RE: Lotus Exige Automatic spec confirmed

[Gary C]

CraigyMc said:

Gary C said:

kambites said:

Hmm, not convinced by a slush-box in an Exige but we shall see.

Is it a slush box though ?

A torque converter would be horrendous on an exige but I can't believe they would use one.

It is. It's an Aisin Warner U660E.

Yuk yuk yuk !

A DSG or a real sequential, then maybe. But a slush box! No fkiNGWAY !

Have lotus lost their minds(soul)?

[andyps]

Gary C said:

Have lotus lost their minds(soul)?

Probably not, but it has added in an element of business logic and recognised that to do what they really want they need to survive, and that means a few compromises along the way. Do we want a Lotus that makes a manual and automatic Exige, or one that makes neither because it is out of business? The answer for me is easy.

[Gary C]

andyps said:

Gary C said:

Have lotus lost their minds(soul)?

Probably not, but it has added in an element of business logic and recognised that to do what they really want they need to survive, and that means a few compromises along the way. Do we want a Lotus that makes a manual and automatic Exige, or one that makes neither because it is out of business? The answer for me is easy.

But why not a DSG/PDK style ?, or even a smg. A torque converter is not a good component on a lightweight lotus sports car full stop ! It blunts throttle response, saps power and dulls enjoyment.

[andyps]

Gary C said:

But why not a DSG/PDK style ?, or even a smg. A torque converter is not a good component on a lightweight lotus sports car full stop ! It blunts throttle response, saps power and dulls enjoyment.

I agree, except my understanding is that DSG can be very heavy. And if done well a torque converter can be good - Jaguar have made a very good job of getting the F-Type box to work really well, with very quick response. At least, that was my impression on a test drive.

[RemarkLima]

andyps said:

I agree, except my understanding is that DSG can be very heavy. And if done well a torque converter can be good - Jaguar have made a very good job of getting the F-Type box to work really well, with very quick response. At least, that was my impression on a test drive.

And BMW have done an excellent job with the ZF 8 speed torque converter slush box, to the point that many reviews imply it's better than a DSG box and significantly better in slow traffic etc... So do not right off a modern torque converter!

[leglessAlex]

Gary C said:

But why not a DSG/PDK style ?, or even a smg. A torque converter is not a good component on a lightweight lotus sports car full stop ! It blunts throttle response, saps power and dulls enjoyment.

Money. There can't be many single clutch autos or dual clutch autos out there that are cheap enough for lotus to buy and then to develop. I'm guessing a torque converter is all they could afford to do.

[Lowtimer]

And because it's already worked well for them in the Evora.

[kambites]

I think the reason they didn't go for a twin clutch automatic is simply that they didn't have access to one cheaply from Toyota and couldn't afford to buy one from someone else.

[CraigyMc]

leglessAlex said:

Gary C said:

But why not a DSG/PDK style ?, or even a smg. A torque converter is not a good component on a lightweight lotus sports car full stop ! It blunts throttle response, saps power and dulls enjoyment.

Money. There can't be many single clutch autos or dual clutch autos out there that are cheap enough for lotus to buy and then to develop. I'm guessing a torque converter is all they could afford to do.

It's because Toyota already uses this gearbox on the engine in other cars, eg the Camry.

Why spend all that money engineering a solution when it's been done already? There's no point, given the small number of cars. Nonstarter.

Lotus need to be bought. Ideally by Toyota.

[Claudia Skies]

CraigyMc said:

Lotus need to be bought. Ideally by Toyota.

Is it the 1980s?

Lotus and Toyota had grown very close during the 1980s with many Toyota parts being used. Then it all when down the pan when GM bought Lotus in 1986.

[Gary C]

CraigyMc said:

leglessAlex said:

Gary C said:

But why not a DSG/PDK style ?, or even a smg. A torque converter is not a good component on a lightweight lotus sports car full stop ! It blunts throttle response, saps power and dulls enjoyment.

Money. There can't be many single clutch autos or dual clutch autos out there that are cheap enough for lotus to buy and then to develop. I'm guessing a torque converter is all they could afford to do.

It's because Toyota already uses this gearbox on the engine in other cars, eg the Camry.

Why spend all that money engineering a solution when it's been done already? There's no point, given the small number of cars. Nonstarter.

Lotus need to be bought. Ideally by Toyota.

The cost issue is valid and expanding the market is a good target, but a Camry is no sports car ! There's the 'point'.

If you can get a seven speed DSG in a skoda Felicia !

Did toyota not develop the robotised manual they had about 10 years ago ? Given the rise of the DSG, I'm surprised toyota don't have something similar by now.

[shoestring7]

andyps said:

Gary C said:

But why not a DSG/PDK style ?, or even a smg. A torque converter is not a good component on a lightweight lotus sports car full stop ! It blunts throttle response, saps power and dulls enjoyment.

I agree, except my understanding is that DSG can be very heavy. And if done well a torque converter can be good - Jaguar have made a very good job of getting the F-Type box to work really well, with very quick response. At least, that was my impression on a test drive.

Riiiiiiiigggghhht. So Lotus chose to use a TQ auto box because while they could see the market loves two-pedal sports cars their dedication to lightness drove them to this option. Nothing to do with the fact that Toyota had one on the shelf going cheap, and one that didn't need expensive control integration with the engine....

If Lotus had their 'druthers the Exige would have a proper lightweight North/South multi-cylinder engine, sat low between the seats and an inline double clutch 'box. It certainly wouldn't have a repurposed front drive lump taken from one of the sttiest st boxes on the planet hanging out behind the rear axle-line.

SS7

[moribund]

Why would they? Lotus is aimed at drivers, if it drives right who cares where the components come from. Could you point me to the reviewer who is disappointed with the way an Exige drives?

[Lowtimer]

shoestring7 said:

Riiiiiiiigggghhht. So Lotus chose to use a TQ auto box because while they could see the market loves two-pedal sports cars their dedication to lightness drove them to this option. Nothing to do with the fact that Toyota had one on the shelf going cheap, and one that didn't need expensive control integration with the engine....

If Lotus had their 'druthers the Exige would have a proper lightweight North/South multi-cylinder engine, sat low between the seats and an inline double clutch 'box. It certainly wouldn't have a repurposed front drive lump taken from one of the sttiest st boxes on the planet hanging out behind the rear axle-line.

SS7

Sure, and then it would cost £15K more and everyone would complain about it costing more than a Cayman.

[hairyben]

andyps said:

Probably not, but it has added in an element of business logic and recognised that to do what they really want they need to survive, and that means a few compromises along the way. Do we want a Lotus that makes a manual and automatic Exige, or one that makes neither because it is out of business? The answer for me is easy.

^This.

cheap, easy, off-the shelf component to offer something in addition to the proper version and increase sales, rather than gambling it all on a bespoke la-de-da dual clutch whatever they can't afford.

it's not like they've gone into building 3 ton 700hp school run panzerwagons

[Gary C]

hairyben said:

andyps said:

Probably not, but it has added in an element of business logic and recognised that to do what they really want they need to survive, and that means a few compromises along the way. Do we want a Lotus that makes a manual and automatic Exige, or one that makes neither because it is out of business? The answer for me is easy.

^This.

cheap, easy, off-the shelf component to offer something in addition to the proper version and increase sales, rather than gambling it all on a bespoke la-de-da dual clutch whatever they can't afford.

it's not like they've gone into building 3 ton 700hp school run panzerwagons

True, lotus have a long tradition of using major mechanical components from other manufactures, then tweaking them to produce a more focused device that matches their car and why not.

But an auto with a torque converter ? Is that really the right direction or just a stop gap.

[Gary C]

andyps said:

Gary C said:

But why not a DSG/PDK style ?, or even a smg. A torque converter is not a good component on a lightweight lotus sports car full stop ! It blunts throttle response, saps power and dulls enjoyment.

I agree, except my understanding is that DSG can be very heavy. And if done well a torque converter can be good - Jaguar have made a very good job of getting the F-Type box to work really well, with very quick response. At least, that was my impression on a test drive.

Also the given weight VW 02e DSG is 94kgs and the asin Warner u660e is 95kgs.

[Tuna]

kambites said:

Human latency perception (not the same thing as reaction times) is in double figures milliseconds; quite low double figures for some people. You can very easily feel a quarter second delay on a control.

And yet, they're quoting a tenth faster to 62 and the same time round the track. You can feel the delay, the same way you can feel the delay it takes to pull a gear lever across a gate. Frankly, why anyone who is against auto boxes is bothering to reply to this thread is beyond me. Go buy the manual.

[DonkeyApple]

Gary C said:

CraigyMc said:

Gary C said:

kambites said:

Hmm, not convinced by a slush-box in an Exige but we shall see.

Is it a slush box though ?

A torque converter would be horrendous on an exige but I can't believe they would use one.

It is. It's an Aisin Warner U660E.

Yuk yuk yuk !

A DSG or a real sequential, then maybe. But a slush box! No fkiNGWAY !

Have lotus lost their minds(soul)?

I don't think a sequential would have increased sales. They need to sell to the larger market segment which is people who just want a car for the road and normal driving as that is 99.99% of the global car buying market.

A sequential box wouldn't tap that at all. It would merely be a niche option within their existing niche market so arguably wouldn't bring any relevant sales in at all.

At least by going this route they can suddenly tap into the various essential global markets such as the Far East where you must have an auto option.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if this is the biggest seller out of their new showrooms.

Lotus make road cars to need to start having products that appeal to the mainstream because they need that volume.

This simple addition has amazing potential for them and is a good thing.

[kambites]

Tuna said:

kambites said:

Human latency perception (not the same thing as reaction times) is in double figures milliseconds; quite low double figures for some people. You can very easily feel a quarter second delay on a control.

And yet, they're quoting a tenth faster to 62 and the same time round the track. You can feel the delay, the same way you can feel the delay it takes to pull a gear lever across a gate. Frankly, why anyone who is against auto boxes is bothering to reply to this thread is beyond me. Go buy the manual.

The question is just whether it's acceptable to a flappy-paddle buyer to have an appreciable delay between input and gear change; other cars have been thoroughly slated for it in the past. It's different when you're changing gear in a manual because the human action that you expect to engage the drivetrain (ie lifting the clutch) acts instantaneously.

Of course the answer is that some will be happy with it and some wont, but the big question for Lotus is "how many".