What an utter waste.
Discussion
xxChrisxx said:
Every time I finish reading one of your posts, I think 'this person is slightly dim'. Then I see your name. You come across as having a simplistic world view. It's the bolded bit that makes what you said very foolish.
It's about risk and liability. They could ship them off to dealers, sell them, not tell the customers, and everything be totally fine. Risk is the probability of something occurring multiplied by the severity of the outcome. Though the probability of anything going wrong is small the consequence could potentially be catastrophic, would result in huge payouts and damage to reputation.
Considering that people go apes
t if they find out that the car has had a bit of remedial paintwork at the factory. How do you think people will react if they find out that it's been sat out at sea for weeks, in a boat crash.
WUT?It's about risk and liability. They could ship them off to dealers, sell them, not tell the customers, and everything be totally fine. Risk is the probability of something occurring multiplied by the severity of the outcome. Though the probability of anything going wrong is small the consequence could potentially be catastrophic, would result in huge payouts and damage to reputation.
Considering that people go apes
t if they find out that the car has had a bit of remedial paintwork at the factory. How do you think people will react if they find out that it's been sat out at sea for weeks, in a boat crash.Edited by xxChrisxx on Saturday 31st January 00:30
Edited by xxChrisxx on Saturday 31st January 00:31
Risk of what going wrong exactly? The car has just been sat at sea! How long do you think a car takes to get from Japan to Southampton?
Can someone please detail how these specific vehicles will have a higher risk after sitting at sea for 4 weeks vs a vehicle that has been sitting at sea for 4 weeks on the way to Japan.
Another thing, aren't these Land Rovers designed to sit on inclines, they are 4wd models after all
MarshPhantom said:
It probably isn't worth stripping them for bits given labour costs and the fact the value of the spares is far lower to the manufacturer than it would be to the customer. They also don't want scrap yards selling brand new spare parts and undercutting their own dealers.
The manufacturers might want the insurance to pay out market value then crush the cars, but why would any insurance co be want to pay out on the cars and then crush a load of valuable cars that they own? Seperatley if I had a RR on order and I got a call from the dealership to say that they'd has someone drop out so mine would be ready early if I accepted a slightly different spec I would tell them to go whistle.
Is it not purely and simply down to insurance.
I used to have to go to a catalouge warehouse doing repairs and maintenance on the pipework/heating system,there were a lot of people milling about one day and every security guard they had was on duty.
The building was an old cotton mill and part of the roof had come in and some stock had been damaged,some of the workers were begging the company to sell them the three piece suites/tables/chairs etc that were going through the bailing machine.
They just could not get their heads around the fact that the stuff was the subject of an insurance claim and coud not be sold.
Dont get me wrong,I agree that it is a waste crushing a brand new car because of some minor damage but in this PC world we live in those are the rules.
I used to have to go to a catalouge warehouse doing repairs and maintenance on the pipework/heating system,there were a lot of people milling about one day and every security guard they had was on duty.
The building was an old cotton mill and part of the roof had come in and some stock had been damaged,some of the workers were begging the company to sell them the three piece suites/tables/chairs etc that were going through the bailing machine.
They just could not get their heads around the fact that the stuff was the subject of an insurance claim and coud not be sold.
Dont get me wrong,I agree that it is a waste crushing a brand new car because of some minor damage but in this PC world we live in those are the rules.
They will probably be punted off to salvage yards by insurance as unrecorded.
Last year (or the year before) a salvage company had half a dozen or so Golf GTD's still in pre-delivery spec (no centre caps, blue foamy bits stuck on, no registration etc) with varying degrees of damage. Some just had panel damage, some had sill/front suspension damage (im assuming from transit damage somewhere along the way), and were being sold at around 5-6k off RRP.
There are alot more of these but if some just need bolt on panels they will be done and pushed into the destination country's generic stock. Stuff with more expensive damage will be salvaged.
Last year (or the year before) a salvage company had half a dozen or so Golf GTD's still in pre-delivery spec (no centre caps, blue foamy bits stuck on, no registration etc) with varying degrees of damage. Some just had panel damage, some had sill/front suspension damage (im assuming from transit damage somewhere along the way), and were being sold at around 5-6k off RRP.
There are alot more of these but if some just need bolt on panels they will be done and pushed into the destination country's generic stock. Stuff with more expensive damage will be salvaged.
I'm genuinely curious about what problems could occur to these cars after being on that boat. Are cars really built so terribly that they can't handle sitting tilted for a few weeks? As for salty air do the cars not sit dockside for a month or two until the batch is complete and ready for shipping?
I seem to remember some years ago, 1000's of over produced new cars stacked up in muddy fields, some up to their axles in water. Don't remember any of those being scrapped. If these cars were only suspended at an angle for a while, and not submerged in salty water, then there will be nothing rong with them.
I think there are two separate issues here.
Firstly, the car manufacturer won't want to take any risk at all with regard to warranty claims and loss of reputation. If, in the hugely unlikely event of anything happening to one of these cars that wouldn't have happened anyway, Rolls Royce or whatever don't want to be tarred with the reputation of having hundreds of cars going wrong in the course of a year or two. Bad steel over a couple of years killed Lancia in the UK, for instance. So there is no way that they are selling these cars to the public.
That then means - what have they agreed with their insurers? Maybe the insurance has a clause that says that anytime anything like this happens, the cars must be crushed. It's probably designed to take effect in the event that the cars are submerged but clearly, the manufacturer now gets to sell a ship load of cars again and bank the profit, or at least avoid oversupply in the market and competition from something that, almost literally, fell off the back of a lorry. That could drive down prices in the short term and set expectations around discounts for much longer.
Even if it's not a requirement that the cars must be crushed, the insurer may not be willing to take the risk on selling something that the manufacturer is entitled to wash its hands of.
So while it is wasteful, there's a lot more to it than simply not wanting to take on the risk of fixing one car in the event that something did happen.
Firstly, the car manufacturer won't want to take any risk at all with regard to warranty claims and loss of reputation. If, in the hugely unlikely event of anything happening to one of these cars that wouldn't have happened anyway, Rolls Royce or whatever don't want to be tarred with the reputation of having hundreds of cars going wrong in the course of a year or two. Bad steel over a couple of years killed Lancia in the UK, for instance. So there is no way that they are selling these cars to the public.
That then means - what have they agreed with their insurers? Maybe the insurance has a clause that says that anytime anything like this happens, the cars must be crushed. It's probably designed to take effect in the event that the cars are submerged but clearly, the manufacturer now gets to sell a ship load of cars again and bank the profit, or at least avoid oversupply in the market and competition from something that, almost literally, fell off the back of a lorry. That could drive down prices in the short term and set expectations around discounts for much longer.
Even if it's not a requirement that the cars must be crushed, the insurer may not be willing to take the risk on selling something that the manufacturer is entitled to wash its hands of.
So while it is wasteful, there's a lot more to it than simply not wanting to take on the risk of fixing one car in the event that something did happen.
Lugy said:
I'm genuinely curious about what problems could occur to these cars after being on that boat. Are cars really built so terribly that they can't handle sitting tilted for a few weeks? As for salty air do the cars not sit dockside for a month or two until the batch is complete and ready for shipping?
They come on a train that goes straight into the docks at Southampton. I know this as my old halls of residence at Southampton Uni was right next to the crossing where it had to stop at 5am, waiting for the barriers to lift before it could cross the public road. Sometimes this train would be sat for 20 minutes waiting to cross, with the alarm noise blaring out at 5am waking up the students. The students reltalated by launching everything they could find out of their windows at the train and the cars loaded up behind it, the cars must have ended up in a right mess. This led to security being stood by the crossing to make sure nothing happened. Also some other Uni friends works on the docks transferring the cars on to the ships...wacky races he called i:-)
V8RX7 said:
But surely once the Boat's insurers have paid out - they will then own them and they will want to get as much of their money back as possible by putting them through a salvage auction.
They'll have a very good case for not paying out when the car is driven off the boat showing no damage at all .
They will be "scrapped" but not waisted, they will be parted out and make somone a huge profit, who ever it is will no doubt give a large drink to somone somewhere for getting the chance.
There is no way you can sell these on, no-one knows what the condition rreally were in the ship and certainly no manufacturers is going to take a chance on selling them om, lets face it to the manufacturers these are just 0.01 percent (or less) of thier stcok and as such meaninless in a monitary way and they are manufacturers in a monitary way IE it's all the care about, how many times have peeps on here dropped a 2P, scanned the imediate area without finding it and not botherd to look further for it cos "it aint worth the hassle", well that's how the manufacturers will be looking at these vehicals, a 2P that's rolled under the sofa or in this case rolled into a puddle.
There is no way you can sell these on, no-one knows what the condition rreally were in the ship and certainly no manufacturers is going to take a chance on selling them om, lets face it to the manufacturers these are just 0.01 percent (or less) of thier stcok and as such meaninless in a monitary way and they are manufacturers in a monitary way IE it's all the care about, how many times have peeps on here dropped a 2P, scanned the imediate area without finding it and not botherd to look further for it cos "it aint worth the hassle", well that's how the manufacturers will be looking at these vehicals, a 2P that's rolled under the sofa or in this case rolled into a puddle.
This is a slightly clearer article about the BMWs damaged on a cargo ship.
"BMW says customers concerned about ending up with a damaged car can rest assured that any and all damage will fully disclosed before being sold to dealers. Following its long-standing policy, the damaged vehicles will be handled appropriately based on the degree of damage incurred. For instance, any vehicle whose repair costs approach or exceed its inventory value will be crushed in whole at the port.
Vehicles with damage greater than three percent of their value will be repaired and used as employee vehicles for a period of time before being sold at dealer auctions with full disclosure of the damage and repairs. After being sold at auction, the cars will carry the balance of the original factory warranty.
Cars with less than three percent damage will be repaired, after which the dealer, or the customer in the case of a special order vehicle, will be notified of the damage and repair and then given the option of accepting or refusing the car. Any repaired car that is rejected by either a dealer or a customer will be sent to a dealer auction and the vehicle will be replaced with an identical one at the earliest possible time. All repaired vehicles will carry the full factory warranty."
These were cars that really did get knocked together on a ship rather than just sitting at an angle for a few days. So it's not an automatic policy that cars are destroyed just because there has been an accident with the cargo ship they've been on board.
http://www.mwerks.com/artman/publish/bmw_news/arti...
"BMW says customers concerned about ending up with a damaged car can rest assured that any and all damage will fully disclosed before being sold to dealers. Following its long-standing policy, the damaged vehicles will be handled appropriately based on the degree of damage incurred. For instance, any vehicle whose repair costs approach or exceed its inventory value will be crushed in whole at the port.
Vehicles with damage greater than three percent of their value will be repaired and used as employee vehicles for a period of time before being sold at dealer auctions with full disclosure of the damage and repairs. After being sold at auction, the cars will carry the balance of the original factory warranty.
Cars with less than three percent damage will be repaired, after which the dealer, or the customer in the case of a special order vehicle, will be notified of the damage and repair and then given the option of accepting or refusing the car. Any repaired car that is rejected by either a dealer or a customer will be sent to a dealer auction and the vehicle will be replaced with an identical one at the earliest possible time. All repaired vehicles will carry the full factory warranty."
These were cars that really did get knocked together on a ship rather than just sitting at an angle for a few days. So it's not an automatic policy that cars are destroyed just because there has been an accident with the cargo ship they've been on board.
http://www.mwerks.com/artman/publish/bmw_news/arti...
Its like I posted on another thread about this, there are several hundred Alfa Romeo 156s and 147s around on the UKs roads that were on a ship to Australia which caught fire. All the severely damaged ones were crushed while the repairable ones were kept till the 159 and 147 facelift came out then sold through auctions where they were picked up by independent Alfa specialists and car supermarkets. The same happened with a Malaysian shipment a couple of years later. Hopefully the same happens in this case as it would be a waste to crush them, but Mazda crushed loads of undamaged cars in another case so we'll have to see.
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