RE: Honda Civic Type R - more details
Discussion
greggy50 said:
I think this civic will end up with about 320hp to be honest...
If does 167 on 280hp fair play but can't see it being the case I suspect when Renault set the ring record in the 275 they had to add a bit more power in to beat it on the ring which was the whole point of the car.
The Golf R is quoted as being able to do 168mph without the limiter with 296hp according to the VW development chief so suspect the leon would not be far behind that. The old focus RS would do 163mph with 300hp and that was quite a big heavy car so new one will probably be touching the 170mph mark as well.
Being slightly nerdy but weight doesnt have anywhere near as much effect on top speed as aero.If does 167 on 280hp fair play but can't see it being the case I suspect when Renault set the ring record in the 275 they had to add a bit more power in to beat it on the ring which was the whole point of the car.
The Golf R is quoted as being able to do 168mph without the limiter with 296hp according to the VW development chief so suspect the leon would not be far behind that. The old focus RS would do 163mph with 300hp and that was quite a big heavy car so new one will probably be touching the 170mph mark as well.
You'll find a 2 tonne car with 200bhp and 1 tonne car with 200bhp with the same aero/drag will have the same top speed give or take a few. The heavier car just taking longer to get there.
The Focus was a bit of a barn door to aero so a 160+ top end wasn't actually to bad.
DanielSan said:
Yes, Honda have never followed up with cars that look like the concept, apart from the FN2 Type R, and the new NSX just to name 2 of the most recent. Or indeed the s2000 concept...
SSM concept really didn't look much like the final S2000...thankfully!! I fully expect this to look like the black mule that's been around for a year or more. The front arch treatment is near identical.Limpet said:
Nothing ever lives up to this degree of hype in reality. I can't think of a single example of something that did. It's as much to do with setting expectations unrealistically as any real shortcomings in the product.
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Ali_T said:
DanielSan said:
Yes, Honda have never followed up with cars that look like the concept, apart from the FN2 Type R, and the new NSX just to name 2 of the most recent. Or indeed the s2000 concept...
SSM concept really didn't look much like the final S2000...thankfully!! I fully expect this to look like the black mule that's been around for a year or more. The front arch treatment is near identical.
Lower headlights aside it's pretty bloody close.
Crusoe said:
If you take the previous civic type R with a top speed of 141 for 200ish bhp you would need about 335bhp to make it go 167 mph. Going to need at least 300bhp I would think unless it is very low drag.
It's a 2 litre high tech turbo. It could easily have 400 very reliable horses, IF Honda want it to. knebworth01 said:
Sub £30k would be the right price for this car, if you're a Honda fan (which I am), it doesnt really have much competition:
• VAG Products - Yawwwwwnn. Pass me another body shell for that floorpan please Fritz..
• Renault - Good dynamics, rubbish quality.
• BMW M135i - Loads of power in a squishy chassis and looks like a converse boot.
• A Class AMG - Lovely motor, but in a different price bracket.
• Focus ST - Much the same as the Renault, only for people that wont buy a French motor.
If you want one of these nothing else will do.
The Renault will still run rings around it though, and in this market that is what counts.• VAG Products - Yawwwwwnn. Pass me another body shell for that floorpan please Fritz..
• Renault - Good dynamics, rubbish quality.
• BMW M135i - Loads of power in a squishy chassis and looks like a converse boot.
• A Class AMG - Lovely motor, but in a different price bracket.
• Focus ST - Much the same as the Renault, only for people that wont buy a French motor.
If you want one of these nothing else will do.
Adrian W said:
The Renault will still run rings around it though, and in this market that is what counts.
Suspect this will be quicker on track than the renault (just) but due to more power rather than better handling. I struggle to see how anyone could top the chassis of the 275 Trophy to be honest but it remains to be seen...It has to be quicker than the Renault on the ring or Honda are going to look like right f
king idiots! Thinking about it, maybe this is the ideal opportunity to get a whacking great turbo back on there and keep the Type-R identity?
Never mind chasing low down power and torque, put a huge monster on that doesn't spool till 3.5-4k put can flow up to ~8k kicking out loads of power as it does it. You get the high revving fun, a shed load of power and with a decent gearbox shouldn't be an issue on a track really?
Never mind chasing low down power and torque, put a huge monster on that doesn't spool till 3.5-4k put can flow up to ~8k kicking out loads of power as it does it. You get the high revving fun, a shed load of power and with a decent gearbox shouldn't be an issue on a track really?
Guvernator said:
I'm not sure who decreed that all turbocharged cars should drive like diesels, sure I know this easy low-mid end power has it's fans but a little choice would be great.
It's called downspeeding and is done for fuel economy reasons.Which is why the real world all b
h about poor fuel economy when they are changing gear at 3000 rpm when peak torque is available from 1500 rpm or less.Read - better fuel economy means we aren't getting shafted by various market entities for rubbish fleet CO2.
In any case, Honda have some of the best powertrain engineers on the planet at their disposal. It will be a good engine. Has there been a bad engine with the Type-R badge on it yet? No.
zeppelin101 said:
It's called downspeeding and is done for fuel economy reasons.
Which is why the real world all bh about poor fuel economy when they are changing gear at 3000 rpm when peak torque is available from 1500 rpm or less.
Read - better fuel economy means we aren't getting shafted by various market entities for rubbish fleet CO2.
In any case, Honda have some of the best powertrain engineers on the planet at their disposal. It will be a good engine. Has there been a bad engine with the Type-R badge on it yet? No.
Aren't the economy tests down at low revs anyway? So I don't see why some clever engineers couldn't have low revs mapped for fuel economy and then some sort of switch-over occurs at say 5000rpm to a different map\profile which gives you top end fizz. Sounds like a great idea, maybe they could call it Vtec, I wonder if it would catch on? Which is why the real world all b
h about poor fuel economy when they are changing gear at 3000 rpm when peak torque is available from 1500 rpm or less.Read - better fuel economy means we aren't getting shafted by various market entities for rubbish fleet CO2.
In any case, Honda have some of the best powertrain engineers on the planet at their disposal. It will be a good engine. Has there been a bad engine with the Type-R badge on it yet? No.
In all seriousness I know one of the main reasons they do it is because of emissions regs but I am sure Honda's engineers could come up with a solution similar to the above. The only reason why they don't is that apart from enthusiasts, everyone else seems to love the lazy modern turbo delivery. Even on Ph you hear comments like "why would I WANT to rev my car past 5000rpm" so with the general public you have no chance.
I think people are judging it way too much already! Let's wait and see the roadtests before we send it to an early grave. Yes it doesn't rev to 8/9k but name me a production car that does these days? Honda have had to change their old ways because that's the way the market is going, they want to sell cars to the target market.
But if it is around the 30k mark us there anyone who would seriously buy one of these above a Focus RS? The Focus will destroy it and a few mods and you will be at 400bhp with 4wd, the Civic will be too firm and will torque steer down your normal road surface in this country.
I reckon the RS and Megane will destroy it come group test time in the mags.
I reckon the RS and Megane will destroy it come group test time in the mags.
JDMDrifter said:
I think people are judging it way too much already! Let's wait and see the roadtests before we send it to an early grave. Yes it doesn't rev to 8/9k but name me a production car that does these days? Honda have had to change their old ways because that's the way the market is going, they want to sell cars to the target market.
Yes but I'd say the target market for the Type R more than any other hot hatch is firmly in the enthusiasts camp as lets face it, you don't by a Honda Type R for the soft touch plastics or to impress your posh neighbours with which is why I really hope they haven't toned it down too much in a bid to widen it's appeal. The last Type R was already a bit too watered down IMO. The Type R's were a unique proposition in what has become a fairly staid and anodyne hot hatch market (again IMO), I just hope Honda don't let it loose it's unique character. Look what happened to the latest Clio RS!sinbad666 said:
greggy50 said:
Don't get boast about the top speed I am sure FWD cars like the Leon 280 and the Astra VXR would do 160+ if it was for the limiters
The megane trophy 275 does 158mph unlimited, the civics 167mph with high downforce is still pretty Impressive. It's shows how good it's aero is and or how much power it's got. Going from 158 to 167 isn't very easy for something that has been touted as having between 280-300bhp. I cannot see any cars or if there is there's gery few sub 300bhp cars that can do over 165mphGassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff