Where are all the tiny hot hatches.
Discussion
hoppo4.2 said:
EnthusiastOwned said:
Needs about another 50 or so bhp. RumbleOfThunder said:
Dan Friel said:
I've just moved from a panda 100hp to a fiesta red edition (just over 1000kg and 140bhp).. Both are really good cars.
I do like the Fiesta Red and Black editions but think they're more like the 1300kg mark.I agree on the C1/107/Aygo, they missed a trick there btu I dont think 200 bhp as per the OP would be a good idea, sure it would be fast but I dont think the rest of the car is up to it, I think that maybe 100 - 110 bhp with sensible gear ratios and other changes would be plenty, the original Golf GTi managed with 110 bhp, 200 bhp would overwhelm it or necessitate a ground up redesign where another 30 - 40 bhp could probably be accounted for.
egor110 said:
HairbearTE said:
I'm having a terrible time trying to find a new car I like. My daily driver is a clio 172cup (172hp, 1010kg) that I bought new 12 years ago. I'm now looking for a new car and am really struggling to find anything that appeals to me at all. WRX STI, Astra VXR, Golf R are what I'm looking at now but all are porkers compared to the cup. I like the sound of the STI because it has been described in many reviews as "old school", although the 2.5 engine has a bad rep. Golf looks good but easy to option it up to £35k which I don't really want to do. Astra VXR has mech diff, 280hp and can easily be found for way under list price (23k for black one with Aero pack), but where are all the SMALL, genuinely quick cars now? so sad.
What about the new fiesta st?GroundEffect said:
1070kg from the data I can find. Even say 1100kg, it's got a meaty torque curve so it'll feel more than adequate.
Yes, can confirm that it's a fun drive. If the standard power isn't enough, mountune will be bringing an upgrade out this year which will take the power over 150bhp.BGarside said:
People are obsessed with silly toys they don't need, heated/electric seats, electric mirrors, cruise control, xenons, etc, etc.
Image-obsessed muppets are more interested in the styling and colour of the car than the engineering & driving experience.
Safety requires airbags everywhere, impact bars, pretensioners, etc, etc.
Also acceptability levels for NVH are much lower than in the past.
No-one will make a small and lightweight hot hatch again, so the only solution is to buy the best 106/205GTI, Saxo VTS, Clio Williams, etc. you can find and keep it maintained and rustproofed.
Or buy a slighty more recent Clio 172/182, Suzuki Swift Sport, Panda 100hp or Suzuki Ignis Sport...
My priority when buying the Fiesta was the driving experience, but I wouldn't call xenons and heated seats 'silly toys'.Image-obsessed muppets are more interested in the styling and colour of the car than the engineering & driving experience.
Safety requires airbags everywhere, impact bars, pretensioners, etc, etc.
Also acceptability levels for NVH are much lower than in the past.
No-one will make a small and lightweight hot hatch again, so the only solution is to buy the best 106/205GTI, Saxo VTS, Clio Williams, etc. you can find and keep it maintained and rustproofed.
Or buy a slighty more recent Clio 172/182, Suzuki Swift Sport, Panda 100hp or Suzuki Ignis Sport...
The weight of modern cars is a constant PH whinge, however, it's interesting to note how much a Clio Williams or 306 GTi 6 actually weigh.. Given that mpg and emissions are so important, manufacturers aren't in the business of making heavy cars for the sake of it, and the new batch of hatches are not "obese". Plus there are some decent engines on offer now.
Dan Friel said:
The weight of modern cars is a constant PH whinge, however, it's interesting to note how much a Clio Williams or 306 GTi 6 actually weigh.. Given that mpg and emissions are so important, manufacturers aren't in the business of making heavy cars for the sake of it, and the new batch of hatches are not "obese". Plus there are some decent engines on offer now.
There's 200kg between the weight of those 2 though isn't there? A 306 Gti-6 was basically the same weight as a 2.8 litre Sierra whereas the Clio was much lighters m said:
There's 200kg between the weight of those 2 though isn't there? A 306 Gti-6 was basically the same weight as a 2.8 litre Sierra whereas the Clio was much lighter
The Williams 2 & 3 put on weight but I think the 3 is the only one that may have tipped over the magic tonne.150bhp, NA in less than 1,000kg 'feels' right to me for a back road blaster, which is why I love mine so much!
BritishRacinGrin said:
There's been a couple of mentions of hot Clios and the reluctance of consumers to buy truly basic cars and therefore reluctance of manufacturers to offer them.
This got me thinking about Dacia.
Dacia hopes it's niche will be providing a basic cheap car to consumers who don't want the fripperies of mainstream cars. Wouldn't it be great if Dacia could rock up with a small hatch (smaller than the Sandero), packed full of Clio / Twingo parts bin parts and a range of engines including the renaultsport 2.0L, and market it at less than ten grand?
Yes please 200 horses n/a and sub 1000kg under 10k with a nod to renaultsports r26r with a limited run with more grunt and some track goodies for say £13000This got me thinking about Dacia.
Dacia hopes it's niche will be providing a basic cheap car to consumers who don't want the fripperies of mainstream cars. Wouldn't it be great if Dacia could rock up with a small hatch (smaller than the Sandero), packed full of Clio / Twingo parts bin parts and a range of engines including the renaultsport 2.0L, and market it at less than ten grand?
BritishRacinGrin said:
There's been a couple of mentions of hot Clios and the reluctance of consumers to buy truly basic cars and therefore reluctance of manufacturers to offer them.
This got me thinking about Dacia.
Dacia hopes it's niche will be providing a basic cheap car to consumers who don't want the fripperies of mainstream cars. Wouldn't it be great if Dacia could rock up with a small hatch (smaller than the Sandero), packed full of Clio / Twingo parts bin parts and a range of engines including the renaultsport 2.0L, and market it at less than ten grand?
Yes please 200 horses n/a and sub 1000kg under 10k with a nod to renaultsports r26r with a limited run with more grunt and some track goodies for say £13000This got me thinking about Dacia.
Dacia hopes it's niche will be providing a basic cheap car to consumers who don't want the fripperies of mainstream cars. Wouldn't it be great if Dacia could rock up with a small hatch (smaller than the Sandero), packed full of Clio / Twingo parts bin parts and a range of engines including the renaultsport 2.0L, and market it at less than ten grand?
Skyedriver said:
Something light and under 1400cc please?
Looking for a cheap production road going hillclimb car up to 1400
Have talked about the Panda as a possibility...
If running in a "standard" class, the panda would be just about competitive, but if running in "road production" it can't be.. You're running against minis that weigh under 700kg and could have 130bhp! You can't get more power out of the fire engine. But, the panda is a fun hillclimb car, and on the right day it can surprise people (I have a couple of trophies to prove it!).Looking for a cheap production road going hillclimb car up to 1400
Have talked about the Panda as a possibility...
s m said:
Dan Friel said:
The weight of modern cars is a constant PH whinge, however, it's interesting to note how much a Clio Williams or 306 GTi 6 actually weigh.. Given that mpg and emissions are so important, manufacturers aren't in the business of making heavy cars for the sake of it, and the new batch of hatches are not "obese". Plus there are some decent engines on offer now.
There's 200kg between the weight of those 2 though isn't there? A 306 Gti-6 was basically the same weight as a 2.8 litre Sierra whereas the Clio was much lighterdom9 said:
The Williams 2 & 3 put on weight but I think the 3 is the only one that may have tipped over the magic tonne.
150bhp, NA in less than 1,000kg 'feels' right to me for a back road blaster, which is why I love mine so much!
150bhp, NA in less than 1,000kg 'feels' right to me for a back road blaster, which is why I love mine so much!
They both drive well but the 306 wasn't particularly light - quite a few new hatches are similar or better performance and a fair bit lighter, all with 6-speed gearboxes and aircon
neil1jnr said:
y priority when buying the Fiesta was the driving experience, but I wouldn't call xenons and heated seats 'silly toys'.
Heated seats are hardly important in most of the UK most of the time."Dipped" Xenons are a pain to oncoming drivers.
-Halogen headlights plus additional driving lamps (that might be HID) are the way forward.
BritishRacinGrin said:
There's been a couple of mentions of hot Clios and the reluctance of consumers to buy truly basic cars and therefore reluctance of manufacturers to offer them.
This got me thinking about Dacia.
Dacia hopes it's niche will be providing a basic cheap car to consumers who don't want the fripperies of mainstream cars. Wouldn't it be great if Dacia could rock up with a small hatch (smaller than the Sandero), packed full of Clio / Twingo parts bin parts and a range of engines including the renaultsport 2.0L, and market it at less than ten grand?
They will be releasing the 'old' Twingo rebadged in 2016, but no mention of anything 'hot'. Though there is rumour of a hot Sandero due to be shown at Geneva.This got me thinking about Dacia.
Dacia hopes it's niche will be providing a basic cheap car to consumers who don't want the fripperies of mainstream cars. Wouldn't it be great if Dacia could rock up with a small hatch (smaller than the Sandero), packed full of Clio / Twingo parts bin parts and a range of engines including the renaultsport 2.0L, and market it at less than ten grand?
sidaorb said:
BritishRacinGrin said:
There's been a couple of mentions of hot Clios and the reluctance of consumers to buy truly basic cars and therefore reluctance of manufacturers to offer them.
This got me thinking about Dacia.
Dacia hopes it's niche will be providing a basic cheap car to consumers who don't want the fripperies of mainstream cars. Wouldn't it be great if Dacia could rock up with a small hatch (smaller than the Sandero), packed full of Clio / Twingo parts bin parts and a range of engines including the renaultsport 2.0L, and market it at less than ten grand?
They will be releasing the 'old' Twingo rebadged in 2016, but no mention of anything 'hot'. Though there is rumour of a hot Sandero due to be shown at Geneva.This got me thinking about Dacia.
Dacia hopes it's niche will be providing a basic cheap car to consumers who don't want the fripperies of mainstream cars. Wouldn't it be great if Dacia could rock up with a small hatch (smaller than the Sandero), packed full of Clio / Twingo parts bin parts and a range of engines including the renaultsport 2.0L, and market it at less than ten grand?
The old 1.2 TCE was lighter by 100kg but not exactly 'hot' in performance
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