RE: Shed Of The Week: Citroen Saxo VTS
Discussion
Ah - one of the last of the nineties generation of old school supermini hot hatches. Brings back fond memories of my mispent youth, tearing around South West Wales in my Corsa GSi (like), trance pumping out of my trusty sub and amp and an ironing board spoiler on the bootlid.
What a tit I was.
I remember when they were first released - 1997 if I recall - and at the time 120bhp was considered quite a lot of power for the genre.
I remember having a go in a mates one and even as a young oik with limited driving experience I was shocked by how tiny the pedals were and how close together they were in the footwell.
As said in the article, this generation of hatches were a great mix of low weight and big fun, for modest bhp, until you hit a lamppost or ended up in a hedge and discovered they had all the structural rigidity of a wet paper bag.
I always felt the mk1 Saxo was a lot better looking than the mk2.
What a tit I was.
I remember when they were first released - 1997 if I recall - and at the time 120bhp was considered quite a lot of power for the genre.
I remember having a go in a mates one and even as a young oik with limited driving experience I was shocked by how tiny the pedals were and how close together they were in the footwell.
As said in the article, this generation of hatches were a great mix of low weight and big fun, for modest bhp, until you hit a lamppost or ended up in a hedge and discovered they had all the structural rigidity of a wet paper bag.
I always felt the mk1 Saxo was a lot better looking than the mk2.
paulmaurice99 said:
The thing that interested me in the comments is the whole 'teenage/chav' image comments: whilst not applicable when they first came out, sadly many of the later owners ARE to blame for that rep, BUT mention a 205 GTI on PH and it's nothing but praise - and there were plenty of tw*ts driving those if I recall. And in my experience (limited to only 1 example of each) the Saxo was far and away the better, more fun, car. There, that'll get a response!
Very valid observation - selective memory and rose tinted specs seem to get applied to some cars but not to others.Many of the classic hot hatches today were the chavs weapon of choice in the nineties and early noughties.
You just have to love those small ~120hp; NA; sub 1000kg hatches!
Owning a Lupo GTI I I know how much fun such hot superminis are in day to day traffic.
The great thing with Lupo GTI compared to Saxos or 106 is, that you get them with heated leather seats, climate control, glas sunroof and generally a very quality interior. But this reflects in the high prices they command.
If one doesnt't want/can't stretch to 5k £ for a good Lupo GTI this is a very, very nice car!!!
ETA:
Just discovered the shed has a glas sunroof too! WIN!!
IMO it's incredible how much one of those contributes to a nice cabin feel. Open or closed.
Owning a Lupo GTI I I know how much fun such hot superminis are in day to day traffic.
The great thing with Lupo GTI compared to Saxos or 106 is, that you get them with heated leather seats, climate control, glas sunroof and generally a very quality interior. But this reflects in the high prices they command.
If one doesnt't want/can't stretch to 5k £ for a good Lupo GTI this is a very, very nice car!!!
ETA:
Just discovered the shed has a glas sunroof too! WIN!!
IMO it's incredible how much one of those contributes to a nice cabin feel. Open or closed.
Edited by VF7 on Friday 30th January 11:11
paulmaurice99 said:
Mine (a relatively humble VTR - though the difference between the VTR and the VTS was very similar to the difference between 8v and 16v Golf, ie. not very much unless you had the space to push past 5k rpm in every gear)
Not quite - the softer ARB's spoilt the snappyness of the handling, and the VTR's 8v engine was choked of its buzzyness by a ridiculously long set of gear ratios in the VTR box.dbdb said:
Not my kind of car at all, but then I'm not a teenager.
Is there some kind of 'new look' to the opening page of SOTW? - There was when I clicked on the article - a sort of sub-Facebook generic font clone-look thing. It wasn't pretty.
It reverted to the normal type when I made a comment though.
Agreed.Is there some kind of 'new look' to the opening page of SOTW? - There was when I clicked on the article - a sort of sub-Facebook generic font clone-look thing. It wasn't pretty.
It reverted to the normal type when I made a comment though.
Too much white, like a govt. form or exam paper.
I got here via 'forums' on the black drop down curtain with the Golfs on.
Ah, my daily driver!:
Well, my wife's actually. It's a 1999 VTR she bought in January 2004, and the reason we met - I was selling a Max Power Saxo Haynes Manual to her and met her in a Harvester car park to collect the fiver for the book. Still haven't got the fiver......
It's been lowered, and un-lowered, and all sorts. I spent most of last year trying to get it into an 'OE plus' kinda phase, and largely it's worked. It has a Magnex full exhaust system, but with an OE VTS tailpipe fitted. It's also got a 106 GTi full leather (as opposed to part-leather - really rare, I was lucky to find it) interior and some generic sealed induction kit, which looks less chavvy than it sounds. Oh, and a VTS engine and gearbox....forgot that one! I bought a '98 VTS a few years back, but it turned out to be totally rotten (the biggest killer of the Saxo is rust) so I fitted the running gear to the VTR, and boom!
Quite a few inaccuracies in the article (140bhp from a decat, manifold and induction kit?!?), but it's a good read. Ultimately, having had the VTR and the VTS engines in the same cars, I can report there are MASSIVE differences in the way they go. Up until around 2500rpm, they're probably even, but the VTS takes off at around 3500rpm and keeps it on the boil until 6500rpm. The gearing is much shorter, too, and the performance difference is quite a wide one (despite what VTR owners will try and tell you).
They are very rattly, and ours in particular eats bushes, ball joints, gaiters....all that kinda of thing. Very easy to work on though, and a lot of fun.
In terms of future classic/high values, I'm not so sure. A mk1 VTS pre-facelift, totally original, Possy blue and everything....maybe that'll be a £3000-£4000 car in 10 or 20 years, but the Saxo will always be overshadowed by the 106 GTi and Rallyes, so it'll never get a chance to shine. The Peugeots are nicer cars too, overall. The Saxo was always the slightly cheaper option, so in terms of interior quality, the Saxo is uber s
te, whereas the 106 is just ste. The 106 GTi always looks good, whereas the only Saxos that equal it for me are those really early cars.
Ours is still in daily service though. 35mpg, and it really is surprisingly quick at getting around on the road. Already had to rebuild the back end due to rust once though, so I think we're better off sealing it in an air-tight dry bag sometime soon!
Well, my wife's actually. It's a 1999 VTR she bought in January 2004, and the reason we met - I was selling a Max Power Saxo Haynes Manual to her and met her in a Harvester car park to collect the fiver for the book. Still haven't got the fiver......
It's been lowered, and un-lowered, and all sorts. I spent most of last year trying to get it into an 'OE plus' kinda phase, and largely it's worked. It has a Magnex full exhaust system, but with an OE VTS tailpipe fitted. It's also got a 106 GTi full leather (as opposed to part-leather - really rare, I was lucky to find it) interior and some generic sealed induction kit, which looks less chavvy than it sounds. Oh, and a VTS engine and gearbox....forgot that one! I bought a '98 VTS a few years back, but it turned out to be totally rotten (the biggest killer of the Saxo is rust) so I fitted the running gear to the VTR, and boom!
Quite a few inaccuracies in the article (140bhp from a decat, manifold and induction kit?!?), but it's a good read. Ultimately, having had the VTR and the VTS engines in the same cars, I can report there are MASSIVE differences in the way they go. Up until around 2500rpm, they're probably even, but the VTS takes off at around 3500rpm and keeps it on the boil until 6500rpm. The gearing is much shorter, too, and the performance difference is quite a wide one (despite what VTR owners will try and tell you).
They are very rattly, and ours in particular eats bushes, ball joints, gaiters....all that kinda of thing. Very easy to work on though, and a lot of fun.
In terms of future classic/high values, I'm not so sure. A mk1 VTS pre-facelift, totally original, Possy blue and everything....maybe that'll be a £3000-£4000 car in 10 or 20 years, but the Saxo will always be overshadowed by the 106 GTi and Rallyes, so it'll never get a chance to shine. The Peugeots are nicer cars too, overall. The Saxo was always the slightly cheaper option, so in terms of interior quality, the Saxo is uber s
te, whereas the 106 is just ste. The 106 GTi always looks good, whereas the only Saxos that equal it for me are those really early cars.Ours is still in daily service though. 35mpg, and it really is surprisingly quick at getting around on the road. Already had to rebuild the back end due to rust once though, so I think we're better off sealing it in an air-tight dry bag sometime soon!
Kitchski said:
Quite a few inaccuracies in the article (140bhp from a decat, manifold and induction kit?!?), but it's a good read.
I wouldn't say it is too inaccurate. My 106 Gti made 133bhp at the fly with decat, manifold and an induction kit, that was on the same day other GTIs made 115bhp to 130bhp with varying breathing mods. I then changed the exhuast and induction which made it a lot more responsive and I think with another dyno run it would have made closer to 140bhp, it was certainly bloody quick! 
I had a Saxo Vtr beforehand as well, either the VTS or GTI are both brilliant cars. I challenge anyone to have a good drive in one and not be smiling!
VF7 said:
You just have to love those small ~120hp; NA; sub 1000kg hatches!
Owning a Lupo GTI I I know how much fun such hot superminis are in day to day traffic.
The great thing with Lupo GTI compared to Saxos or 106 is, that you get them with heated leather seats, climate control, glas sunroof and generally a very quality interior. But this reflects in the high prices they command.
If one doesnt't want/can't stretch to 5k £ for a good Lupo GTI this is a very, very nice car!!!
ETA:
Just discovered the shed has a glas sunroof too! WIN!!
IMO it's incredible how much one of those contributes to a nice cabin feel. Open or closed.
The Lupo is a fabulous little thing, and agree about the options. The VTS is a step above when it comes to driving though, and they punched above their weight in a straightline too.Owning a Lupo GTI I I know how much fun such hot superminis are in day to day traffic.
The great thing with Lupo GTI compared to Saxos or 106 is, that you get them with heated leather seats, climate control, glas sunroof and generally a very quality interior. But this reflects in the high prices they command.
If one doesnt't want/can't stretch to 5k £ for a good Lupo GTI this is a very, very nice car!!!
ETA:
Just discovered the shed has a glas sunroof too! WIN!!
IMO it's incredible how much one of those contributes to a nice cabin feel. Open or closed.
Edited by VF7 on Friday 30th January 11:11
I really miss the glory days of the hot hatch. Clios, Saxos and Pugs were incredibly desirable to me and i still lust after one despite moving on up the food chain!
I agree that the 'chav' thing will fade away as the nostalgia feel picks up; a standard car will achieve major car nerd status in 10 years.
Just as there has been an article coveting the the 309 Goodwood in the past, people will eventually get similarly excited when someone finds the last Xsara VTS for sale too!
if Chavs have still got them they are the Chavs that time forgot ! early 2000's Chavs, they have moved on to MK4 Golfs and E46's etc.
Remember one stuck to the bumper of my manual 850 T5, got to a dual carriageway and decided to show him who was boss, er, I got a shock, I pulled away but I expected to utterly destroy it, didnt.
Remember one stuck to the bumper of my manual 850 T5, got to a dual carriageway and decided to show him who was boss, er, I got a shock, I pulled away but I expected to utterly destroy it, didnt.
carinaman said:
dbdb said:
Not my kind of car at all, but then I'm not a teenager.
Is there some kind of 'new look' to the opening page of SOTW? - There was when I clicked on the article - a sort of sub-Facebook generic font clone-look thing. It wasn't pretty.
It reverted to the normal type when I made a comment though.
Agreed.Is there some kind of 'new look' to the opening page of SOTW? - There was when I clicked on the article - a sort of sub-Facebook generic font clone-look thing. It wasn't pretty.
It reverted to the normal type when I made a comment though.
Too much white, like a govt. form or exam paper.
I got here via 'forums' on the black drop down curtain with the Golfs on.
And while I'm moaning, why does PH use a photo of a Golf of all cars for its banner? Can't they put a photo of something a car enthusiast might want? A TVR perhaps?
I dont think id ever own a Saxo, however good they are. Image is tarnished by far too many of them with the rear axle wound down 2-3 clicks, scraping the floor with a massive bean can for exhaust, being driven everywhere in 2nd gear.
106 GTI's though seem to have escaped nearly unscathed to that view by most people though. I would have a GTI if my feet fitted on the pedals with trying to press multiple pedals at the same time. I rather stump up the extra cash though for a xara or GTI6. Xara VTS's cant be going for that much more surely.
106 GTI's though seem to have escaped nearly unscathed to that view by most people though. I would have a GTI if my feet fitted on the pedals with trying to press multiple pedals at the same time. I rather stump up the extra cash though for a xara or GTI6. Xara VTS's cant be going for that much more surely.
Edited by dukebox9reg on Friday 30th January 12:07
I pondered one of these or a 106 GTI when I came to replace my MX5 as my daily. Finally settled on a low mileage Fiesta Zetec S, which i'm really pleased with. I'm pretty sure it's not as much fun as a VTS, and certainly slower, but it handles nicely and is likely better screwed together.
I think Citroen sold the VTR with free insurance when I was around 17, hence the popularity. I was chugging around in a brown Nova Saloon, and not in the slightest bit jealous at the time.
I think Citroen sold the VTR with free insurance when I was around 17, hence the popularity. I was chugging around in a brown Nova Saloon, and not in the slightest bit jealous at the time.
Krikkit said:
paulmaurice99 said:
Mine (a relatively humble VTR - though the difference between the VTR and the VTS was very similar to the difference between 8v and 16v Golf, ie. not very much unless you had the space to push past 5k rpm in every gear)
Not quite - the softer ARB's spoilt the snappyness of the handling, and the VTR's 8v engine was choked of its buzzyness by a ridiculously long set of gear ratios in the VTR box.And I'd forgotten the longer ratios - on the flipside that made it a really long-legged (relatively) motorway car, which is not something you'd expect of a car like that. That's something I do remember what with it being my only car. The E36 328 auto that replaced it seemed to have intergalactic gearing after that...
I wouldnt agree with all the faults listed in the article..
I've had my VTS nearly 3 years and before that I had a VTR, a westcoast (1.4) and an S1 1.1 106.
I rarely ever see a VTS on the road anymore, as the sheds get scrapped or written off, I feel like it's just leaving real enthusiasts.
I wouldnt say that shed of the week was a particularly great buy or a good standard example!
There's still a few good examples out there though for sure
mine -
OH's -
Both daily drivers and used on track we both have second cars but can't part with these little tins lol
I've had my VTS nearly 3 years and before that I had a VTR, a westcoast (1.4) and an S1 1.1 106.
I rarely ever see a VTS on the road anymore, as the sheds get scrapped or written off, I feel like it's just leaving real enthusiasts.
I wouldnt say that shed of the week was a particularly great buy or a good standard example!
There's still a few good examples out there though for sure
mine -
OH's -
Both daily drivers and used on track
we both have second cars but can't part with these little tins lolGassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff