RE: Honda Civic Type R - more details
Discussion
knebworth01 said:
Sub £30k would be the right price for this car, if you're a Honda fan (which I am), it doesnt really have much competition:
• VAG Products - Yawwwwwnn. Pass me another body shell for that floorpan please Fritz..
• Renault - Good dynamics, rubbish quality.
• BMW M135i - Loads of power in a squishy chassis and looks like a converse boot.
• A Class AMG - Lovely motor, but in a different price bracket.
• Focus ST - Much the same as the Renault, only for people that wont buy a French motor.
If you want one of these nothing else will do.
Astra VXR• VAG Products - Yawwwwwnn. Pass me another body shell for that floorpan please Fritz..
• Renault - Good dynamics, rubbish quality.
• BMW M135i - Loads of power in a squishy chassis and looks like a converse boot.
• A Class AMG - Lovely motor, but in a different price bracket.
• Focus ST - Much the same as the Renault, only for people that wont buy a French motor.
If you want one of these nothing else will do.
Have to agree with some other posters, a 7k rpm limit is pretty disappointing for a Type R. It needs another 1000rpm and that power delivery needs to be top end heavy and not the usual diesel-alike delivery of almost every other 2 litre turborcharged car available today, otherwise it's not a Type R as far as I'm concerned.
It looks like it could be rather "Halfords tacky" from some of the styling details revealed.
Will certainly appeal to the target market that would perhaps buy a Corsa VXR, but I doubt they would be in the market for what sounds like a £30k motor.
To be honest, it looks like a car that would be rather embarrassing to be seen in. Some of the earlier Type R Civics put the emphasis on the engineering rather than being overtly ostentatious, and better for it. IMHO obviously.
Oh, and isn't top speed irrelevant really, outside of Top Trumps anyway?
Will certainly appeal to the target market that would perhaps buy a Corsa VXR, but I doubt they would be in the market for what sounds like a £30k motor.
To be honest, it looks like a car that would be rather embarrassing to be seen in. Some of the earlier Type R Civics put the emphasis on the engineering rather than being overtly ostentatious, and better for it. IMHO obviously.
Oh, and isn't top speed irrelevant really, outside of Top Trumps anyway?
knebworth01 said:
Sub £30k would be the right price for this car, if you're a Honda fan (which I am), it doesnt really have much competition:
• VAG Products - Yawwwwwnn. Pass me another body shell for that floorpan please Fritz..
• Renault - Good dynamics, rubbish quality.
• BMW M135i - Loads of power in a squishy chassis and looks like a converse boot.
• A Class AMG - Lovely motor, but in a different price bracket.
• Focus ST - Much the same as the Renault, only for people that wont buy a French motor.
If you want one of these nothing else will do.
Unless the quality is improved dramatically would say the interior will be no better than a Focus I ran a 2010 Civic and the interior was all cheap plastic to be honest albeit it with fancy dials. • VAG Products - Yawwwwwnn. Pass me another body shell for that floorpan please Fritz..
• Renault - Good dynamics, rubbish quality.
• BMW M135i - Loads of power in a squishy chassis and looks like a converse boot.
• A Class AMG - Lovely motor, but in a different price bracket.
• Focus ST - Much the same as the Renault, only for people that wont buy a French motor.
If you want one of these nothing else will do.
135i has a fantastic chassis and facelift has solved the looks for me and being a 6 pot and rwd seems a lot more special than the civic.
VAG Golf R meant to be great everyone likes them and gets great reviews certainly not a boring car think its a silly statement.
Meganne yes its old now but due for replacement new French interiors are coming on and no doubt performance wise the new Meganne will demolish this anyway as to be honest they have been the best at fwd hatches for a decade now.
Focus ST don't even see as a rival can get them for £20k with discount guess this will be near enough £30k so 50% more and at that money don't see why anyone would chose one over a Golf R/135i as seems like get more car for your money.
Really wanted to like this car owned a Civic myself but just doesn't do it for me as seems the current crop are ahead of it for me on paper and can't see them selling many at all if it ends up near £30k with the competition.
The fact they have only sold 100 as pre-orders helps to prove that point not sure why they are boasting about that its hardly an achievement I bet Ford have probably sold 100 pre-ordered mustangs on PH alone...
gordlaing said:
How is a fwd civic more hardcore than a rwd straight 6 exactly? and why does it have to look like a chavs wet dream?
I am only 22 and drive a bright orange mini and even I think it looks a bit silly... Design appeals to a 17yr old almost and yet nobody who is 17 will be able to afford to buy/insure one!
greggy50 said:
Don't get boast about the top speed I am sure FWD cars like the Leon 280 and the Astra VXR would do 160+ if it was for the limiters
The megane trophy 275 does 158mph unlimited, the civics 167mph with high downforce is still pretty Impressive. It's shows how good it's aero is and or how much power it's got. Going from 158 to 167 isn't very easy for something that has been touted as having between 280-300bhp. I cannot see any cars or if there is there's gery few sub 300bhp cars that can do over 165mphgordlaing said:
Frimley111R said:
gordlaing said:
Or..... the BMW M135i?
This is much more hardcore and doesn't look like any other diesel variant.I would expect the Civic to be shed loads more fun than the M135i, be a fair bit more focused and probably over a lap be as quick if not quicker
Being Rwd has nothing to do with being 'hardcore' and why would the amount of cylinders? A 106 rallye is far more 'hardcore' than any of them as a 1.6 8v Fwd car
I also don;t see how it looks 'chavvy' at all. Go to you local McDonalds car park on a Friday night and the order of the day is Audi A3s, Golfs and Polos atm, the modern chav has gone german
greggy50 said:
Really wanted to like this car owned a Civic myself but just doesn't do it for me as seems the current crop are ahead of it for me on paper and can't see them selling many at all if it ends up near £30k with the competition.
The fact they have only sold 100 as pre-orders helps to prove that point not sure why they are boasting about that its hardly an achievement I bet Ford have probably sold 100 pre-ordered mustangs on PH alone...
What on paper don't you like... All we know is that it is FWD, 2.0 turbo, 19" alloys, 350mm brembo brakes, 167mph top speed. The fact they have only sold 100 as pre-orders helps to prove that point not sure why they are boasting about that its hardly an achievement I bet Ford have probably sold 100 pre-ordered mustangs on PH alone...
100 orders isn't mich but given that no one seen the full car and opt the specs it's not bad either.
Guvernator said:
Have to agree with some other posters, a 7k rpm limit is pretty disappointing for a Type R. It needs another 1000rpm and that power delivery needs to be top end heavy and not the usual diesel-alike delivery of almost every other 2 litre turborcharged car available today, otherwise it's not a Type R as far as I'm concerned.
Ferrari, M3, M5, M6, Porsche, renault sport have all gone turbo instead of high revving NA. Yet there still selling in large numbers. Honda have been making turbo cars for decades, there F1 engine is a 1.6 turbo, and it would be stupid not to use that investment in tech to put on there road cars.sinbad666 said:
The megane trophy 275 does 158mph unlimited, the civics 167mph with high downforce is still pretty Impressive. It's shows how good it's aero is and or how much power it's got. Going from 158 to 167 isn't very easy for something that has been touted as having between 280-300bhp. I cannot see any cars or if there is there's gery few sub 300bhp cars that can do over 165mph
I think this civic will end up with about 320hp to be honest... If does 167 on 280hp fair play but can't see it being the case I suspect when Renault set the ring record in the 275 they had to add a bit more power in to beat it on the ring which was the whole point of the car.
The Golf R is quoted as being able to do 168mph without the limiter with 296hp according to the VW development chief so suspect the leon would not be far behind that. The old focus RS would do 163mph with 300hp and that was quite a big heavy car so new one will probably be touching the 170mph mark as well.
Too big, heavy, and old fashioned.
I've owned these "mid-sized" fast hatchbacks for 10 years now - the r26 and the breadvan type r were fantastic, because they were neutral, unassuming fun cars. But now there's nothing on the market that doesn't shout "w
ker". It's not the driver I'm talking about, it's the cars... They look like the car equivalent of a prick.
Look how fast I am, look at my 19" alloy wheels (on a fking hatch?!), look at my 2, 4, 6 exhausts with no noise coming out of them... It's boring. And then there's the real stter: they're not any fun. Mazda 3 MPS, original golf r, and an astra vxr - my last three cars. They're all st. Very fast, but not once did I feel an ounce of movement - they just gripped and went, wet or dry. To feel anything resembling excitement I had to be doing well over 100 on an A or B road, and even then it was more nervous fear of being caught...
The fiesta sized club is where to put your money these days if you want some fun, and aren't just buying to look like a man. I'm more interested in a potential new rs twingo tbh.
And 167mph. All that does is cost more in tyres... So it will be limited to 155mph. Guaranteed.
I've owned these "mid-sized" fast hatchbacks for 10 years now - the r26 and the breadvan type r were fantastic, because they were neutral, unassuming fun cars. But now there's nothing on the market that doesn't shout "w
ker". It's not the driver I'm talking about, it's the cars... They look like the car equivalent of a prick. Look how fast I am, look at my 19" alloy wheels (on a f
king hatch?!), look at my 2, 4, 6 exhausts with no noise coming out of them... It's boring. And then there's the real stter: they're not any fun. Mazda 3 MPS, original golf r, and an astra vxr - my last three cars. They're all st. Very fast, but not once did I feel an ounce of movement - they just gripped and went, wet or dry. To feel anything resembling excitement I had to be doing well over 100 on an A or B road, and even then it was more nervous fear of being caught... The fiesta sized club is where to put your money these days if you want some fun, and aren't just buying to look like a man. I'm more interested in a potential new rs twingo tbh.
And 167mph. All that does is cost more in tyres... So it will be limited to 155mph. Guaranteed.
sinbad666 said:
Ferrari, M3, M5, M6, Porsche, renault sport have all gone turbo instead of high revving NA. Yet there still selling in large numbers. Honda have been making turbo cars for decades, there F1 engine is a 1.6 turbo, and it would be stupid not to use that investment in tech to put on there road cars.
What the fk else are people going to drive if there's no n/a on sale?! Sign me up for crap engine response, low rev limits, pointless slugs of low torque and higher maintenance costs please! sinbad666 said:
What on paper don't you like... All we know is that it is FWD, 2.0 turbo, 19" alloys, 350mm brembo brakes, 167mph top speed.
100 orders isn't mich but given that no one seen the full car and opt the specs it's not bad either.
Looks like something out of fast & furious100 orders isn't mich but given that no one seen the full car and opt the specs it's not bad either.
Going to be around £30k too expensive
19" Wheels its a hatchback not a 4x4
Only revs to 7k
FWD when get 4WD or RWD for the same money
Not saying a bad car as such just they is nothing to differentiate it from the rivals stuff like the Golf R are very accomplished and well made and available for similar money same for the BMW not sure why people will go for this. I would have rather they had made it light and kept it n/a to set it apart from rivals.
Also new meganne due in 18 months (ish) and it will no doubt move the goal posts on from this anyway in terms of performance etc if you want fwd thrills...
Edited by greggy50 on Wednesday 11th February 11:31
greggy50 said:
Looks like something out of fast & furious
Going to be around £30k too expensive
Only revs to 7k lost point of a Honda
FWD when get 4WD or RWD for the same money
We don't know the price of the civic???Going to be around £30k too expensive
Only revs to 7k lost point of a Honda
FWD when get 4WD or RWD for the same money
The thing that people complained about before is that they had no torque and they didn't like they had to rev the engine and could get beat by a diesel... Now they've fixed that people are moaning lol
It might be a 7krpm fed turbo but it's not stopped other manufacturers selling there's.
rob.e said:
chrisABP said:
Looking closely at the tyres in the images they are labelled Continental and the size can be seen as 235/35x19
Doubt Honda would fit the superb Michelin Cup 2's for road use as very compromised in wet or cold weather but think it would need them for the lap-time. Maybe an option tyre...
yep, its what SEAT did.. fit super-sticky tyres for the lap and make them available as an expensive option that they know no-one will ever order.Doubt Honda would fit the superb Michelin Cup 2's for road use as very compromised in wet or cold weather but think it would need them for the lap-time. Maybe an option tyre...
Although i love type-Rs, i have to say that the long drawn out gestation of this iteration has been painful, and i fear that many of the target demographic may simply get bored of teasers and press- release hyperbole and just buy a cupra, or a golf R, or a 135i, or a 235i, or a focus RS, or a notimpreza etc etc..
Ford have done it right IMO. No real indication, then bam.... new GT and AWD Focus RS.
sinbad666 said:
We don't know the price of the civic???
The thing that people complained about before is that they had no torque and they didn't like they had to rev the engine and could get beat by a diesel... Now they've fixed that people are moaning lol
It might be a 7krpm fed turbo but it's not stopped other manufacturers selling there's.
Just an educated guess lots of time on development lots of different components to the normal car probably going to be a fairly limited seller so be amazed if much below £30k. The thing that people complained about before is that they had no torque and they didn't like they had to rev the engine and could get beat by a diesel... Now they've fixed that people are moaning lol
It might be a 7krpm fed turbo but it's not stopped other manufacturers selling there's.
I never complained about the engine before I thought the K20 was a masterpiece of an engine myself and separated the car out my going with the norm 4 pot turbo Honda is now entering a market full of very talented and well priced rivals.
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