rover has been able to do since the Range Rover was first introduced. How many people do you know who have owned a Land Rover product, might say some disparaging things about it yet always seem to end up in another one? Or say they would never own anything else?
Jaguar needs the same thing. It started with the S-Type and XF, now there is an XE so there is a natural progression throughout the Jaguar range. It's not a bad thing. It's not necessarily the volume of this car on its own that helps Jaguar, but the fact that they can introduce 80k new people to the brand and hopefully get them into more expensive products in the next 3-5 years and keep introducing 40-80k new people every year.
In that respect, this car absolutely has to work in the market place as it sets the stall out for the entire Jaguar brand from this point on.
BMW for instance...
Start off with a 1 series.
Need more space? Get a 3.
Got a family and a 3 isn't big enough? Get a 5.
Making money hand over fist and need to show some status? Buy a 7.
The coupes and SUVs work in a similar fashion.
Jaguar kind of needs something similar. The best way to make money is to get people in the door, and then get them to keep coming back which is something that Land Rover has been able to do since the Range Rover was first introduced. How many people do you know who have owned a Land Rover product, might say some disparaging things about it yet always seem to end up in another one? Or say they would never own anything else?
Jaguar needs the same thing. It started with the S-Type and XF, now there is an XE so there is a natural progression throughout the Jaguar range. It's not a bad thing. It's not necessarily the volume of this car on its own that helps Jaguar, but the fact that they can introduce 80k new people to the brand and hopefully get them into more expensive products in the next 3-5 years and keep introducing 40-80k new people every year.
In that respect, this car absolutely has to work in the market place as it sets the stall out for the entire Jaguar brand from this point on.
jamieduff1981 said:
Is this the C-class everyone reckons is much better than the XE?
If so, it shows how subjective this all is, because I think that C-class interior looks absolutely gopping.
Totally agree. and that's coming a Mercedes owner.If so, it shows how subjective this all is, because I think that C-class interior looks absolutely gopping.
The most recent range of Mercedes seem to have foregone the understated solidity that the previous generation retained from models going back to the 1970s*, for a superficial bling that is in no way as nice to look at, operate or, I'd wager, to own.
It's all shiny dust- and fingerprint-attracting plastic, and the heater controls etc. don't seem to have the same tactile qualities as the W204, W212 etc.
The XF on the other hand is a lovely place to be, and I'm hoping the XE is the same.
*There's a great bit in the most recent Merc magazine showing the lineage of centre console design from 1970s to date.
jamieduff1981 said:
Is this the C-class everyone reckons is much better than the XE?
If so, it shows how subjective this all is, because I think that C-class interior looks absolutely gopping.
...it is, and that's the best picture I've ever seen of the C Class dash. There was an advert for C Class on TV the other night and they only showed a couple of quick partial shots of the dash, completely avoiding the screen. If so, it shows how subjective this all is, because I think that C-class interior looks absolutely gopping.
It's being changed on the facelift.
Sheepshanks said:
It's being changed on the facelift.
Ive seen that full screen spy shop putting a larger screen that sweeps from the cluster to the centre to replace the ipad. But i expect that will be on the higher spec variants rather than changing every car. I imagine the Tablet will stay on the entry car.unsprung said:
Until today, Jaguar had no permission from consumers to trade in the small exec segment.
1. Jaguar had no product in this segment for some time
2. The last Jaguar product was less than competitive -- and was disparaged for the twee nostalgia of its designs
To get on the short list of acceptable alternatives, Jaguar must now prove its mettle.
This proof is the XE, a car which is a Jaguar interpretation of the segment standard. "If you like an archetypal exec -- but are tired of the attitude and the utter dominance of the usual suspects -- come have a look."
At the moment, this cannot be achieved with an unconventional design. The XE must atone for past sins. And it must appeal to a wide range of current and potential exec owners.
This is a portfolio strategy.
The XE is not merely about the small exec segment. The XE fights on volume and, as customers move up the Jaguar portfolio, the products become less about "Welcome to the family" and more about the design language of self expression.
In their sophisticated pursuit of lifetime customer value, Jaguar are showing world-class decisions.
I agree with your perceptive analysis. Jaguar has to get back into the game. It is nowhere at the moment in global market terms - F-Type excepted. The XE and the F-Pace are key to achieving that aim.1. Jaguar had no product in this segment for some time
2. The last Jaguar product was less than competitive -- and was disparaged for the twee nostalgia of its designs
To get on the short list of acceptable alternatives, Jaguar must now prove its mettle.
This proof is the XE, a car which is a Jaguar interpretation of the segment standard. "If you like an archetypal exec -- but are tired of the attitude and the utter dominance of the usual suspects -- come have a look."
At the moment, this cannot be achieved with an unconventional design. The XE must atone for past sins. And it must appeal to a wide range of current and potential exec owners.
This is a portfolio strategy.
The XE is not merely about the small exec segment. The XE fights on volume and, as customers move up the Jaguar portfolio, the products become less about "Welcome to the family" and more about the design language of self expression.
In their sophisticated pursuit of lifetime customer value, Jaguar are showing world-class decisions.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I agree in some ways and I never liked the steering on the one I had as a loan car and I don't like the steering on the 640d either(electric as well so you struggle to know what the front wheels are doing).The 2.0d engine is noisy and unrefined but that engine is regardless of manufacturer(the 3 litre is better but still not amazing) so I totally get where you are coming from.
I like BMW`s mainly and usually they are really good to drive and feel fairly well screwed together but they are losing their way in some ways currently.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
^^^This^^^ Every time.Said it before il say it again. Jaguar`s were always better specced & priced as standard than equivalent BMW/Mercedes products & in all fairness the X300/308 models were as reliable as other manufacturers, if not more so.
Our then CEO had both incarnations, X300 twice, did circa 1k miles a week & really only had service as schedule (10k IIRC). Dealer was W
k, & still is, but the cars did 3 years each no problem.I hope this car works for JLR & I would consider it myself but I know XF is too small for my needs so no point in even looking at it.
That said Il be availing myself of it when the local dealer offers our company a loaner.
SidewaysSi said:
Our local BMW dealer is crap beyond belief so I would be hard pushed to believe the equivalent Jag dealer can possibly be worse.
Besides Jag have topped JD power tables for a while and I believe they include dealer quality in their analysis.
Same, incredibly crap BMW and Alfa dealerships near me. The Mercedes one is great though. Besides Jag have topped JD power tables for a while and I believe they include dealer quality in their analysis.
SidewaysSi said:
Our local BMW dealer is crap beyond belief so I would be hard pushed to believe the equivalent Jag dealer can possibly be worse.
Besides Jag have topped JD power tables for a while and I believe they include dealer quality in their analysis.
Admittedly my experience of dealerships for the "premium" brands is fairly limited, but Jaguar have always offered a far better dealer experience in my experience than Vauxhall. Besides Jag have topped JD power tables for a while and I believe they include dealer quality in their analysis.
Whenever I needed a courtesy car it was provided. They also replaced my gearbox free of charge when it was 3-6 months outside the warranty period.
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