Where are all the tiny hot hatches.
Discussion
aka_kerrly said:
s m said:
I was well over 30 when I got a new Saxo VTS - the insurance deal (2 years free ), discounts/trade in offer combined with the driving experience made it a much better deal than the 106 Gti and Puma 1.7 ( although I tried them )
I never paid a moments thought to the crash protection, but then, nor would I now
It wasn't meant as a dig, I remember it being a hell of a deal at the time.I never paid a moments thought to the crash protection, but then, nor would I now
My observation is that the tiny hatches that everyone remembers that are deemed flimsy don't weigh a huge amount less than the modern equivalents that meet the better standards whilst only sacrificing a bit in bhp/tonne.
The C2 VTS appears a barrel of laughs with similar performance range of the saxo/106 , although even that is a generation old now.
I did look at the C2 VTS when the time came to change the Saxo - it just didn't seem the same sort of thing. I think what you say is true to an extent though - nowadays, 150 kg more than the Saxo has gained more crash protection according to the tests ( although that wasn't really a buying point for me it is a welcome side-effect ), aircon, bit more economy but the same performance and still a bit of fun and handling from the driver's seat
quiraing said:
Not a tiny hot hatch but check out Simon McKinley white escort on youtube. I'd love ford ford to offer something like this.:-):-)
That things an animal. Think it would cost a few quid to replicate! 316hp, 810kg, first gear that will hit 63 mph so it will hit 60 in the low 3's!
Can imagine the motor in it is the best part of 20k to buy.
Hell of a machine and anyone who hasn't seen his YouTube video should make it their first port of call today.
curlie467 said:
quiraing said:
Not a tiny hot hatch but check out Simon McKinley white escort on youtube. I'd love ford ford to offer something like this.:-):-)
That things an animal. Think it would cost a few quid to replicate! 316hp, 810kg, first gear that will hit 63 mph so it will hit 60 in the low 3's!
Can imagine the motor in it is the best part of 20k to buy.
Hell of a machine and anyone who hasn't seen his YouTube video should make it their first port of call today.
People are obsessed with silly toys they don't need, heated/electric seats, electric mirrors, cruise control, xenons, etc, etc.
Image-obsessed muppets are more interested in the styling and colour of the car than the engineering & driving experience.
Safety requires airbags everywhere, impact bars, pretensioners, etc, etc.
Also acceptability levels for NVH are much lower than in the past.
No-one will make a small and lightweight hot hatch again, so the only solution is to buy the best 106/205GTI, Saxo VTS, Clio Williams, etc. you can find and keep it maintained and rustproofed.
Or buy a slighty more recent Clio 172/182, Suzuki Swift Sport, Panda 100hp or Suzuki Ignis Sport...
Image-obsessed muppets are more interested in the styling and colour of the car than the engineering & driving experience.
Safety requires airbags everywhere, impact bars, pretensioners, etc, etc.
Also acceptability levels for NVH are much lower than in the past.
No-one will make a small and lightweight hot hatch again, so the only solution is to buy the best 106/205GTI, Saxo VTS, Clio Williams, etc. you can find and keep it maintained and rustproofed.
Or buy a slighty more recent Clio 172/182, Suzuki Swift Sport, Panda 100hp or Suzuki Ignis Sport...
HairbearTE said:
I have thought of that. A friend drove a new one last year and said it was good. I'm not the worlds biggest ford fan but had an XR2 when I was 18 (many years ago..) That car was fun at the time. I just wish the manufacturers would do a basic stripped out version of all these cars for those who don't want an electric everything to play with.
a Fiesta ST1 is probably the nearest thing you can get to a 172 cup these days to be honest.HairbearTE said:
I just wish the manufacturers would do a basic stripped out version of all these cars for those who don't want an electric everything to play with.
Totally agree. I have just ordered a new car and have not ticked any of the options boxes as I don't need electric heated seats, reverse sensors, sat nav, improved audio etc.Keeps the price down but still great to drive, which is what I prefer to do, not press buttons.
croyde said:
Totally agree. I have just ordered a new car and have not ticked any of the options boxes as I don't need electric heated seats, reverse sensors, sat nav, improved audio etc.
Keeps the price down but still great to drive, which is what I prefer to do, not press buttons.
Last year, I almost ordered myself a brand new Mini JCW convertible. I ticked every available extra and got the price to almost £28k. I was quite excited at the prospect of having all of those 'toys'.Keeps the price down but still great to drive, which is what I prefer to do, not press buttons.
But then I thought about it. What happens when I tire of the (mostly useless) toys, and realise that, what really matters is the way the car drives and makes you feel - this, after all, is the main reason we buy such cars, isn't it?
As excited as I was at the prospect of buying myself another brand new car with every up-to-date extra imaginable (for me, at least), I knew I would tire of it, and all that money simply wasn't worth it. I bought another TVR instead and spent the same amount on getting that perfect - powerful, simple, light and, above all, fun, and put a huge smile on my face every time I drive it. For me, that is the important part - optional extras lose their lustre very quickly.
chris watton said:
Last year, I almost ordered myself a brand new Mini JCW convertible. I ticked every available extra and got the price to almost £28k. I was quite excited at the prospect of having all of those 'toys'.
But then I thought about it. What happens when I tire of the (mostly useless) toys, and realise that, what really matters is the way the car drives and makes you feel - this, after all, is the main reason we buy such cars, isn't it?
As excited as I was at the prospect of buying myself another brand new car with every up-to-date extra imaginable (for me, at least), I knew I would tire of it, and all that money simply wasn't worth it. I bought another TVR instead and spent the same amount on getting that perfect - powerful, simple, light and, above all, fun, and put a huge smile on my face every time I drive it. For me, that is the important part - optional extras lose their lustre very quickly.
Yep! the toys I'd play with in the first few days of ownership, with the help of the hand book, then would be forgotten about.But then I thought about it. What happens when I tire of the (mostly useless) toys, and realise that, what really matters is the way the car drives and makes you feel - this, after all, is the main reason we buy such cars, isn't it?
As excited as I was at the prospect of buying myself another brand new car with every up-to-date extra imaginable (for me, at least), I knew I would tire of it, and all that money simply wasn't worth it. I bought another TVR instead and spent the same amount on getting that perfect - powerful, simple, light and, above all, fun, and put a huge smile on my face every time I drive it. For me, that is the important part - optional extras lose their lustre very quickly.
croyde said:
Totally agree. I have just ordered a new car and have not ticked any of the options boxes as I don't need electric heated seats, reverse sensors, sat nav, improved audio etc.
Keeps the price down but still great to drive, which is what I prefer to do, not press buttons.
I'd buy a stripped out car if one were available. The toys are just for showroom appeal and are mostly forgotten about when driving the car.Keeps the price down but still great to drive, which is what I prefer to do, not press buttons.
I've bought a 21 year old car with just electric windows/mirrors, no aircon, cruise, trip computer, heated seats, airbags or any of that other crap.
It's still too complicated though as it has an electric sunroof, exhaust catalysts and a DMF, all of which I'd rather weren't there...
BGarside said:
People are obsessed with silly toys they don't need, heated/electric seats, electric mirrors, cruise control, xenons, etc, etc.
Image-obsessed muppets are more interested in the styling and colour of the car than the engineering & driving experience.
Safety requires airbags everywhere, impact bars, pretensioners, etc, etc.
Also acceptability levels for NVH are much lower than in the past.
No-one will make a small and lightweight hot hatch again, so the only solution is to buy the best 106/205GTI, Saxo VTS, Clio Williams, etc. you can find and keep it maintained and rustproofed.
Or buy a slighty more recent Clio 172/182, Suzuki Swift Sport, Panda 100hp or Suzuki Ignis Sport...
Having just got into hot hatches at the tender age of 41 ( clio 172 cup) if i was looking now i think i'd go for a clio trophy as there only going to increase in value.Image-obsessed muppets are more interested in the styling and colour of the car than the engineering & driving experience.
Safety requires airbags everywhere, impact bars, pretensioners, etc, etc.
Also acceptability levels for NVH are much lower than in the past.
No-one will make a small and lightweight hot hatch again, so the only solution is to buy the best 106/205GTI, Saxo VTS, Clio Williams, etc. you can find and keep it maintained and rustproofed.
Or buy a slighty more recent Clio 172/182, Suzuki Swift Sport, Panda 100hp or Suzuki Ignis Sport...
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